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Richard Marshall

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by wpgfishfan, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. wpgfishfan

    wpgfishfan Member

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    Why is no one upset at this move. Taylor was hurt before be was released for $$$. Now with Davis and maybe Patterson gone that's a risky play for someone who was battling to be the starter
     
  2. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Taylor released for $...????

    Patterson maybe gone??

    I didn't like Marshall being released because he was a very good option for safety depth. I have a very low opinion of Jimmy Wilson and I don't think McCray is ready yet.

    Looked like a pure money move to me, and we have plenty of cap.

    We can never be sure we know the real story. Maybe they were not confident his back was going to be O.K. going forward.
     
  3. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Did you not watch last year? He sucks. Good move by the front office.
     
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  4. NolePhin15

    NolePhin15 Well-Known Member

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    This. He just might have been not that good.
     
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  5. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    There are 7 CB on the team and Wilson can play the dime. You can't keep everyone.
     
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  6. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Taylor released? News to me.
     
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  7. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He got hurt in the 2nd game. Played two more while hurt. He was out the last 12 games. That is not enough of a picture of him to declare he sucks.
     
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  8. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I think WPG is saying that Taylor had been hurt before Marshall was released. Factually, that is correct. Was Marshall released because he was overpaid? Was he released because he isn't very good. Well, it's a little bit of both. Unfortunately, Will Davis has also gotten hurt and Taylor has now had a recurrence of the injury, so guys like RJ Stanford, Nolan Carroll and Jimmy Wilson are going to be needed more than they should be in an ideal situation.
     
  9. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    We had a lot of success blitzing Wilson from the nickel a few years back and from one day to the next they stopped blitzing him. Who knows anymore.
     
  10. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Not enough for you maybe. I thought he was overrated garbage when we first signed him. 4 games and how ever many pass interferences later, he never showed the slightest potential.

    I have a ton of concerns about camp warrior Will Davis too...
     
  11. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    That's a little unfair since he did show something in preseason, and he showed it in college before that too. This isn't Brian Manning or Brandon London fading when the pads come on and plays get real. And sorry, I don't mean in any way that you shouldn't have concerns (I do too), it just seems like you're calling him a "camp warrior" in a derogatory way.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, this is one of the moves Ireland will be judged on when the season ends, if it is a track meet in our secondary with Cb's in the "trail cover" position, it falls on his desk.

    I personally thought Wilson should have been on the bubble over Marshall, then Carrol then Stanford.

    Great thing about the NFL, if we lose, there is no hiding it, no speech can cover for it.
     
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  13. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    That's completely understandable...but I think some (myself included) at least wonder a little bit, why he was let go when he's generally viewed as better than everybody else below #2 on the depth list...unless of course the team is really high on the rooks, which I guess would be the most reasonable explanation.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He was very good in 2011 for Arizona, in every coverage matrix, such as coverage snaps per target (2nd best among corners), yards allowed per coverage snap (8th fewest), and coverage snaps per reception (3rd best). QB rating on passes into his coverage was a 64.9, 13th lowest among corners.
    He was also the best corner in the league in run stop percentage.
    Considering he got hurt in the 2nd game and tried to play through it for that game and 2 more, I see no reason whatsoever to use 2012 as typical of his ability. I consider his 500 snaps in coverage in 2011, while healthy, as painting a more accurate picture.

    3 of his 4 penalties last season came after he injured his back. You may like to think that his physical condition played no part in them, but I would disagree. Those 3 penalties came in the Jets game, where also had one int, 2 passes defensed, gave up no TDs, and allowed a passer rating of 40.4
     
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  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Really?

    So the plan was to rely on Taylor and Davis? Or Carrol and Wilson?

    By waiving him we exposed ourselves to paper thin depth, this with Taylor coming off of injury and having no idea how he will play when the games start, meaning Nolan "What are ball skills" Carrol is our #3 Cb now.
     
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  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The ONLY reason to keep any of Carroll, Wilson or Stanford over Marshall was one thing only. Contract. One that Ireland himself signed Marshall to. We did not keep the better corner, we kept the cheapest. That doesn't sit well with me.
     
  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    This...
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Spot on Padre! Spot ******* on!!! :sad:
     
  19. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    I watched MArshall when he was here in Carolina....and when he signed this big deal in Miami I threw the closest thing to me across the room. When he was cut I nodded my head because I saw it coming like Marty McFly. Hes a decent corner. MAYBE. IMO hes a better safety. He wasnt worth the money here with Patterson making money and doing better in camp, and Patterson wasnt coming off a back injury. It was the wrong move to sign him, it was the better move to cut him.
     
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  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Let's add to the mix, we lost 3 Cb's in basically the two weeks since Marshall was waived, w/ caused us to lose Francis and Randall from the DT depth, though at the time Taylor and Patterson were not known to be injured.

    Basically this is a classic case of a cap move blowing up in the GM's face.
     
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  21. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    We kept the better of the two between Marshall and Patterson. Ireland realized he signed Marshall to a bad deal and cut bait.
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    To me, it makes sense to let your rookies play the nickel and dime spots, in hopes they'll get experience for eventually taking over the 1 and 2 spots. If you rate Marshall a (arbitrary number) 56 out of a 100 and Taylor and Davis are each a 50/100 but are cheaper and have higher ceilings, then it makes more sense to cut Marshall and save some cash while not taking away valuable reps for Taylor and Davis.

