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Pure Speculation, is Ted Ginn expendable?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Pure speculation on my part, but I'd like to hear what my fellow finfans think.


    Ted Ginn is still a raw WR with loads of physical talent, but a bit on the smallish side, we are rumored to be close to signing Terry Glenn, and we have Ernest Wilford, that leaves Ted Ginn in limbo as a WR.

    Ted's value then shifts to returning kicks and punts, he was a back up pro bowler in that roll last year with no decent special teams unit to speak of.

    That is a seeming plus for Ginn, but wait a minute, Sparano in his latest press conference mentioned that he wanted to see other players returning kicks, guys like Dave Kircus, Devone Bess and Jayson Foster, two UDFA's and small signing of a Free Agent Wr/Kick Returner.

    Now what happens if Bess or Foster return kicks as well as Ginn could be expected to in the preseason? Would Tuna and Friends then shop Ginn around to teams that are starving at Wr, in the hope of netting another #1 pick for a player whose near value to the team is minimal?

    Granted it is doubtful we would get a #9 in return for Ted Ginn, but if an offer is attractive, say #15-25, could Ted Ginn be traded and Bess or Hagan take over the #3 Wr slot, and Bess or Foster take over the kick returning duties?
     
  2. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Terry Glenn isn't very dependable, I don't think that'll happen.
     
  3. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    no, he is not..
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Somewhat true, if we traded Ginn, that would only mean that Hagan moves into the starting line up, and Bess or Foster or Kircus takes the #3 slot.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He is not expendable when being switched out for Terry Glenn
     
  6. bkbuffet

    bkbuffet Season Ticket Holder

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    Glenn would be a temp thing. He is getting up there in years and his knees appear to be going fast, if there is anything left (still has yet to pass a physical). Ginn is young and has not yet reached his full potential.

    I'm not even remotely concerned this is a possibility.
     
  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No. First off, if Glenn is brought in, it's to be a stopgap until Ted develops. Glenn, is two years TOPs, if that. Woohoo that matches WRs 3 years to develop mantra.

    Sparano wants to see others return kicks, because, well we don't know why but we can guess. First, maybe he thinks Ted is going to get a lot of playtime at WR. Don't want to tire him out. Two, insurance, what if he gets injured. THey want to know what they got before that.

    And lastly, Sparano just said, if he's the best at it, he's going to be doing it. He said this earlier this week. I'm not sure Sparano said he wants to see them returning kicks during gametime during the season, or gametime during pre-season.
     
  8. Jackson

    Jackson Bruce Banner

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    No, not expendable.. Here is some quotes about his development from the coaching staff.. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2008/07/30/a1c_ginn_0731.html
    He has become the star pupil of receivers coach Karl Dorrell, a former receiver himself at UCLA who has seen Ginn begin to tap into his talents.

    Dorrell said since the first voluntary practice of the spring, Ginn has grown tremendously, running better routes, showing more quickness during his routes and making cuts that gets defensive backs on their heels.

    "And that's usually the hardest thing to improve because he's moving so fast," Dorrell said. "But he's one of those guys that has really good balance."

    "Teddy is starting to play really fast and he's putting pressure on the defense, and I really like that," Sparano said. "You can see it. It's jumping off the film how fast he's playing."
     
  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Glenn has what maybe 1-2 years left? Hes old and beat up so thats obviously not a longterm answer. Wilford hasnt been all that impressive. To be honest, all Wilford is is a big redzone target. He doesn't have a lot of speed and isn't a phenominal route runner. Just a big target with decent hands who uses his size well.

    Ginn will be our number 1 this year or next. I don't see how his size is an issue. Steve Smith agrees.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Does Parcells have the same mantra?

    Why wait two more years for a guy develop when his highest value is right now?


    Maybe, or the idea of a #1 for a Wr that may not start for us makes looking for another KR a priority?

    Jdang, never, never, never, take what the current staff say at face value, for example "Jason Taylor will play for the..."
     
