Both things can be true. Richie can be both a nice guy to Wallace and a bully to Martin and other young players.

The fact that Wallace, Grimes, Odrick and a few others say they liked him doesn't change anything. I'm sure at practice and during the games he was a great teammate. Those guys also didn't have to deal with him in meetings and other oline only functions

 

No surprise, Martin should have taken notes, he did of course, and of course that is not being mentioned "not your fault man"

Lost in the either, fine either way.

 

Not surprising.

This is all bullshiznit.

What's funny is seeing these "sports journalists" talk about the importance of finding out if things like this happen in all locker rooms when they all damn well know they do.
It's also funny seeing some of these ex NFL guys now as analysts act like it's shocking that banter, hazing, etc. go on in locker rooms.
They are all hypocrites..... HUGE hypocrites.

Also I'm not at all fazed by these text messages or phone messages.
I've seen and heard much worse between friends that get along on a daily basis.

This is an awful witch hunt that the media has been all to willing to blow out of proportion.

 

Yep, any sort of objectivity is out the window, the fact they still hung together and pulled pranks in training camp...nope...in April he talked some ish and THAT is the issue.

Hillarious, sad to see people buying it tbh.

FWIW, my position is this, Richie was just not very good this year, hell, everyone outside of Pouncey was not very good this year, if this gets Martin and him off the field in 2013 then I do not mind a bit.

Hearing Keyshawn Johnson go in though, was particularly hippocritical, and yet, this is also never mentioned.

People kinda stupid CR

 

I want to agree...and I do to a certain extent...but theres also a lot of weird **** going on about it...whats with his Dads posts? Whats the real timeline of events and texts? etc.

If those texts/voicemails were from training camp - this stinks as a witch hunt. If those texts were within the last week or two... this stinks like Incognito is a rotten human being. Maybe I'm missing one of the stories - but I'm yet to see any actual timeline associated with half these insults.

Was Incognitos language inappropriate even if it was meant as friendly joking? Probably...but so what? Tons of people talk like that to people they think of as friends...so what was the real intent at the time?

Just not enough facts to draw any real conclusion...either way - this is just a bizarre situation. Might be more so than the whole Ricky Williams debacle or Saban stories for my lifetime at least....sigh...

When does it end and when does this team get its self righted?

 

You just hit the nail on the head.
I have spanish friends that call me Gringo and Redneck all the time jokingly.
We banter back and forth innocently but if you taped typed out the conversations it would look like two people about to get into a race war.

Interesting that Martin and Incognito continued to hang out after that and that Martin just recently texted Incognito to tell him it's not his fault.
Would he do that if he thought Incognito was a raging racist.
Absurdity abounds.

 

This is kind of where I wonder about the whole situation... Did Incognito overestimate the camaraderie he thought he had with Martin? What was the intent of the texts/messages?

I've said things to some of my best friends that could point to me as being a horrible, horrible person if the wrong individual heard it... But it was with my friend, who gave as good as he got...and we always laughed about it.

I don't know. I'm just disappointed, because I really believe Richie was trying hard to be a better person...

 

Richie is a thug and a terrible human being (has a history of being a huge A-hole) , candy coating this and pretending its all in locker room jock fun is silly and a bit delusional.

 

What is surprising to other players and coaches and etc. is that the Dolphin locker room culture didn't have problems with Richie. A significant disconnect between the Dolphins and how the rest of the league might see this. I do find it interesting that many of the black players had no issues with Richie, but many of the former NFL black players did. And of course we know of some who had an issue with him on the field. I just find that disconnect interesting. Support from the locker room for Richie, but questions abound from others outside the locker room, and not just fans and media, but NFL folks (players, coaches, gms).

 

There is a part of me that says Incognito is consistently a prankster and tough minded, but I do believe he crossed the line, support or not from teammates.

 

not so strange to me. you are talking about two different groups here. those that know RI and those that know of RI. those that know him are sticking by him. those that know of him are blasting him and siding on the PC side of things.

 

Not sure about the bolded. Mike Wallace just came from a different locker room, and he's gone on record saying he liked Richie and wished he was still here. He also mentioned that this stuff was just stuff that goes on in NFL locker rooms, or something to that effect. Maybe the financial stuff is a little high here in Miami, but I get the sense from his comments that it probably wasn't much if any different in Pittsburgh. I bet if Brandon Gibson was asked, he'd say it wasn't much different in St. Louis. Same with Ellerbe and Wheeler. That's just my sense, and I could be wrong.

 

Just wondering, have you ever been within 50 feet of Incognito? Then shhhhhhh.

 

The story is so bizarre... Either way, it makes no difference. Richie is gone and isn't coming back. It's too much of a PR nightmare, right or wrong. The media has spoken and they're in control of the narrative at this point.

 

Just a guess but I'm on the Stringer Bell bandwagon with this. Martin wanted out for whatever reason and the team balked at paying the rest of his salary so his reps, lawyers, parents etc said "oh yeah?"...

 

I think the worst is over. Unless the vid of Incognito whipping a bound and gagged Martin with a water hose is yet to surface. They're damn sure not going to get anyone in the locker room to talk.


I hope the whole team comes out Monday with 71 on one cleat and 68 on the other before laying a beat down on Tampa. Let these media clowns know just how irrelevant they really are.

 

Suspened in 2003 and 2004 by TWO different coaches ,flagged as not draftable by many teams due to character issues , voted dirtiest player in the NFL , fighting with his head coach .......if you ignore history than shhhhhhhh yourself! The guy is a dirt bag that just imploded the team with his buffoonery instead of trying to improve it's horrible o-line .

 

Almost 10 yrs ago..once again you are being spoon fed.

