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Redshirting Rookies

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by VManis, Jul 15, 2014.

  1. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There has been a lot of talk about the lack of contribution we got last year from Jordan, Taylor and Davis. This article in USA Today discusses how drafting injured players and allowing them to "redshirt" their rookie season. Of course they don't even mention the Phins as they focus on upper echelon teams (49ers, Seahawks & Patriots) but its interesting none the less.


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...riots-dominique-easley-trent-baalke/12542961/
     
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  2. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's an interesting proposition. I'd like to emphasize one point the article mentioned... that teams with solid starters and good depth, like the 49ers, can afford to 'redshirt' rookies. The Dolphins cannot afford to do that at this particular time. When we make the playoffs, then, yeah... go for it. Until that time, we need starters who can help the team now. JMHO.
     
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  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know if that's true given the picks. The Dolphins could afford to "redshirt" the guys it did for the most part- The edge rusher and cornerback play last year was good without Jordan, Taylor, and Davis. They could have used help at Guard, but realistically a good performance from a rookie guard is not particularly common anyway.
     
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  4. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a good point. However... as good performance for a rookie guard may be uncommon, it's impossible to get a good guard in the draft if you're picking injured cornerbacks instead. :wink2:

    And, for the record... I give Ireland a pass for trading up for Dion Jordan, even if he is injured and will likely not perform for you in his rookie season. Jordan is a rare physical specimen who has the potential to change the way a team can play defense. Taylor and Davis? Not so much.

    Redshirting one pick in a draft I can understand. Redshirting three of your first four draft picks when you missed the playoffs the year prior? I don't agree with that at all.
     
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  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think most of it was actually all that anticipated, as much as it was something that happened.

    As far as Guard, PFF had a pretty good article on the learning curve at the position from a statistical standpoint:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/07/14/position-progression-guard/. Even if they had picked a Guard with pretty much any of the picks, they'd have likely had below average performance in the context of league average.
     
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  6. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Taylor may have been a 1st round pick without his injuries. So I can live with his red shirt.

    Frankly, im ok with redshirting rookies in general. Let them learn and evolve before throwing them to the wolves.
     
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  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    All that shows is that Ireland did a poor job of drafting for position of need in the 2013 draft. Since the play of the edge rushers and the CB's was good without the top picks last year and the Dolphins still failed to have a winning season, it only shows that Ireland should not have drafted those players in the first place.

    Instead he should have drafted an offensive lineman, safety, RB, or LB with with the picks used on those three players. Those positions were the real area of need in the 2013 season.

    I do think Taylor could eventually end up being a solid CB in the NFL, but the rest of the 2013 draft was below average at best. Davis is a hit or miss type CB and I don't ever see him being anything more than a 6th or 7th CB on an NFL roster.

    Jordan may turn out to be a decent pass rusher, but I don't think he will ever live up to the top defensive player in the draft that he was suppose to be. When all is said and done and his career is over, I think he will be seen as a very average player in the NFL.
     
  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Drafting for need is questionable in a vacuum, and in retrospect you pretty much have to look at the viable alternatives. For example, the most obvious alternative to the Dion Jordan pick was Lane Johnson, and I'm not sure there is all that solid evidence Johnson would be a better pick from what we know now.
     
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  9. McLovin

    McLovin Resident Pats fan.

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    .....unzips
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not entirely true yet, seeing that they red shirted we need to see them play..there's a decent chance, Jordan,Taylor, Davis, Dallas Thomas, Jelani Jenkins,Don jones, Sturgis can all be contributors and fixtures for the team..

    Taylor, Jordan, and Thomas as future starters, and maybe Jenkins,Davis, Sturgis and jones as role players.

    If they pan out it will be a good draft..I don't see it outlandish at all to see Jordan, Thomas and Taylor being starters, in fact I think we will be a better team when they are, all three have good to great talent..

    Your not giving them a fair opp,your holding it against them that they redshirted.

