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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Dec 23, 2009.
Yet no other receiver the Jets have played - Randy Moss, Roddy White, Anyone on the Saints - have been able to "outrun" Revis.
Besides, watch it again. There was more to it than just speed. When Ginn faked to the inside, Revis was done.
I realize it's ONE play out of an entire season. Just because he's been bad for most of the season doesn't mean that wasn't a great play.
Revis just missed the jam.
Ted Ginn just needs a little bit more time (about 3 more years) in the league to develop into the WR we would like him to be in the present time. It takes time for WRs to reach their full potential in this league.
Even after the jam he appeared to be stride for stride. Once Ginn faked as though he was cutting the route in, you can see Revis peek in the backfield. That hesitation was enough for Ginn to blow by him.
Maybe the safeties were faked out by the move as well. Just my observation.
Maybe I'm wrong, but right about the 40 sec mark is the move.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPtJF-IgPc"]YouTube- Ted Ginn Jr Smokes Darrelle Revis For 53 Yard TD Catch[/ame]
Well certainly whenever Ginn beats the jam he has an advantage. I couldn't see the safeties, they may have been faked out by the post move. But if its just a foot race then Ginn will win 75% of the time.
6 years?!?!?! lmao
That's as positive as I could get regarding Ted Ginn... LOL too
Perhaps, but let's be a little more practical about it.
He isn't even in the top three five to make the most big plays.
He is Mark Reynolds-
If you pitch him a fastball directly down the pipe, and tell him its coming ahead of time, he has a 50-50 chance of hitting a homerun.
Any other scenario and he strikes out.
As to him coming back to camp, of course he will be there.....UNLESS we are fortunate enough to finaggle a 4th round draft pick for him
It looked like he missed the jam because Ginn did a good job of getting out of his reach. It wasn't like Revis simply missed hitting him - Ginn made a move that got around the jam.
Yeah - like I said - I addressed the consistency in my original post.
And it isn't like we take a lot of shots down the field.
All I am saying is that he has been getting great separation this year - unlike the last two years.
But in those last two years - he showed good hands and play making ability (in the opportunities presented - he wasn't dropping bombs last year, he would disappear because his short game was awful).
IF he puts the two together he could be solid.
Or he may continue to be average.
Considering we have no one else on the roster with the physical tools to do what Ginn can do, I'd love to see if he can put it together in camp next year.
File this under "excuses" but Ginn has a learning disability and is in his 2nd year in this offense and first with this QB. It isn't unreasonable to think that next year he could come out and be a very solid #2-3 for us. At minimum a good asset to keep on the team.
calm down ginn made his one play for the year
that is good enough for me
that makes him a star in my book
is this thread really serious
In the last 2+ years, he has been very very pedestrian as a WR.
We have seen 3 guys come and in the same amount of time or less progress circles around Mr Ginn.
He will more than likely be in camp next year, and that is good.
Just don't be surprised if he is on a very very short list is all.
I have been hearing for 3 years now: "Wait till his third year, that's how long it takes a reciever to develop at this level."
Well, once again, we have seen Bess outperform in just his second year, and now Hartline as a rookie.
Ginn has 1 single thing going for him, and that is straightline speed. Nothing else.
Its pretty damn easy to de-rail a 1 trick pony in the NFL, especially when that one trick is a belt-high fastball.
the positive of Ginn ... his physical tools ... same as J Allen. if you could ever find a way to get them to full capacity on the field, they could both be very, very good.
the negative of Ginn ... he is mentally weak ... conversely J Allen is not that bright.
the difference between the 2 is that Allen likes contact so he has value on STs where he doesn't really have to think, whereas Ginn obviously doesn't - so he limits his value both as a WR and KR. Unfortunately, there is no fix for that. Sort of like Chambers after he got clocked in DEN.
Do i wish there was .... i sure do .... and so does this FO ...
Your missing the point, not shocked.
I'm not ashamed to admit that I am as well
Naturally I post something positive about Ginn and the babies come crying.
