Questions still remain at QB

"Bumrush wrote:

Of course, you are not taking a position on anything tangible. Circular arguments that can't be "proven" until you've determined that we have "competent line play"

We have a Pro Bowl Center, a Pro Bowl Left Tackle and Billy Turner who has been trending upwards weekly. The team also invested a first round pick in a RT that has played a majority of the season.

When will you determine that we have "competent line play?" What criteria will you use? If you determine that we have "competent line play" and Ryan continues to struggle, what timeframe will you give him to adjust to the competent line play? A year? Two years?

Also, what is competent line play?

Blah, blah, blah, bull ****, bull ****, bull ****.

Has the oline been competent, yes or no?

And btw, to your last post to me and this one:

"Fin D wrote:

The argument is tired because we constantly have to make it because you guys pretend it's not really an issue.

Still waiting for someone to give me an example of a qb thriving with a crap oline, crap OC, easily abandoned running game and he's not allowed to audible out of the play.

That's from this thread. I think it clearly illustrates I don't blame it all on the oline (nor do I assume that Tannehill is the only QB with a bad oline) but it also lays out my "non tangible" stance.

"Fin D wrote:

Blah, blah, blah, bull ****, bull ****, bull ****.

Has the oline been competent, yes or no?

4.9 yards per carry, 3rd in the NFL.

In the running game, the stats (and facts) show that they can run block.

On that measure alone they are competent.

Is the NE line competent? You know the group of castoffs and practice squad players that somehow are a part of a team that is 10-0?

"Fin D wrote:

The oline affects his play. Perfectly valid to discuss it here.

Someone brought up a post about why Tannehill does X in Y situations. The answer is poor play by the oline. Perfectly valid discussion.

As for your bs about "no one is blaming only Tannehill" crap...read these:

Please tell me where they blame of any percentage to anyone other Tannehill? These are just the first two examples of the literally hundreds on this site btw.

Now before you start Fin-O'ing all over the place, you claim I'm not blaming Tannehill for anything because I didn't explicitly say he's doing anything wrong. So if that is true, then these examples are valid illustrations of my claim, because they don't explicitly say anyone else is too blame.

This is called a pickle. You are in one.

They are talking Tannehill stats in a Tannehill thread....I guess you not understanding why doesn't shock me.

You have fought for this Qb, and its not looking good. Admit that and avoid grasping for straws.

"Fin D wrote:

Blah, blah, blah, bull ****, bull ****, bull ****.

Has the oline been competent, yes or no?

And btw, to your last post to me and this one:

That's from this thread. I think it clearly illustrates I don't blame it all on the oline (nor do I assume that Tannehill is the only QB with a bad oline) but it also lays out my "non tangible" stance.

Crap olines and crap OC's are byproduct of crap QB's too. For all you know our golden boy Lazor could have been a superstar coach in this league with the right coaching staff and QB in place.

"Fin-O wrote:

They are talking Tannehill stats in a Tannehill thread....I guess you not understanding why doesn't shock me.

You have fought for this Qb, and its not looking good. Admit that and avoid grasping for straws.

I see. This is now you're new rule.

Ok, I'll hold you to it going forward. I hope you're prepared to be held to the literal thread title going forward.

"Bumrush wrote:

Crap olines and crap OC's are byproduct of crap QB's too. For all you know our golden boy Lazor could have been a superstar coach in this league with the right coaching staff and QB in place.

Yes, this is the "chicken or the egg" situation that you're implying it is.

Sigh.

"Fin D wrote:

I see. This is now you're new rule.

Ok, I'll hold you to it going forward. I hope you're prepared to be held to the literal thread title going forward.

You're a weird guy Ace..

"Bumrush wrote:

4.9 yards per carry, 3rd in the NFL.

In the running game, the stats (and facts) show that they can run block.

On that measure alone they are competent.

Is the NE line competent? You know the group of castoffs and practice squad players that somehow are a part of a team that is 10-0?

This is where I think there is a disconnect between stats and reality. Miller makes amazing gains from his own effort, which inflates that ypc. A lot of our first and second downs involve 0-2 yard gains, which then puts us in ****ty third down situations. This blame is on the line to be honest. Stats lie, and lie well.

"Bumrush wrote:

4.9 yards per carry, 3rd in the NFL.

In the running game, the stats (and facts) show that they can run block.

On that measure alone they are competent.

