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Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by Paul 13, Sep 8, 2014.
It may be good riddance anyway. What has he handled well besides profit for the owners?
The NFL and the Ravens absolutely saw the video. There's no way in hell that didn't get out, there were rumors that described exactly what was on it months ago, and shameless mouthpiece Peter King pretty explicitly admitted it months ago before invariably claiming otherwise in defense of the league.
The best thing that can happen out of this is if Goodell ends up having to fall on his sword for trying to cover this up. He's awful, even before this.
Knockout your date off video= 2 games
Knockout your date on camera= lifetime
That makes no sense
Of course, the Ravens and the NFL had seen the video previous to this. If you want to see what it looks like when someone lies to you, watch Harbaugh's press conference.
It was the looming PR hit that forced their hand. If Ray Rice wasn't about to cost everyone A TON of money, he'd be back to practice on Friday. I would bet TMZ asked the NFL to buy and bury the video and they didn't bite.
The Ravens can do as they please. What bothers me is the Goodell is allowed to play judge and jury in case where no one is convicted and charges were dropped. And he can end a career on that basis. I don't think the players' union should stand for that.
The charges get dropped after a year. If he is a dumbass and doesn't complete the program and stay out of trouble, he could certainly to prison.
If Ray Rice went to prison he'd have a few guys who would want to have the notoriety of doing something to Ray Rice, a lot of fans, and a lot of people he could very likely control with all the canteen money he would have because as I understand it the Ravens don't get to claw back any of their money.
I deal with this stuff on a pretty regular basis. IMHO Ray did himself a disservice by taking a deal that gave him a walk. If he did a couple months in jail this offseason it would be much easier for the league to ring him up for 4 games or so and there wouldn't be this firestorm.
Domestic violence is IMHO not automatic scumbag behavior only because there is pretty overwhelming evidence that it is a learned behavior from childhood in a large number of cases. If you want a real way of tackling it, you look at Massachusetts and their groundbreaking work on making the lives of abusers living hell if they even try to get at their victims again. I am a big fan as a public defender frankly because it puts the keys to the cell in the hands of the offender. If they act right, they get to live their lives. It changes the cycle of abuse by putting it on its head. This frankly is sound and fury against the NFL that in the end signifies nothing. Being harsh on domestic violence is not the answer. Being smart like in Massachusetts is. That's why they are getting such completely astounding results.
curious JJ, do you know offhand some of the measures they use up here to make the lives of abusers a living hell if they continue their behavior ?
People are willing to absorb a lot of abuse for money.
Are you saying people actually pay Maynard for that?
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Calls for Goodell to resign are getting louder. This could it for him.
I do. Likely the biggest one is GPS tracking with serious teeth that serve to allow any cop to arrest the guy for violating where he is or isn't supposed to be on that tracking.
They don't pay him for conversation.
I'll have to leave it at that then, but continually seeing my home state stereotyped as being full of nothing but moronic rednecks has worn very thin on me over the years.
Well I still say, if Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes who smashed a bottle on a woman, Randy McMichael and many others were given second, third, fourth chances, then Ray Rice should be allowed his second and last chance in this league. I don't think he's much of a football player anymore last year he looked like crap, but if he was cut because of this 6 years ago (which he wouldn't have, but that's how it is now), about 15 teams would have grabbed him after he cleared waivers. Now that we're in the "twitterverse", there's no such thing as second chances in life, one mistake and you're done.
What he did was deplorable, but same goes for Marshall, Holmes and McMichael. And yet, Holmes and Marshall played last Sunday.. Even those hens at "The View" invited Brandon over a couple months ago when he signed his contract extension on live television, yet I'm sure they've been badmouthing Ray Rice the past 2 weeks. This society is making less and less sense to me by the day.
I just don't understand this mentality and think it is backwards to rational thought.
Just because something wasn't punished properly in the past, doesn't mean the next time that same thing happens it should continue to be improperly punished.
Mistakes were made in the past, right them now and going forward.
Following the logic you laid out, nothing should ever get solved.
The proper punishment for this isn't an indefinite ban. It's probably four games which should probably be default punishment for a number of ills like second offense recreational drugs and first offense criminality. Frankly if the NFL wants to make impact beyond that they need to deal with making players take that month to perform community service, get counseling, whatever. I have little problem with an indefinite ban for a second criminal offense.
So you wouldn't fire an employee after watching them do that on video? I would. This is his employment, its not a jail sentence. The NFL has conduct standards in every contract, he had a legal right to not employ him anymore.
The guy everyone should be up in arms about is the prosecuting attorney that HAD to have seen that video and gave Ray Rice what amounted to a pat on the back and a "you'll do better next time" moment, that guy should be removed from his position this second.
Its not just that its his first offense. He lied to Goodell and the Ravens, and apparently got his wife to lie for him too. I think thats enough to warrant a lifetime ban. The NFL and the Ravens basically rallied around him in support of him and used their PR machine to try and rebuild his image, all the while this tape is sitting somewhere getting ready to hit the internet. The NFL and the Ravens were beyond stupid in this case but Rice's attempt to blame the victim by having his wife lie about the incident to me is grounds for him never playing again. He's not a convicted felon he can go get a job selling cars if he needs money.
The league and team were either willfully blind or are telling lies. That doesn't remotely play and I think it should take Goodell down. Unfortunately that's in the hands of an oligarchy.
The Ravens had every right to cut him and teams individually have the right to say no thanks. Michael Vick is employed in this league. If he has football left in him he will be employed.
The prosecutor should be defended this much: he had an unwilling victim. I agree that he should have demanded jail as part of the deal. I think diversion on first offense domestic assault is a policy decision most state legislators have decided is in the public good with support from domestic violence advocates. I get being angry he hit a woman but this is a difficult and complex legal issue.