I knew Revis was good but I didnt know he was THAT good untl I saw the stats against him. Wich makes Ginn's play on him that much more impressive.
It is a public forum but i figured since the Ginn likers and dislikers usually makes for a bad overall thread. this was made to discuss a member of the Dolphins doing something positive, if u feel like u must reply in a bad way why even click the button?
This thread turned into what I hoped it wouldnt....people must love to hate.
Ginn made a great move on a guy who from the looks of the stats doesnt have it happen to him often.
Go back and watch the video I posted earlier in the thread. Look at the amount of good returns Ginn has had in his 3 years (that video has no highlights from this year). He has shown to be a solid KR.
And Ginn's lack of physical play wasn't an issue before this year. I think fear of contact and unstable hands are both confidence / mental issues. Considering neither was a large issue earlier in his career I don't think it is far fetched to think he could possibly get past them.
I think that's the crux of it. People just need/want somebody to blame and they don't do a good job of spreading the blame accordingly. It's what some politicians rely on. That's how Hitler used the Jews and how some use just about every group in the U.S.
In Ginn's case he has obviously had his gaffes and is clearly a disappointment. But based on the fact that you can't say anything positive about him without getting so many negative comments, it's obvious that he is the target of a disproportionate amount of hate.
We've done this dance. No question he has been outperformed - though we've both agreed the Bess / Ginn comparisons aren't really fair considering what they are asked to do.
I will readily admit that the odds of him putting it together are slim to none - but players with big playmaking ability are hard to come by and I think his ability to learn the WR position (getting separation) was always his biggest hurdle. Now that he is learning how to get open, if he can regain his confidence he could be a very useful player.
I'm not holding my breath, but on a team of possession and physically limited WRs, I think his leash needs to be a little longer.
Here's what we should do. Have Ginn run the shorter routes, and Bess go deep. We've seen Ginn catch the shorter stuff in Indy. Many for first downs.
Agreed. The people who cry about him having bad hands tend to forget that it was an issue this year and this year only, his route running has improved and he carried this team to a victory over the Jets. He is not a #1 reciever and he has alot of issues that need to be resolved.
I think the difference between alot of people here are some of us realize what Ginn is and hope he gets better, others tend to want to rant about it every chance they get because they simply just can let go the fact he was the #9 pick.
It definitely speaks volumes about a player when you highlight a single route from the entire season as reason for hope.
I don't buy the "but it was against Revis" argument. Revis is human and it was one play in one game. Ten times out of ten I take Revis on that matchup, and I'm not saying that to bash Ginn.
A real positive thing is that Ginn might be 2 games away from not playing in Miami anymore.
One can hope.
It is a shame Ginn can't play the Jets 16 times a season. Maybe we would have more positives to talk about if he did.
So, what you're saying is that some of you get it while the rest of us "Babies" (A phrase repeatedly used by YOU) don't get it.
Well, I will keep trying to catch on. I've been trying real hard for 2-1/2 years now....I will eventually get it
Well the article I read (wich i shouldve posted a link) was on how Revis has been so dominant, then I remembered how Ginn abused him on that play.
So I posted it to shed a positive light on one of our much hated Dolphin players, to show that he CAN do it. This by no means is me saying Ginn is better than Revis.
And that play wasnt even the "highlight" of his year obviously what he did to the Jets is.
I know anyone can get beat on a given play but I would be just as happy if Cam Wake were to bullrush Joe Thomas for a sack, or when Vontea takes footballs from Randy Moss.
The point is physically he can do it, but we all agree for Ginn its VERY mental.
Yes, and as a WR Ginn should have a good YAC. Right? I mean he is running routes and should be getting YAC based on those routes.
Ted Ginn 2009: 1.1 YAC
Oh, I know...he is getting used as a #4 WR.