Is the NE line competent? You know the group of castoffs and practice squad players that somehow are a part of a team that is 10-0?

hahahahahahahaha

You're really using running stats to illustrate an oline is competent in pass blocking?

I love how every anti-Tannehill poster likes to use Albert as a reason that our oline is fine.

Except ALBERT has singlehandedly been THE BIGGEST PROBLEM with our line. Because he can't stay healthy, we begin shuffling our garbage in.

"Fin D wrote:

hahahahahahahaha

You're really using running stats to illustrate an oline is competent in pass blocking?

Why don't you answer a few questions yourself...

1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself?
2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB?
3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb?
4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward?

"Fin-O wrote:

Why don't you answer a few questions yourself...

1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself?
2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB?
3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb?
4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward?

I wanna play.
1) Yes.(but also has not made strides in his own deficiencies so the poor play of the OL is exaggerated) Also impossible to guess without knowing what goes on in house.
2) No.
3) No.
4) POCKET PRESSENCE! ( this would shoot him into top 10 IMO)

"Wildcat23 wrote:

I wanna play.
1) Yes. Also impossible to guess without knowing what goes on in house.
2) No.
3) No.
4) POCKET PRESSENCE! ( this would shoot him into top 10 IMO)

Fair.

"Wildcat23 wrote:

I wanna play.
1) Yes.(but also has not made strides in his own deficiencies so the poor play of the OL is exaggerated) Also impossible to guess without knowing what goes on in house.
2) No.
3) No.
4) POCKET PRESSENCE! ( this would shoot him into top 10 IMO)

4) POCKET PRESSENCE! ( this would shoot him into top 10 IMO)'

Is that something that can be learned with the proper coaching?

"Fin-O wrote:

Why don't you answer a few questions yourself...

1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself?
2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB?
3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb?
4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward?

Ok, I answered them for myself.

Also, #1 is apparently not appropriate for this thread. You should remove it.

"Fin D wrote:

Ok, I answered them for myself.

Also, #1 is apparently not appropriate for this thread. You should remove it.

Based on your previous responses I'll take a shot at it for you.
1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself? 75% OL, 24% OC, 1% RT
2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB? I don't know, but he did have a 4 game stretch last year where he looked like one and with a "competent" OL he can be "above average" and possibly a franchise QB.
3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb? See question 2
4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward? His OL and OC.

"Fin D wrote:

Ok, I answered them for myself.

Also, #1 is apparently not appropriate for this thread. You should remove it.

4.) If someone looks like a goofball, but doesn't THINK they are a goofball?? Are they a goofball?

Critical question to determine if you have any self awareness.

"bumrush wrote:

based on your previous responses i'll take a shot at it for you.
1.) do you think the reason ryan has struggled is his ol and oc? If so what % would you guesstimate is on ryan himself? 75% ol, 24% oc, 1% rt
2.) do you think as of today ryan is a franchise qb? i don't know, but he did have a 4 game stretch last year where he looked like one and with a "competent" ol he can be "above average" and possibly a franchise qb.
3.) do you think ryan is a top 10qb? see question 2
4.) what would you like to see ryan improve on going forward? his ol and oc.

Bam!

"Fin-O wrote:

4.) If someone looks like a goofball, but doesn't THINK they are a goofball?? Are they a goofball?

Critical question to determine if you have any self awareness.

FinD is painted into a corner as more and more people realize that Tannehill is part of the problem.
He will come around. After the third game of this season he finally realized that Coach Philbin was part of the problem and supported his firing after defending him as staunchly all offseason and through our late season collapse last year.

With that being said I HOPE that FinD is 10000000% correct on every point and that Ryan evolves in a to a great QB. IMHO the odds are low that he'll suddenly have NFL caliber awareness to match his amazing arm, tenacity and professionalism.

"Bumrush wrote:

Based on your previous responses I'll take a shot at it for you.
1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself? 75% OL, 24% OC, 1% RT
2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB? I don't know, but he did have a 4 game stretch last year where he looked like one and with a "competent" OL he can be "above average" and possibly a franchise QB.
3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb? See question 2
4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward? His OL and OC.

It doesn't matter if or what you got correct. You, like the rest of the Haters don't really apy attention anyway. I've answered each of these questions numerous times. I've answered them numerous times to Fin-O directly.

Doesn't matter though, you guys just keep making stuff up anyway.

