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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Nov 19, 2013.
Exactly, we don't know.
To avoid the PR storm with the media. Happens all the time.
It is a big deal if the staffer complained about it and nothing was done. EEO matters are not based on what the person who made the jokes intends; rather it's about the effects of the behavior on a co-worker and/or the work environment in general. Employers are expected to take immediate and appropriate action to make it stop when this happens.
And this is where it gets tricky because none of us know what it was really like to be in there. However, I think that this is news worthy because of all the other matters. It also brings into question Miami's management team or lack thereof.
See link below for more information about this. Jokes can be a serious matter and I don't like seeing people get in trouble for something that could be remedied in the early stages before it blows up like it appears to have with the Fins.
Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance. Harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including, but not limited to, the following:
The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, an agent of the employer, a co-worker, or a non-employee.
The victim does not have to be the person harassed, but can be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.
Unlawful harassment may occur without economic injury to, or discharge of, the victim.
The employer will be liable for harassment by non-supervisory employees or non-employees over whom it has control (e.g., independent contractors or customers on the premises), if it knew, or should have known about the harassment and failed to take prompt and appropriate corrective action.
When investigating allegations of harassment, the EEOC looks at the entire record: including the nature of the conduct, and the context in which the alleged incidents occurred. A determination of whether harassment is severe or pervasive enough to be illegal is made on a case-by-case basis.
WADR, that's not true at all.
It shows a bias. When that is coupled with many of the false and purposely negatively stories he's posted it paints a picture.
So, since we'll never know the facts..he's guilty? How does that work?
Are you asking me to predict what proof is necessary? That''s absurd.
Evidence is evidence and it could be anything. I haven't seen any yet, I know that much.
That kind of stuff happened. This is not unique to the Dolphins or Incognito. I'm not saying its right either. I'm just saying its not unique and Shula and every other great coach turned blind eyes to similar behavior. Also, I'm saying we don't know he's guilty of it yet. FTR, if he is guilty, then he should be in jail.
Not beyond a reasonable doubt. But his employer surely knows exactly what happened.
Somebody paid to keep the matter quiet.
You're allowed to use your judgment to determine the credibility of certain people. Richie has no credibility when it comes to poor behavior.
Now true, maybe he encountered a particularly unscrupulous golf volunteer who did extensive research on all the dolphins players who would be at the event in order to determine who she could most likely falsely accuse of these heinous actions and be believed so she could obtain a sweet payment months after demanding only an apology from the perpertrator.
Or maybe the oaf is actually an oaf.
I do not think that is absurd. I am asking if the NFL comes out with proof all of these allegations happened, will you believe it?
If Incognito was indeed NOT joking with him and the staffer complained then, yes I agree. Who knows? At this point anyone who has ever had a conversation with Incognito can sue I guess...
It's very true. It's actually one of the major misconceptions about journalism. A story such as "terminally ill boy gets to call first play in college game, and it's a TD" will always sell better than any controversy you can come up with.
No, it doesn't. I've made many bets against teams I'm totally indifferent of, and I high fived some of them. I'm still not biased against St. Louis. I don't care one way or the other.
I've never said he was guilty. I said that there's usually no hard evidence in harassment cases. What my best friend and I consider innocent banter might deeply offend someone else. The NFL investigation won't change that. There won't be any closure in terms of evidence. It'll always be about who to believe.
If there's evidence/proof, why wouldn't I?
I'm not the one rushing to judgement and holding previously held beliefs based on nothing, that's many of you guys that are doing that.
Considering its 50 years later and millions of people still question whether Oswald killed Kennedy, I'd say that there will be plenty of people who won't accept the findings, however they come out.
Again, not true. If it bleeds it leads. This has gotten way more attention than the guy that was wrongly accused of rape and allowed to enter the draft, for example.
Please explain how betting against a team as a sports journalist isn't a conflict of interest or gives the appearance of bias.
There's been nothing though. No corroboration. No hearing both sides. No nothing. That's not enough to assume anything happened. If I was betting man, I'd bet he did it. But that's not the same as treating him like he did it or blasting the organization for it.
Wish we could but there are some that treat this like candy and they just can't get enough.
First of all, that part was absurd was him asking me for specific evidence I'd accept as if I would know what kind of evidence exists in this case. That's absurd.
Secondly, I'm just asking for some evidence. No need to act as if I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist.
It doesn't matter if Incognito was joking or not; the behavior should've been stopped if the staffer didn't take it as a joke or found it to be funny. But you're right that we don't know. We don't know if it was a one time thing, or if the same thing was repeated and nothing was done to stop it; if there were other forms of 'joking' behavior directed at the alleged victim and/or if it happened at all. I'm starting to tread into the realm of too much speculation here, so I better stop.