    The objective is to aquire good football players, positions will sort it self out, hitting on your acquisitions with a high rate will give you good future flexibility..let last years draft play out, they have talent.
     
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  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    While they both will sit out the first four games of this coming season because they tested positive for banned substances. Johnson played better as the season went along last year and if the Eagles were willing to trade him to the Dolphins right now for Jordan, I would take that trade and not even hesitate.

    I just don't think Jordan will ever be better than average and I think Johnson could turn into an above average tackle in the NFL.
     
  12. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    No matter how well Johnson turns out he will never be a game changer, make opposing teams game plan for him, nor make you say "Wow". Jordan did all those things last season while recovering from shoulder surgery and playing limited snaps.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Don't mind him. Dion Jordan isn't going to become good because he is a Dolphin.

    Lane Johnson is going to become good because he isn't a Dolphin.

    That is how it works.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you respect Chip Kelly?

    Cause I sure as hell do..

    Chip Kelly has first hand knowledge of the type of player Dion Jordan is..

    He was willing to give us a young top 15 pick Brandon Graham and a 2nd round pick for Dion...


    If Dion Jordan's skillset isn't used correctly here, he will probably bail on us first chance he gets and goes to Philly and become better then your projecting him.
     
  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    I'm personally excited that with all of last year's injuries, we almost get two draft classes new on the field this September. With this year's class, other than James, we may not see the guys on the field much outside of special teams either depending on how camp battles play out.
     
  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am projecting him based on how he is used presently in the Dolphin defense. I would be fine with him as an outside LB in a 3-4 defense. Instead he is being utilized as the third string DE in a 4-3 defense.

    Personally I would rather have a top 15 pick and a second round draft pick from the Eagles, instead of a third string DE.

    I think Kelly is going to be a top tier NFL head coach and he would ensure Jordan was used properly. I just don't have that same confident in Philbin.
     
  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Dion Jordan isn't a 3rd string DE... Nor is that his future. Cam Wake can't play forever. And Vernon has a long way to go before he solidifies himself as a full-time RDE. People look at the sack numbers and forget how poorly he was able to get direct pressure.

    In the limited time he played, DJ has made a positive impact. I sometimes think fans are watching two different games. DJ is going to be stud for this football team.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you projecting him as "average" multiple times has everything to do with his talent not being used correctly?
     
  19. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned Sturgis as a role player for the team. I'm more inclined to think that he will be kicking for us for a number of years. He started off last season really well then it went a bit wonky, was that after the ravens game when he was put in a very bad situation at the end? Before that I'm sure we were all discussing how well he was doing. I hope that during this off season he's been working both physically and mentally on his craft. Really hope he comes back strong.
     
  20. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed. Someone went through his misses and in context it wasn't quite as egregious. Some were from way out and could have been a little closer w/out sacks given up by the line and at least one bounced off of an upright. It did suck losing on an end of game kick to Carpenter.
     
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  21. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I have never been as high on Jordan as many people on this forum have been. I don't ever see him being a great player in the NFL. I would prefer to see him playing LB for the Dolphins in a 3-4 defense because I think the LB position is the weakest unit on the defense and perhaps he could play better than the players who are presently the starters. Obviously the coaching staff doesn't think so and they have chosen to keep him at DE. If he could just be an average LB for the Dolphins, that would be better than what the Dolphins got from their LB corp last season.

    I would have taken the offer from the Eagles because I don't believe Jordan will ever play up to the expectations he had when he was taken as the first defensive player in the draft last year. Certainly I have been wrong many times in my life and I would love for Jordan to play at a level which you and many others Jordan supporters could say, I told you so.
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    fair enough..

    I'll say this, whoever made the call from above that he should pack on 25 lbs, I disagree with, I didn't like the idea before it happened, and I don't agree with that direction of the player..

    If they did it the way I wanted he would of been here game 1.
     

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