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Rewatched the buc game.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    (On Landry in game vs Bucs)

    I saw one around the seven and a half minute mark in the 2nd half.

    He is in the slot, and his defender makes a great tackle on Darkwa in the backfield. It looks as if he intends to go for the block then immediately shoots out for the open field. He had a good chance to at least chip the guy. I dunno. Looks like he was on an entirely different page on that one. Maybe he misunderstood his duties on that play, esp. given it was a run-option type thing. His opportunity to block the player was there, for sure.
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the play he's refferring to happens at 7:39 in the 2nd quarter, imo, he doesn't think he can get to the player to block him so he heads upfield, it just so happens that his responsibility made the play behind the Los..don't think it was from a lack of effort, just a split second thought process where he was like " fu&$ it, I ain't gonna get him so might as well go find someone else"
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's a mindset. And if you really pay attention to what he does on that play, he does it twice, not just the one time. He also does the same thing with the linebacker. He's just a guy that likes to check out of blocks rather than check into them.
     
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  4. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    On the TD drive in the 2nd half, I saw a few plays of him blocking admirably against CBs. In some of the college tape, he throws a nice block on a D-lineman on a running play.

    I am just not sure that I have seen enough of this other side of him to see this being an issue. He should have stuck his nose in there on the Darkwa loss, for sure. That was so bad. And when I took a closer look, he whiffs, then heads upfield as if he is still looking for someone to block. Had to take another look at it. I thought he was confused, maybe thinking the option may have been to him. But it was just plain out lack of effort.

    Just from the little I have seen, though, he seems to not have any issue at throwing blocks on anyone. I have not seen enough of the poor effort guy to sway my decision, but I will surely note it. That play was just piss poor, and along with the false start, Darkwa was just put in a crappy position to make anything happen. This O-line needs to shore up some things in the run-blocking category as well.

    I wonder if Miami is going to be one of those "pass to open up the run game" teams?
     
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  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've rarely seen blocking from him I'd describe as "admirable". That's just being honest. I see "admirable" all the time in the film I watch of all these receivers coming out. I know what it looks like. Landry's effort is usually so-so on the good occasions, and shockingly bad on some occasions as well.

    He did the same thing against the Falcons. I forget who it was I was talking about it with, maybe Stitches. He was out front of a screen and he looked like he was intentionally getting out of the way so he wouldn't have to block the guy.

    If Miami is a pass to open up the run team then they're not really operating by the spirit of Chip Kelly's offense, which would be a little disappointing.
     
  6. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I was more or less regarding his effort. He is small-ish, so at least sticking his nose in there and giving a solid effort I think would deem the effort 'admirable'. While he did get handled on one play I saw, his player was not going to make a play on the ball. This is good. Although he lost his individual battle from a physical standpoint, he did contain the guy. Win for Landry and the scheme.

    I do not expect Brandon Marshall type blocking from him, but if he puts in the effort (which, let's see if he continues to whiff on some of these plays), I think that's what we can expect from a guy his size. Maybe this guy is a whiffer? I sure as hell hope he is not, but I will certainly pay closer attention to it.
     
  7. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    They may not have much of a choice.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I was talking about effort as well.
     
  9. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Really? You're just not being harsh on the guy?

    C'mon, I think the guy put some effort into some of those blocks. I really do. I'm not watching tape and scrutinizing technique, etc. But from face value, he looks to put in good effort when he gets his hands on someone.

    I wish I had the time and resources, but I will pay closer attention to see if I can see what you are seeing. At this point, I just do not see it.

    *Time for lunch and golf!
     
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  10. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    What ever our offense looks like.....

    In the end....I feel pretty confident that at least we wont be playing 4 downs and a cloud of dust....should be fun to watch!
     
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  11. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Question about the running game. Have we been running out of the shotgun mostly or just singleback? I ask because I see we clearly do a run fake out of the shotgun but have we actually handed it off yet?
     