"Bumrush wrote:

FinD is painted into a corner as more and more people realize that Tannehill is part of the problem.
He will come around. After the third game of this season he finally realized that Coach Philbin was part of the problem and supported his firing after defending him as staunchly all offseason and through our late season collapse last year.

With that being said I HOPE that FinD is 10000000% correct on every point and that Ryan evolves in a to a great QB.

Ryan already is a great QB, if his OL and OC and Wrs would just play better we would have Tom Brady 2.0 on our hands.

"Fin-O wrote:

4.) If someone looks like a goofball, but doesn't THINK they are a goofball?? Are they a goofball?

Critical question to determine if you have any self awareness.

You asked me to answer those questions for myself. I did.
You assumed I never answered those questions to you, the board or myself before. You're wrong.
You did in fact, just get done telling me the oline affecting Tannehill's play has no place in this thread. So, I pointed out you probably shouldn't a couple of posts later ask me about the oline in the same Tannehill thread.

So, that "someone" should be yourself.

"Fin D wrote:

You asked me to answer those questions for myself. I did.
You assumed I never answered those questions to you, the board or myself before. You're wrong.
You did in fact, just get done telling me the oline affecting Tannehill's play has no place in this thread. So, I pointed out you probably shouldn't a couple of posts later ask me about the oline in the same Tannehill thread.

So, that "someone" should be yourself.

You would've looked a lot less of a clown had you just answered the questions as I did for you. But by all means, carry on....this hole your digging is monumental.

"Fin D wrote:

It doesn't matter if or what you got correct. You, like the rest of the Haters don't really apy attention anyway. I've answered each of these questions numerous times. I've answered them numerous times to Fin-O directly.

Doesn't matter though, you guys just keep making stuff up anyway.

And keep playing verbal lingo and berating everyone.

I've known you for years and expect a lot better from you. You are out of line with your tone and responses. I'm the last thing from a hater, I love this team and I'm tired of mediocrity. The only person hating here is you, it's almost comical how offended you are by every post and how downright rude you have been during this debate. I'm actually amused.

I'm done engaging you on this matter because it's all irrelevant. The sad thing is you don't realize that people want you to be right... But are also pointing out their level of reality. We are all right and we are all wrong. Time will tell (or may not tell) who is more right. I defended Henne for a long time before reality set in. I've defended Tannehill for 3 years and the outcomes are same year after year. Eventually you have to look to upgrade parts of the team that are not performing in the clutch and Tannehill is the key cog on this team, like it or not.

Of course it's not all on him. Our defense is atrocious, our O-line has been atrocious at times, our coaching has been atrocious, our owner has been atrocious and this franchise has been atrocious.

I grew up watching great football players elevate their teams. I watch great football players elevate their teams today. I watch mediocre QB's elevate their games and make big plays. I want a QB that wills victories. I want a QB that can make third down throws, that can avoid pressure and that has a winning gene. Would our team record be the same? Nobody knows. But it can't be much worse... The Jets have a better record than us with Ryan Fitzpatrick, a team that finished 4-12 last year. Tyrod ****ing Taylor beat us twice, evaded pressure and made some incredible throws in two blowouts. Is it all on Tannehill? Hell no. Is it a combination of Tannehill and the OL? Yes. Could Tannehill do a lot more. Abso****inglutely. I want him to prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier.

"Bumrush wrote:

FinD is painted into a corner as more and more people realize that Tannehill is part of the problem.
He will come around. After the third game of this season he finally realized that Coach Philbin was part of the problem and supported his firing after defending him as staunchly all offseason and through our late season collapse last year.

With that being said I HOPE that FinD is 10000000% correct on every point and that Ryan evolves in a to a great QB. IMHO the odds are low that he'll suddenly have NFL caliber awareness to match his amazing arm, tenacity and professionalism.

I'm in no corner.

I've stated my stance numerous times. You, Fin-O, finster, rock sexton, and the rest of you Skip Bayless wannabes have done nothing to prove me wrong on my stance. Instead, you make the argument circular, by the following method:

1. Make a bogus claim about Tannehill
2. Back it up with a bogus statement about the other side's stance.
3. Insults.
4. Ask the other side for their stance again.
5. Misstate their stance again.
6. Insults again.
7. Claim the other side is in the corner or has lost, etc.
8. Repeat 1-7.