  11. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I would probably include us in that group of WR starved teams. Wilford hasn't looked great thus far. Hagan has looked good but he has a history of looking good in camp and then disappearing.

    As for Ginn, he is also important as a threat to the defense. He's probably the only guy on the team with the ability to make those Safeties back away from the line. That's a very important thing to have in the run heavy offense we expect to feature.

    I also wouldn't assume that anybody will be as good of a returner as Ginn. I really want to see what he could do behind a decent return unit. I think he may have the ability to be special.

    In summary, I don't think TG is expendable at this time.
     
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  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We will be a running team this season, the best blocking Wr "may" have an edge, Glenn is a better blocker then Ginn, and the Kick Returning duties could be the key to the whole thing.
     
  13. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Despite the possible acquisition of Terry Glenn, I believe that Ginn will still maintain a starting spot on this team. He's an electrifying player and received praise from Sparano only a day ago. Sparano said that the game is starting to slow down for Ginn and he is adjusting to the level of play. Also, he improved over the weeks.

    Sparano stated that whenever you have a player that can do things that Ginn can do, you want to use those opportunities. You want to use the players that are the best at positions according to Sparano.

    As for Foster, Kircus and Bess, I think the coaching staff is seeing what they have in them. Kircus and Foster aren't likely to make the 53 man roster imo so they are seeing what they can do versatility wise. If Ginn was to go down, I think you would see Bess in there returning the kicks and I think that's one of the reasons he is being tried out at that spot.

    If they return kicks as well as Ginn, then its a positive for this team imo. We know that if Ginn was to go down, we can move one of the guys into that spot. If they want Ginn to focus on his original position then we can move those guys in his spot. I don't see Foster making the team as I think he provides the same thing as Ginn. Ginn is being paid millions and was a high draft pick, opposed to Foster who can do the same as Ginn and will only be taking up a roster space on the 53 man roster. JMO.

    There was rumors early in the off-season that Ginn was being shopped around by the front office. There was even a rumor saying he could go to Dallas for Roy Williams and/or Bobby Carpenter as the main prizes of the trade. I would be surprised to see us move Ginn despite the possible addition of Glenn. Glenn will here no longer than say two years. Glenn is 34 years old and has had two knee operations in the last year I believe. While I do think that Glenn is a contributor and may take some time away from our young receivers such as Ginn, I don't see him being here in the long haul as stated in the previous sentence.

    I think if we do move Ginn, it won't be for a first rounder. He has potential and can contribute in several areas on the field but nowadays, players for first rounders are hard to come by. I could see a second rounder being given for him if he was to be moved.

    I can't see him being moved because of the receiving core still not great. Hagan has been impressive this off-season and has the ability to be a good number two on our team but he has been impressive in the past around this time and did not show up on Sundays. Glenn is 34 and won't be here for the long haul. Wilford has struggled beating defenders this Training Camp and we don't know how he will pan out for us this season. He isn't the fastest player (running a 4.79 forty) so he may have trouble with the top tier CB's in this league and that worries me. I'm not sure if he can be a number one or two for us. Also, if they were to move Ginn, our core would be mediocre if it isn't already. Ireland has stated that he wants to add receivers to the team and moving Ginn wouldn't help that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
  14. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Isn't that what you just did in your original post? Isn't that what brought you here?

    I didn't mean that to take it as face value of what they're saying (but your attributing a comment by Bill to Sparano, who so far has said the truth, i.e. JT will NOT be here during offseason, training camp, etc.) but I just provided that as a counterexample to your infererence of his PC statements. :up:
     
  15. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I apologize if I repeated any of your comments in my post. When I started writing it, there were no replies lol. Didn't know I type so slow. :lol:
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We are recevier starved, and yet, would anyone here trade next season's #1 pick for Ted Ginn?

    I ask because if another team will, we would have to consider it.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    All the while though JT was on the trading block.