  12. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yeah the first play of the Tampa game was a run out of shotgun. There have been a few of them.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If you don't agree with me that's fine. We don't have to agree. It's not like I set out in my evaluation of a player thinking I don't like this guy and I'm going to find reasons why. The tape speaks to me and tells me what to think. When I watched Landry's tape at LSU I saw instances of so-so effort in blocking interspersed with a bunch of instances of "I bet you got yelled at for that" moments. And so far this preseason, I've seen the same.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Been running almost exclusively out of the shotgun or pistol, thus far. I like that.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think it's more than a few. I would be surprised if it were less than 70% of our runs.
     
  16. Zounds

    Zounds New Member

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    Sims is the primary target. He was open - about as open as you can get with a middle hook - and Tannehill threw it. That's exactly what the play called for. A short route just underneath the LB shell. It wasn't forced. If Sims is the primary target and is open, the QB shouldn't be looking all over the field to see if someone is more open. At that point you loose the opportunity on a route like Sims ran, which is designed to gain a millisecond of separation. I mean, you can go back and watch the video of any QB and find players that might be more open that the guy they threw it to. I think this is just nitpicking. Plus #36 on Tampa is playing the right side with his head turned toward Tannehill, passing off the WR to the safety. With Miller 5 yards in the backfield, I dont think he gets many yards even if Tannehill saw him.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't agree with that. Contrary to popular myth, the first read is not staring at the receiver and deciding whether he's open or not. His first read is a defensive key read and he's supposed to progress from there. In this case he's got a deep umbrella look and receivers on the perimeter both running vertically. His next step on the progression could easily have been the throw to the flat as opposed to a risky throw into traffic. Two players were on top of Sims the moment the ball arrived, tackling him, swiping at the ball and trying to knock it away before Sims had much time to secure it. The less risky throw was the throw to the flat.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hells yes...hopefully were saving the Qb keeper for the reg season.
     
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  19. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Most reads go inside to out. Generally the QB will look at the quick middle throw and decide if it's open or too risky. If he decides it isn't then (and depending on down and distance) he makes the throw. I don't have any problem with RT deciding the throw wasn't too risky. It's a short throw to a big target. He obviously completed it and it's the kind of throw he made repeatedly last season. There are always some legit criticisms that can be made against even elite QBs every game. I just don't see this decision as one of them.
     
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  20. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Would their be instances where you would not want to hit the back in the flat if you can make the play down the field...I think theres a degree of setting defenses up down the road for something right?

    What I do like is the fact that....there was no hesitation at least. He made the read...was confident in it and his throw...right or wrong read...I think its likely in this offense with the space..their will be times where there are multiple options, Id be worried if he kept hesitating till he found the best one....
     
  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Colmax, your posts are always well thought out. You really would fit in well with the level of posting and discussion in Club, imo.

    Plus, you'd like some of the great info we get in there that mainstream peeps don't have access to.

    Just my opinion. I don't get a commission. lol Selfishly though, I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts in our discussions in there.
     
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  22. keithjackson

    keithjackson Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It should be said that Tannehill did just previously complete a similar ball out to Miller twice already in that quarter. We don't know, there may have been a "don't go to the well too often" notion, or using certain routes to keep other routes open, or the aforementioned "it's preseason so let's try to diversify by getting Sims a target" directive - especially on a first down in a drive where we were converting with ease.
     
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  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I've always liked Will D. My one concern was the number of mental gaffes, but those are reducing now. He plays like he intends to win, and is sensibly aggressive at this point. Plus, his change of direction is EXCEPTIONAL.

    His tackling is improving from terrible to acceptable.

    I said before, and still believe, he projects to be a Tracy Porter in this league and will have some big plays like Porter's Superbowl winning INT for a TD.

    BUT --- let's not assume all the kinks have been worked out. As he is increasingly exposed to more snaps, better WRs and game=planned Offensive Co-ordinator plays in the regular season he will blow some plays here and there. I just think he's reducing the risk and frequency of that to the point where he is far more of an asset than a liability on the field.

    Will Davis will be the best corner we drafted last year. Not Jamar Taylor, despite physical stats.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think he was just making the throw and read he's made a hundred times before.