    Taylor and Davis probably aren't expected to be out long, so we carry a couple of DBs until they get back, drop those guys, promote Tyms and McNutt and probably bring back a Randall (or whoever) on the PS.
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I am not disagreeing with that. The other 3 corners he kept instead of Marshall though, are all cheap garbage and that is the absolute only reason he did so.
     
  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Yep...has to be the only explanation from where I'm sitting...Taylor/Davis coming up gimpy is just real bad timing.
     
  25. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Jamar Taylor is going to end up better than Richard Marshall. Hell, in his limited reps in preseason, Taylor looked better than Marshall did this preseason. And I'd argue there wasn't much of a drop off with Nolan Carroll taking over for Marshall last year. Will Davis is the only CB on the roster that IMO, is not ready for the NFL regular season. He's too inconsistent, and is a BAD tackler. But, most teams are generally going to keep and develop a 3rd round pick over and overrated, overpaid veteran. Miami's shown it's going to go with youth over experience when battles are close.
     
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  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If you rate Marshall a 56 of 100, then I'd rate any of Stanford, Carroll or Wilson no better than a 26 of 100. They were all 3 cheap and mediocre corners who were kept instead of Marshall, only because they are signed to cheap deals. Ireland chose to not keep the better corner, he chose to keep the cheaper corners.
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, this Ireland/Aponte being cute, no one can see every possible injury that could happen, but Marshall v Carroll in a purely football sense is no contest, ditto Wilson and Stanford, meaning draft picks of dubious quality v Marshall.

    Add in Taylor coming off of injury and to me this was simply a bad move.

    Ireland simply does not understand hedge betting, he's great at making up for it via "acorns", better to not put the team in this situation in the first place.
     
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  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Going to be=Losses

    I've seen this movie before R4.

    Add in, we lost Francis to the pats, which compounds the error, or MAY compound the error.
     
  29. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Because he looked above average against 3rd stringers? C'mon padre, you know better than that.

    I highly doubt cutting Marshall and not being able to stash A.J. Francis on the practice squad are going to cost the Dolphins games this year.
     
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  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Taylor may very well end up being better than Marshall. However in the mean time, we have football games to play, and hopefully win while waiting for him to get healthy. Anyone who doesn't think we'd stronger in the secondary today or this season with Marshall still on the roster is being obtuse IMO.

    You could argue all you want that Carroll isn't much worse than Marshall, but you may as well talk to the wall, because there is no way I'm buying that bill of goods. Carroll blows in every way, except maybe run defense. He is very stiff and robotic in coverage and has next to no ball skills.
     
  31. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Well it's not like Ireland slams a couple shots of tequila, puts on a blindfold, and tosses a dart at a board of names... lol...

    These decisions are coming from the coaches as to who they want to keep to work their schemes and who isn't getting it and gets released.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Which is a helluva lot more than can be said for Carroll, Stanford or Wilson.
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Again, Taylor and Davis will probably get the start over them once they're healthy. Marshall would have cost a LOT of money, so waiting before cutting Marshall would have just been a financial misstep.

    We are talking about the a game or three before Taylor or Davis takes over the nickel spot. Most teams teams don't have stellar players at the nickel or dime spots.
     
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  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    You cannot know that R4, and keep in mind, he was on his way to a ST meeting when he got the news, so they wanted to keep him, that is one of many reasons why I say this move blew up in Ireland's face.

    Why add more questions?
     
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  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yet, the cost had to be paid due to injury questions, 1-3 games?

    Have you seen our first 5 games this year, it would be better to not have these questions even if it cost us some cap space.
     
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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Yes I have, no division opponents. 2 non conference opponents. 2 poor passing attacks.

    I don't know what people keep freaking out about, we have the same nickel and dime CBs we had last year, UNTIL 2 very promising rookies come back from injuries and we have better #1 and #2 CBs than last year, plus our safeties will probably be improved.

    We are gnashing our teeth at the 2 least important defensive spots (nickel & dime CBs) for a small handful of games.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Having the same nickel and dime corners as last year is reason enough to be freaking out all by itself. While we have seen some glimpses of talent in Taylor, he hasn't come close to proving he can be healthy at all for any length of time.
    Who decides the nickel and dime backs are the least important positions? Bad or mediocre ones can get your secondary lit up like crazy.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Yeah, ok, nickel and dime cbs are vitally important. That's why there always THE BEST CBs you have on the team. Our biggest problems were on offense last year. Hell, our kicker cost us more games than our dime CB did.
     
  39. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Has Richard Marshal been picked up by anyone? And I have a feeling we are going to regret losing AJ Frances, he will be a starter somewhere eventually. Same may be said for Randall one day.
     
  40. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    I just don't understand the infatuation with Richard Marshall then. Overrated and overpaid. There's no real way to slice it other than that. Cutting him probably allows Miami to re-sign a Brent Grimes or a Paul Soliai next year as opposed to keeping Marshall this year. It was the right move. If Jamar Taylor and/or Will Davis are back by week 2, well Miami's got bigger problems if Travis Benjamin is burning Jimmy Wilson or Nolan Carroll to win the game for the Browns.
     
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