KC squeaking by the Raiders. 19-17 with 6 minutes to go in the game. In KC. (As I’m writing this, Mahomes just made a horrible pass to Kelce (incomplete). I blame Mahomes for this loss because he’s not at 100% completion rate. I thought “good teams” should beat losing teams by around 150 points and teams shouldn’t be happy when they beat the Raiders? KC just had to punt with 5 minutes left because Mahomes just isn’t good enough to put the game away.
Mahomes just overthrew a wide open receiver that would have been a TD. Now they have to punt and give the ball back to the Raiders with 2 minutes left. Mahomes just isn’t good enough. Even though he has over 300 yards passing with a TD and no INT’s. I bet KC’s defense doesn’t allow the Raiders to go down and kick a FG, however. And THEN Mahomes will be good enough.
Wow! Raiders were just moving it down the field for the easy FG try. Mahomes willed the Raiders to fumble it and for the Chiefs to recover. Mahomes comes through again and wins the game!
Mahomes this year is not really an elite QB. In fact, this is the 2nd year in a row Mahomes is putting up average-ish stats in the regular season. Of course he's amazing in the postseason, but there's an approximate 10 passer rating point dropoff that's fairly consistent now since 2023 compared to what he used to put up. And it's due to having a lot more subpar games than he used to have. This year, including today, 7 out of 12 games his rating is below league average. Over a career he's no doubt one of the greatest ever, but he's not an elite QB at the moment.
And yet the Chiefs still win only because of him. The only QB that can play mediocre and still win. Right?
I don't think that Mahomes has ever been a great QB. He's been a guy with elite gifts at the position, who plays for one of the best coaches of all time, and throws to an elite big body receiver who's always open. But his game has always been casual, sandlot, seat of his pants silliness. Never controlled, steady mastery of an offense.
You're talking about style. Performance-wise there's no question he's one of the greats. But it's also time to acknowledge he's not been that great performance-wise since 2023 (except in the playoffs where it matters a ton more of course). Personally though, I like Mahomes' style.. assuming the performance comes with it.
Imo, half assing it and still succeeding isn't a style. It's simply being able to regularly overcome your sloppieness and/or laziness. Normally that garbage stops when I player goes from HS to college, but he's been able to keep getting away with it in the NFL. Very much like Brett Favre. And I've always rooted against both of them.
This obsesión with stats. Your stats don't put things into context or taken into account supporting cast. Mahomes does not have elite weapons to throw to anymore other than Kelce. But when you need a QB who can make a play in the clutch and do what it takes to win big games regardless of supoorting cast Mahomes is better than anybody. We of course can't say the same thing for Tua who puts up elite stats with great recievers to throw to but can't get it done in the big moments and big games.
A QB puts up elite stats, but the team loses so it “wasn’t enough”. Has there ever been anything more dumb posted on the internet?
Making a comparison between Tua and Mahomes is like comparing an A10 Warthog and an F22 Raptor. Both aircraft phenomenal but to say one is better than the other is silly as one can do what the other can’t and Vice Versa. Tua is a TRADITIONAL quarterback, sit back in the pocket and slice you up. Mahomes is an athletic running quarterback with a gift for improvisation that NO other quarterback in the league possesses. So does this mean because the A10 Warthog can slow to an airspeed of 150 knots and utterly devastate enemy forces with 20mm depleted uranium rounds fired from a Gatling gun make it a better aircraft than the F22 because it can’t? Is the F22 a better aircraft because it can cruise at a speed of Mach2 and destroy targets from 100 miles away because the A10 can’t? See what I mean? To make this sort of comparison in a vacuum makes no sense.
The answer is this simple good teams find away to win against bad teas when they take them lightly. Football is an emotional game actually why we have upsets all the time. Probably why we almost beat the Bills. They took us lightly knowing we never win up there and had nothing to do with us being a good team because we're not.
It's very difficult to accurately take context into account. We already know you are really bad at it given all the incorrect predictions you've made about Tua and the constant goalpost moving you've had to do. Regarding Mahomes, in 2022 when Mahomes was putting up elite stats without Hill you said Mahomes can create on his own and has Kelce and that he can be successful in any system lol. https://thephins.com/threads/intern...is-grier-and-brian-flores.98602/#post-3585447 Now you're saying we have to "take context into account" even though Mahomes has Kelce lol. It's not a consistent position. Also, let's note you did NOT predict that Mahomes' stats would suddenly drop off in 2023. No one did. Taking into account context is hard. That's why statistical analysis is so valuable, and why GMs are increasingly relying on it. Regardless, Mahomes today is not an elite QB in the regular season.
Mahomes has a long history of elite play that makes him one of the greatest ever, and it's not clear this "slump" will continue. So I'd go with Mahomes for the long term. But if you look at Mahomes this year he's not been as good as Tua or for that matter many other QBs.