    This goes back to when there was a string of interceptions in practice and Tannehill said the reason there was a string of interceptions was because the coaches were asking him to try out some different throws than what he's used to against different looks. This is why I keep calling these concepts because from Tannehill's perspective when he's in X play and he gets a Y look, Z is the throw that beats it. That's the thinking. It's conceptual more so than it is staring at a receiver and making a determination of whether he's open or not, then moving onto a different receiver. The "reads" are defensive key reads and as you progress through them you're probably more accurately reading two receivers at a time. Sometimes three, I think. So the "read" isn't really staring at this guy then deciding yay or nay, then moving onto this guy. It's more staring at a defensive coverage and deciding which of these two players to hit, or if that coverage is no good, progressing to a different part of the defense.

    Or perhaps more accurately reading a defensive key (middle of the field) that tells you which concept you're going to work (pick a side), then making that read (which tells you which player to throw to), or seeing something you don't like that causes you to check off the whole concept at which point you hit your outlet. That's a common way to do it.

    Either way since it's concept-based, which throw tends to work against which defense when you're in which play, I think that's why the coaches wanted to try some different throws than what Tannehill had experience with that might work against those defenses. I was a bit disappointed when Tannehill seemed to decide the new ideas didn't work, and so they were gonna scrap the new ideas.

    If you watch Phil Rivers play I think he's a guy that knows that flat throw if well timed and executed is going to beat that defense, and he will throw it fairly often. Tannehill doesn't have much experience doing that, he has a lot more experience hitting up that stick route to the tight end.

    Later in the game on the 3rd down where Brian Hartline couldn't haul in a ball as Johnthan Banks came down on him...again I think this is part of the "old versus new" thing. With the numbers advantage to the right side and the softer man coverage on Wallace I think that could have been the more prudent idea of which throw is going to beat this coverage. But to Tannehill, Brian Hartline is his reliable guy. He's got him singled up on the left side, and he trusts him to run that route, get open and secure the ball...even if the corner is playing it aggressively. To Tannehill, this is how you beat this defense. I think a different idea for how to beat it might have been better, though.
     
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  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Jordan does not need to make the cut at the end of preseason. They should carry 9 at the start of the season. I'd keep Shelby too.
     
  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree with your opinion that Davis will probably end up being a better CB than Taylor. Right now in fact, Davis looks like the best player taken by the Dolphins in the entire 2013 draft.

    Jordan has yet to show that he deserved to be the first defensive player taken in the draft in 2013. In fact he hasn't shown that he should have even been a first round pick at all.

    Taylor appears to have the skills to play the CB position in the NFL. Yet he just doesn't seem to be able to bring it to the field on game day. Once Jones comes back after the fourth game and Wilson and Davis become the 5th and 6th DB's, that won't leave much playing time for Taylor this season.

    Thomas should never have been drafted before the 7th round last year and that would have even been too high. Unless the Dolphins have a sudden rash of injuries on the offensive line in the next two weeks, I just can't imagine that Thomas will be on this roster in 2014.

    Jenkins, Sims, and Gillislee are all mediocre talents who will probably make the team because their just isn't a lot of talent on the roster in the positions they play. None of these players appear to be the type player you want to build your team around, but they can always contribute on special teams.

    Sturgis was praised last year simply because he wasn't Carpenter. Yes he might have a stronger leg on kickoff, but he had a less productive year as a field goal kicker than Carpenter had with the Bills.
    Because of his groin injury, he appears to have no chance to make the team this season.

    Jones was an okay ST player last year, but it doesn't appear he will make the team this year.

    So prior to the 2013 draft, many fans were happy with the fact the Dolphins had so many draft picks and it was the draft that was suppose to bring in a bevy of young talent. A year later and the best player from that entire draft appears to be a CB taken in the third round. Right now there is not a single projected starter on this team from the 2013 draft.

    All I can say is, Jeff Ireland did a great job of screwing the Dolphins once again by totally wasting another Dolphins draft. Of course, Ross has no one but himself to blame for the 2013 draft because he was the owner who stuck by a GM who clearly had no idea what he was doing.