I am open to anything, no judgements. I have not pointed a finger at anyone. I am not willing to blame Incognito or Martin or Philbin or Ireland or even Jason Cole. I do not know anything more than you. You seem to know that Cole hates the Phins and that Marino is a raging alcoholic. Thats ok to say..I guess.lol No hatred towards you. Just think you are willing to dismiss anything that paints this team in a bad light. Just want this over
I agree with that. I didn't mean otherwise.
The issue is that in a case like this, there isn't likely to be any physical evidence.
The only documents are probably texts and emails which can be interpreted multiple ways.
So at the end of the day, Ted Wells is simply going to have to measure the credibility of everyone he spoke to, along with whatever documents he can find and make a determination.
The question is, will you accept that determination? If Ted Wells finds that despite not having any concrete evidence, that Philbin knew or should have known what was going on, will you accept that?
It's about credibility. Ted Wells, because of his reputation and background, is being tasked with speaking personally with all these people and deciding whether or not they're telling the truth.
Will you believe him?
Thanks Schmolioot, Exactly This!! Will Fin D say that Ted Wells is biased?
Yeah, that's not true here you are not being open to anything:
I just said Shula allowed similar behavior. I said the team's number 1 son is a raging alcoholic who has done heinous stuff. How exactly am I only believing good stuff about the team?
Ted Wells will conclude whatever is best for the NFL and it's image, justice be damned.
Being wrongly accused of rape isn't exactly a feel good story ...
And yes, it's very true. I've been working in the industry for 15+ years now, and as much as I hate playing the "I know better" card, I do happen to know better.
Oh, it absolutely does. That's why it was dumb. But that doesn't mean it actually was bias. I certainly see why it was interpretated as such, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.
No, it's not. But it's futile to demand evidence when there likely won't be any evidence.
No legally it doesn't and i wasnt trying to imply it did,(should have clarified that) but it has bearing by telling us the type of person she is by taking the money over doing what's right, if in fact the story is true the way the police reports comes out.
And this is Exhibit A for my point.
Unless you're being sarcastic
Don't think they can spin it like that, because these stories will start to come out for every team. People will feel empowered to stand up to this type of behavior, and rightfully so.
I'm not. As stupid as it may sound I'm concerned that the NFL, as a business, will do whatever is best for them rather than everyone involved.
Fine. Do you argue that that controversy is very good for the journalism business then?
Is there any evidence that he isn't biased? Cause right now, its like 10-0 in favor of his bias.
I'm not just randomly demanding evidence. people are acting like I'm a crazy homer because I don't readily except that he's guilty of the thing at the golf course. They are the ones considering him guilty without a stitch of evidence.
It really depends on the controversy. For example, I'm pretty sure the current Dolphins story doesn't "sell" nearly as well as people believe. How much "business" did Cole do with his NFP piece? It gets tweeted a lot, but that's about it. Yet tweets don't make business. In fact, tweets are what you do when there's no business to the story.
I would argue that Cole - along with Skolnick - was probably the best beat writer we've had in a long while. When he was working the beat, he did good, unbiased work. I wish I could say the same for Armando, Omar et al.
The real issue, of course, being that they aren't biased either. They're just terrible.
Narcissistic? Really? I don't see that, but maybe I am not looking for it hard enough.
having an undue fascination with oneself; vain.
Psychoanalysis . tending to derive erotic gratification from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes."
So you think he likes to admire himself in the mirror and masturbate?
He'd been drinking and was imitating Pouncey, who was laughing at it and didn't seem offended, considering they later hugged and all. So why should that bother you?
Is there a copy of that police report online somewhere that we can all take a look at?
I said Dolphins hater, and High 5 gate is enough reason for me.
Where did you meet him to talk to him? How long did the conversation last? Are you sure it was proof of his personal feelings about the Dolphins?
I have not seen proof of that. Where may I see it?
Why do I get the feeling Ted Wells will release his report days before we play the Patriots again?
Week 17, before we play the Jets for the final wildcard spot.
The President is narcissistic. Incognito is just a jerk.
Forget me, does it bother Ross that one of his employees is doing that on camera?
If it does then that's it.
It was Halloween. A couple of players dressed up as ghosts. It goes downhill from there.
The most significant thing to my mind about the accuracy of the police report and that it was a bona fide complaint is the reaction of the Dolphins and Richie Incognito since the story was published. Richie and the Dolphins have had plenty of things to say about the Martin issue, but they've said nothing about the police complaint. If they were innocents in this matter being preyed upon by a gold digging harridan then why are we hearing nothing but crickets chirping? No leaks from un-named sources giving information that it was an ungrounded complaint. If you're clean you don't stand by and let your reputation get trashed, especially when you have dozens of reporters who'd be grateful for an exclusive.