I'm actually rooting for him. He has the best chance among QBs today to beat Brady's 7 SBs. I would really like to see someone with Mahonmes' skillset be considered the greatest ever rather than Brady. It's hard though, good team or not, to win 7 SBs.
Agreed, but I‘m a little tired of the Chiefs already and the Tampa Bay stint made me hate Brady a little less…
Stop talking about other posters. Talk football. We’re going to make this a more accommodative board for discussion. It’s gotten out of hand. Resnor and others have a legitimate point of view. If you don’t agree fine argue against it. Otherwise just stop it.
Nothing will ever erase what Brady accomplished. In the moment I couldn't stand Brady but now that he's gone I really have no hate for the man. Personally I'd rather not see Mahomes win another playoff game. If Miami is out I want to see teams like Detroit knock the annointed poster children off their respective pedastals. It would be nice to see a team like the Lions win and take down Mahomes or Allen. Their fans have suffered worse than we have and I'd be happy for them.
I completely agree. I hated Brady. Once he left the Pats to do it without Bill, I had no problem with him. I like him now. Like, you gotta respect him playing effectively that long. Montana, for instance, was toast when he went to KC (I'm not attempting to compare ANYTHING else, just Brady's effectiveness well into his 40s. I don't question Brady's dedication to winning. Very much like a Kobe or Jordan in that respect. Singularly focused.
Nothing will erase it, but wait long enough and someone will likely surpass it. Brady is great but I'd personally like to see someone else be the GOAT. Same with Ohtani in baseball. Guy has a chance to beat Babe Ruth as consensus #1 if he can keep up what he's doing 5-10 more years. Kind of exciting actually.
Here's another thing, why is it that for Mahomes, when someone says he could "be successful" they say that means "elite stats." And like, what actually is the argument, right now? The Chiefs are 11-1, Mahomes is 5th in the league for yards (2900+, we'll call it 3k), has 19 tds and 11 ints. There are 5 games left, so we can figure another 1200 yards by the end, another 8 tds, and another 4-5 ints. Let's say they finish 16-1 or 15-2, and Mahomes has 4200, 27 and 15. We really gonna act like that isn't a great season??
Efficiency stats are far more important and correlate far more to winning than volume stats. Mahomes is average-ish efficiency wise. The majority of his games have a below average passer rating this year. He's statistically average-ish this year in the stats that count most.
Yet the Chiefs are 11-1. He gets the job done, nobody cares about stats as long as they are winning. Your correlation between passing efficiency and winning doesn't seem to apply to Mahomes.
“Getting the job done”, for a QB, is when the rest of the team plays well enough to overcome his average play. Not getting the job done for a QB is when a QB plays elite, but the rest of the team isn’t good enough to win anyways.
The more likely explanation is that the last 2 years something other than Mahomes was more important. Note that KC was top 6 in points per game from Mahomes' first year 2018 all the way to 2022, with them #1 on offense in 2022 when they won the SB. That year their defense was 16th in points allowed. Then in 2023 when they won the SB again it was the reverse: #2 on defense and #15 on offense. So the correlation holds. It's just that Mahomes wasn't the key factor for much of the 2023 season like he was in 2022 (individual games excepted of course, and yes he played great in the playoffs but not as impressive as in 2022). This year they're also better on defense than offense though not as dominant as last year. So there's nothing to suggest this is some kind of exception to the rule (yet). Also, if you look at some of KC's wins you can see they didn't win because of Mahomes. That Raiders game is a great example. Mahomes does nothing to put the game away late in the 4th (the same criticism you make about Tua btw). That gives the Raiders the ball back, and the Raiders are in FG position when a complete fluke error occurs (center snaps the ball without the QB ready!) and the defense recovers a fumble. That win technically goes to the defense. So this isn't an exception. Can't have too many exceptions btw or there won't be such a strong correlation.
If the QB is largely throwing short passes and screens, and having success, wouldn't that indicate his teammates doing their jobs? But you choose to ignore that at pivotal points, Tua threw terrible balls or took sacks. Exactly what guys complained about Tannehill for. You guys didn't care what his stats were. You would hammer him over a bad throw or sack. Again, I don't think anyone is saying it's Tua's fault we lost to the Packers, I think they are saying that Tua is a part of a team that is a pretender.
If only Tua could complete 59% of his passes, throw 11 interceptions with only 12 TD’s, and average 130 yards passing per game, like Trent Dilfer in 2000, we could “not care about stats” because “Dilfer won the SB”. Some people will use stats when Tua has a bad game, but then ignore stats when Tua is playing elite. It’s so very transparent and extremely childish.
Right. 11-1 with a QB who is top 10, in a down year for him, in multiple passing categories. Yeah he's downright terrible. Would never want that guy on my team.
He had 9 incompletions in nearly 40 attempts. Over an 80% completion rate. How many ****ing “terrible balls” could he have possibly thrown? “Take sacks” lmao…