    Sparano also does not make the trades, Tuna and to a lesser extent Ireland do, if they traded Ginn for a #1 in rebuilding year, we would only be that much more strongly positioned in Draft 09, when everything shakes out this season.
     
  18. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    the cap hit alone would stop us from trading him.
     
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  19. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    If someone offers us a Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams, Anquan Boldin, Marques Colston, sure.
     
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  20. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    hell i'd help ginn pack his bags in that case.
     
  21. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    If someone is offering us a first for Ginn, I say we first look to who will be in next years draft class. If there are receivers possibly worthy of that pick, I say make the deal. If not, keep it. Taking Ginn away from this team won't help the young QB's that we have.
     
  22. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    I can name about 15 WR's I'd ship Ginn out in a Fedex crate for. Maybe about 25-30 I could maybe think about it.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, the thing to keep in mind is that Tuna NEVER drafts a Wr in rd #1 during a rebuild, granted he broke his pattern with Big Jake Long, but typically they tend to "make do" at wr in favor of LB's and CB's.

    Availability of a WR in rd #1 next year would not be much of a factor in this scenario.
     
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  24. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    micheal crabtree comes to mind. but i doubt anyones going to offering a 1st for ginn.
     
  25. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    That's a good point, I didn't think about Parcells draft history. Sparano and Ireland also have a say in the drafting as Sparano says they will be working together, all three of them. My worry is that if we do move him for a first, will there be a guy next year that can do what Ginn can for us? I'm not sure of that. It would be something to really think about.

    That's what I was thinking as well.
     
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  26. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Jake Long's a WR? I don't think he really broke his pattern there. :lol:

    Honestly, I wish he'd draft a WR in the first round instead of being forced to like in the Terry Glenn case.
     
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  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And that thought is part of the reason for this thread, we have tons of needs, and a #1 for a Wr who may be our #2, or #3 would be tough to pass up.

    For me the only hold up would be not wanting to leave Sparano with no gamebreakers his first year as a HC.

    But who knows, maybe Foster will really shine at Returning Kicks?
     
  28. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    You aren't familiar with Crabtree?
     
  29. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    red-shirt freshman last season. he led the NCAA in every receiving catagory. Plays for Texas Tech.
     
  30. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    I'd have thought Parcells learned from Terry Glenn that a WR can be productive for him but he still refuses to land a marquee WR. Jerry Jones had to force TO on him and look at the results now. We need a dynamic 6'2 and up threat with decent speed to help break-in a QB.
     
  31. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Haha.

    No problem, just asking. Very good player. JT said basically what I was going to say.
     
  32. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    Who are these teams that are offering their #1 receiver for Ginn? i missed the memo.
     
  33. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I believe he is speaking hypothetically.
     
  34. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    You haven't seen long take a screen pass? Hes unstoppable.
     
  35. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    :lol:
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And that his the rub that could make a deal even conceivable, Ginn hasn't proven a thing, he looked good last year, if such a trade were not made "soon" then we would have to wait and see if Ginn develops.

    By trading Ginn, we would trade the risk of non development to a different team and add picks in the process.
     
  37. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    i say we just trade every young player we have for a pick next year, then we wouldnt have to wait for them to develop.

    And then we could trade those players for picks too!
     
  38. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    But you also risk that he blossoms and becomes a playmaker that you could have had on your team. Instead, you dealt him for a draft pick that you don't know how will it pan out.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That would be the pure speculation part JT#1, for such a trade to happen a team like the packers or texans would have to suffer a loss due to injury at Wr.
     
  40. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Then it just comes down to whether you think he can blossom. I don't know if I can expect anything more than sub-1000 yard performance out of Ginn who'll likely be just a home-run hitter type of WR IMO. The inconsistent game to game type that fantasy owners avoid. Because if he doesn't run spectacular routes every game, he doesn't have size in his corner and speed deteriorates with age.
     

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