Imagine running a little AC repair shop in a small town.
One of your employees gets caught for domestic abuse and its in the newspapers with stories that read "John Dickbag punches his wife in the throat yesterday on camera. Dickbag, an AC repairman for A-1 AC Repair, has been released on bond......"
Now your business has been associated with this guy and it affects your bottom line, why is it wrong to ****can him?
(Besides the fact that you should know better than hiring someone named Dickbag.)
It's not wrong to can him. It's wrong to tell the AC union he can't ever work again.
I agree that Goodell should actually lose his job over this, it was that big of a screw up. The Ravens deserve the black eye too, they actually used their organization to try and prop Ray Rice back up, it was just shameful and embarrassing for everyone involved and shows how we really haven't progressed all that far from the days where your wife was property.
Yeah I know it might have messed up the prosecutor's numbers if he went to court, sad but true. Still the agreement he made with Rice was so ridiculous that he should be removed immediately. He gave Rice a deal that you give to a 10 year old that gets arrested for striking a 5 year old, I mean it literally meant nothing.
I don't agree with Vick being allowed to play in the league either, his crimes were even worse, he remorselessly killed living animals for sport and fun, he's evil, he shouldn't be in the league.
I think the indefinite ban can be removed, they might remove it, I think they just want the right to keep it and they are forcing the NFLPA to try and defend Rice which they most certainly won't. Its a harsh move but I think the league has to take a stand here.
The NFL is a business. There's no reason they can't say he can't work for the NFL again. There's other places he can go play football.
The NFL is actually more of a cartel or association at least where employing the players is concerned. The only reasons they can ban him are in the CBA. If the union won't step in Rice can pursue it or maybe go to the NLRB.
Fwiw in 2 hours in our appropriate court today we have seen 2 get dispositions akin to what Rice got and one person who failed. Three others iirc succeeded and got charges dismissed. This is the reality of modern jurisprudence.
There absolutely is a reason. They have a contractual agreement with the NFLPA that prohibits it.
If he is an at-will employee, there is nothing wrong with firing him.
If he has a collective bargaining agreement, that specifies a process and boundaries for discipline for his personal conduct, then that business needs to follow that agreement.
The Ravens have every right to cut a player for personal conduct.
I think it's important to note that the suspension is an "indefinite" one but that doesn't mean it's a lifetime ban. It just means that he has to petition them for reinstatement. They want to be involved with whatever team decides to give him a second chance, like they were involved when Vick came back with the Eagles.
And I fully believe them when they say they hadn't seen the video yet. There are two separate video tapes and I think that's where everyone is getting confused. The video of Rice from the vantage point outside of the elevator was already out there and the NFL had seen it. It's mainly Rice awkwardly trying to drag his wife out, etc. The NFL and Ravens may have known there was another video from inside the elevator, but I think when the authorities didn't furnish that video they kind of took that as an opportunity not to press for it because I don't think they wanted to see it.
Who exactly decides what proper punishment is? Roger Goodell? Are you seriously saying that Goodell should have more latitude than he currently does? Your logic that nothing should ever get solved is off-base. You essentially have two ways to deal with something like this:
A. You put in place guidelines for punishment based on specific acts. If you find a player violated a policy, you punish that act according to the guidelines already established prior to that act.
B. Roger Goodell chooses a punishment that varies from player to player.
The key phrase here is "arbitrary and capricious". Goodell cannot act capriciously or arbitrarily. Deciding that he wants to increase the penalty for a specific player absolutely is capricious and arbitrary. This is exactly the way he should act. Anything otherwise compromises the integrity of the process. You're opening a pandora's box where one person could favor one team, or disfavor one team. He could target specific players (e.g. ones that are vocal about CBA issues).
They don't get to play the ostrich and pretend the second video is a revelation. That's horrid shameful behavior.
The league doesn't get to be involved in where he signs. The only question mark here is whether Rice wants to play again enough to press it.
The league absolutely gets a say in what team gives Ray Rice a second chance. It *will* be a three-party negotiation.
If so they're running a serious risk of antitrust violation as I understand antitrust law.
The legal quandary of this situation is that his wife refused to press charges. As long as she keeps defending this dirtbag, it's going to hold up Rice paying a penalty in the court of law. That sucks.
Was this posted yet? Nothing to do with my next statement, I'm just throwing it up here.
I want to clarify something... Ray Rice was suspended 4 games. Rodger Goodell and Rice came to an agreement to reduce the suspension to 2 games. They agreed on 2 if Rice didn't appeal. It was in both their best interests not to get to the appeal process. Reality is, Rice wasn't charged. Rice's fiance (now wife) defended Ray and claimed she started the violence. Which at the time, no one could prove or disprove. Rice could of argued that he didn't deserve to be suspended at all. The NFL seriously ****ed up by not investigating or requesting the elevator tape. They wanted this to go away, asap.
Rodger Goodell need to GO. Take Rice out of the equation. The NFL commissioner shouldn't have the right to renege on a deal he accepted just because he doesn't want to look like an idiot all over again. That's BS. That's an abuse of power, IMO. I hope Ray Rice sues the living **** out of the NFL and wins. I hope the NFLPA backs Rice too. Goodell has been a nightmare since taking over and he plays favorites. See Michael Sam as exhibit B. No player has damaged the "shield" and "brand" as much as Goodell has during his tenure.
Like I said, she keeps defending this lowlife, its only going to complicate matters. If you ask me though, they both made their own beds.
As I said, the Ravens can do as they please. Likewise, another team should be able to sign him if they want to take on the risk.
Whether or not the Commish can give the Pete Rose treatment is the issue.