So lets look at 2008 when he was a #1: A whopping 3.6 YAC
So lets look at some other "top" WR's in the league and see their YAC this year:
Bess: 4.7 YAC
Welker: 5.9 YAC
Crayton: 6.8 YAC
Amendola: 5.0 YAC
Coles: 4.9 YAC
Chambers: 4.6 YAC
Nicks: 10.1 YAC
Henderson: 6.2 YAC
I could go on and on...but the main thing with these people, they weren't considered the #1 on their team. Sure, Bess has had to step into that role...but everyone else is a #2 or worse. So for all his speed...for all this route running and getting in the open field...Ginn avgs a whopping 1.1 yard after the catch.
yeah...defend that. Just amazing that people still defend this guy.
Hope so buddie, in the mean time if you need someone to talk to you can always pm me.
And if you want to charecterize yourself a baby then go right ahead, but understand that was not directed at you.
I've said it a bunch already, but I'll say it again: people are judging Ginn based on THIS YEAR when it comes to drops. He hadn't had this problem the last two years. His route running has been much better this year. The last couple games, he's made great catches, and dropped almost nothing. I think he can put it all together.
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It is no secret Ginn has flat out sucked in 90% of the games he has played in, I mean were all watching the same games. But when he gets blamed for everything that goes wrong with this team its sickening.
People arent defending that Ginn is playing great right now, we are simply bringing up the things he CAN do.
You openly rooted for him to fail and be off the team earlier so I am not sure why I am doing this - but...
When is Ginn running routes that promote YAC? I have seen him run mostly come-back routes the better portion of the year. I haven't seen many slants / quick screens / posts his way at all.
Its not just that though.
Its the ramifications of that.
He's getting paid like a #9 and that hurts our salary cap.
We could've picked a better player (however debatable) with that pick and it just seems that he was picked due to Cam being BFF with Ginns Dad.
In the end, it is what it is so I see your valid point.
If we are to keep Ginn beyond this season then, so be it, but he can no longer be counted on as our #1 WR and he must visit with a sports trauma psycologist or something to get rid of his mental problems in playing the game of football and realizing that he needs to be ready to take a real hit now and then. If he can get that down consistantly he can be a very dangerous weapon as evidenced by the few times he has been called out openly and his head was on straight and on a mission.
It just seems to me that he only played football to land a fat contract for as long as possible as in reality he is just a sprinter.
Thats what some of us are hoping for bro, he made a huge catch vs. the Pats but nobody wants to talk about it, not to mention the 2 great plays to clinch the division in NY last year.
He is far from the only problem and I haven't ever said he was. I don't think anyone has said he is the only problem. However, when we have problems at WR and he was our #1...well, he is the key problem at that position. The defenders of Ginn have used every excuse in the book, even saying it was Henne throwing to hard of a ball. Yet, every other WR adapted and while they drop one every now and then...they still make plays and get YAC. Ted, not so much.
I am at the point in my life where I took off the rose colored glasses and praised every player or never said a bad thing because of the uniform. My hard earned money goes towards this team and I am damn sure going to call someone out when they aren't performing to the level they should be, expected to be, or potentially could be.
We have major issues on this team in terms of pass defense, WR, and TE...as well as special teams. Ginn accounts for 2 of those issues. He will get called out more than others because of that and because of what was pinned on him with his draft status...worthy or not.
Might want to clarify next time when repeatedly making such a general statement.
Now then, behold the power of IGNORE
Not sure why I am replying to you when all you do is defend Ginn, but...
How many of those same routes does Bess run? Pretty much the majority of the same routes Ginn has run, bess ran or has run. Fact is...his YAC number isn't just bad this year. It has been a career decline thing (5.1 - 3.6 - 1.1)
btw....Welker runs a lot of the same routes that Ginn runs in terms of come back and short inside routes. Difference is, Welker makes the play to get away and uses his speed. Ginn...crumbles.
Look...when Ginn has a good game, I praise him...just like I do any player that has a good game. When he doesn't, he will get the scorn just like I give it to any other player on the team who F's up. Can you say the same? When have you been critical of Ginn when he deserved it?