    Compared to Ireland, Hickey suddenly looks like a genius as the GM of the Dolphins. His selection of James and Landry in the first two rounds already looks superior to any first two picks Ireland selected during any draft in his six years with the Dolphins.
     
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  27. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    That group is the most interesting to watch as far as the last 3-4 spots, it's very competitive.
    Rbs are tight too for the last spot. I thought originally Thigpen would make it for sure because of his versatility, but coaches gave Landry return duties in the last game, and it looks like he was told not to run it back but simply practice catching. :-)

    I think Lbs and TEs are set as well as the DBs and WRs for the most part, save for possibly the last spot.


    (I was disappointed in Shelby's lackluster effort on the TD. He had a nice stunt sack later in the game, but edge rushing looked weak.)
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Taylor played 29 snaps and Davis played 30 against TB. They threw at Taylor one time unsuccessfully. They threw at Davis 3 times with one completion. How does that translate into Taylor not bringing it on game day?

    It is too soon to say whether James and Landry are better than any first two picks by Ireland. I think Odrick and Misi were pretty solid first two picks.
     
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  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Cannot recall whether it was Williams #1 or Landry, but one of them let a punt hit the ground and roll that they could have fair caught and it gave TB something like 20 yards of field position.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Porter is mostly a zone corner. I don't see the comparison. Davis has shown in his short time in the league that he possesses some fine natural man cover skills.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    club costs $22 for a year and $15 for 6 months, as I recall.
     
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  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    While I felt at the time and currently that Odrick and Misi were solid picks, I also felt then and now that they missed the opportunity to take the great player in Earl Thomas. We're still missing that type of player now. Delmas and Jones are both in the box S types rather than center fielders.

    I do think Taylor will be fine given time, but Davis looks like the better player right now.

    Jordan is a talent, but it seems like the coaching staff is screwing him up. But he also may just be a dumb guy.

    Sims looks like a solid pick. And Jenkins may be an eventual starter.

    Sturgis was good until he got injured. If he can't stay healthy then that may doom him. It's a shame b/c he's good otherwise.

    Gillislee is mediocre and Jones was a good STs guy.

    Looks like three eventual starters and a solid #2 TE. I don't see that as a horrible draft outside of possibly missing on Jordan. When you trade up that high you want it to be for the sure thing (or as near as possible).
     
  33. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    In this game Grimes saves 7 points, play of the game.

    Matt Moore is a keeper we are lucky to have him behind Tannehill.

    The receiving corp has big potential.

    Center is a concern can no one stay healthy?
     
  34. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    If he ever figures out the double-move, he'll be deadly.
     
  35. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen a lot of negative comments on Lamar Miller this preseason, sure the stats on his carries aren't great but I think the interior of the line is to blame there. I really like how we are using him more in the passing game, he had a few nice catches out of the backfield against Tampa.
     
  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I'm glad we have Knowshon to push him too. Last year he was pretty much "the guy." This year he's got another RB to truly worry about. I REALLY hope KM get's some action against Dallas.
     
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  37. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    It's never too early to take a shot at Irish. It's like saying "Amen" at church around here, always appropriate, the go to phrase when you have nothing else to say.
     
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  38. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    Also, the offseason predictions of Gibson not making the team look ridiculous now. The guy has a good shot at 1000 yards this year Tannehill looks extremely comfortable with him. The only reason he might not get 1000 IMO is because of the depth we have.
     
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  39. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I never once thought you evaluated players with bias. This also doesn't mean I disagree with you at all, I just haven't seen it for myself with any consistency (although, the cruddy effort on the Darkwa loss opened my eyes a bit).

    I just do not have the resources or time, but I cannot say with any confidence that Landry is "this guy" or "that guy" now that I have heard your side, which is semi-disappointing.
     
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  40. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the sentiment, man!

    (I'm not obligated to give you some kind of internet reach-around or anything, am I? I mean, I will. I just have to run it by the wife and children first) :lol:
     
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