Martin thought him such a jerk, that heck they used to hang out together.

 

What is sad here is you have one player who probably will not play again in Richie, and another, Martin, who will likely struggle to gain the trust of any locker room, and most likely not the Dolphins. These mistakes in life have real consequences. Whatever support Richie has is not going to save him here. My concern is that some team mates may have enabled or tolerated Richie to a point that his behavior was perceived as acceptable by most. I liked Richie, but he needed as much mentoring as he was supposed to be giving out. That is my view.

 

They are treating this harder than they treated Hernandez, but then Cogs is not a Patriot.

 

I very much suspect the fact is that Richie sent that with the best intentions way back when, meaning no harm no foul, and just joking around...if Jmart was that upset by it to let it stew all this time - there were a million chances to have handled it differently. However - we're still missing info on the timeline, what was said to philbin, if anything was ever said to Richie etc. Its just a bizarre situation. I have a feeling that Cogs is being made into far more of a scapegoat than deserved, either way. Not saying hes faultless at all - but its hard to imagine at this point, that hes ever remembered fairly if the facts eventually tell a pretty clean tale for his involvement. Such is life in the spotlight I guess.

 

Incognito is done here, cut him today.....Martin is done here, cut him today......Do not let this thing fester and build.....the only way it happens is if you cancel it right now and the blood hungry media goes away as to this story....

I am in the camp of Incognito besides being the "that guy" jock didn't do much wrong, Martin is a steaming pile of ****....once you lie the way he did to the Coach of an organization, that in turn got him and this organization in the jackpot it is in, you just closed a door that cant be opened again....the trust is gone......

Any shock which way the draft goes next May boys?

 

B/c, if one has not noticed, BSPN is seeing this as a political/cultural issue, thus they launch a social cause to "change the world". In this case cultures inside of NFL locker rooms, weakness is now to be tolerated.

What is hillarious is BSPN USED to have a segment called "you've been jacked up", concussion issue arise, and that was put to a stop, and you cannot even find the old segments on youtube.

That is how they work, and yet some naive waifs continue to feed at their trough of bull****.

 

And the NFL wants to make an example of Incognito and Martin because "bullying" is an easier topic to discuss than one of their players being a murderer. They wanted to sweep that under the rug ASAP.

 

Among other things, "bullying" is a social cause the lame brained sports media can get behind, "players who are thugs and yet paid millions b/c they contribute on the field, yet remain thugs" is beyond what they feel is the usual sports fans intellect.

Bullying=bad (even in a gm where you will get bullied on the field legally)
Thug life=Uhm, yeah

 

Uhm, I don't know where you were but the Hernandez thing was a pretty big story and Kraft and Belichick got raked over the coals about it, tot he point that Belichick had to give an honest to god press conference where he actually answered questions like a human being and not the robot he usually is.

There is no bias against Miami by ESPN or any other media. For all the decrying by the internet tough guys here that Martin was a weak punk, those same people sure do love playing the victim.

 

This has been played BRILLIANTLY by Martin and his parents. They have created a false controversy and have ultimately bullied Incognito 10000x harder than Martin was bullied.

Not only did they ensure for themselves a big payout through either a lawsuit or settlement, but they have effectively ruined Cogs career, reputation and ability to earn income.

On top of that, they were able to exploit the race factor, which makes it universally impossible for the sheeple in the mainstream media, whom have their own agendas, to take an objective look at this.

Anyone that keeps text messages and VM's handy 6 month later clearly has an agenda. I'm sure his parents coached him well on the art of lawsuits and evidence. Too bad Incognito was stupid enough to take the bait.

 

Bravo!

 

The culture of these locker rooms should change.

This David Shaw on Martin and locker room culture

http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawa...nfords-shaw-proud-jonathan-martin-standing-up

You don't need to be involved in this nonsense to have a close team or win games. The culture is stupid and serves absolutely no purpose other than to give people like Incognito to act like the a-holes they are.

Just because something is common doesn't make it right. Cultures need to change and evolve. It wasn't that long ago half this country thought segregation was ok. In many other countries right now it's ok for women to be barred from receiving an education.

Guess what? Those cultures are wrong. And once the culture of the locker room changes everyone will realize how dumb what they were doing was and that things are just as good if not better

 

So Martin was playing a long con on Incognito, the Dolphins, the league? He baited Incognito into calling him a half n-word?

Do you have any idea how insane this post is?

Maybe Martin was involved in the Sandy hook conspiracy too. Have we checked into that?

 

I want to know where Jim Turner was during this ****ty mess. He should be fired.

 

If it was part of the usual banter in the locker room, yes.

There is a video of Cogs calling Pouncey the N word and Pouncy walking right up to him and hugging him.
This is one sequence of texts or VM's selectively given to the media by Martin, that have been saved for over 6 months.

Why do you think he saved those messages? Why are they suddenly so relevant today?

Why has all this evidence been turned over to the media? All while Incognito is getting crucified while Martin is spending time in California relaxing, watching this sh*tstorm grow by the day?

Pretty impressive for an underachieving 2nd round OL that was just demoted and seemingly headed towards the waiver wire in the next few years.

 

"...the culture must change..."

Thanks for making my point for me, a college coach knows dickall about what an NFL locker room is like, or how it should be run, this boils down to a dominant culture where if you are meek or not mentally tough you will be eaten alive.

This is by design, as this no longer is a group of amateurs running around the field on scholarships, this is grown men with families they have to support and million dollar contracts.

 

Unfortunately for Richie this whole narrative plays into society's recent epiphany that bullying occurs (shocking I know!) in sports, school, etc., and you add racist language to it and its a "hate crime", theres simply no way for the Dolphins or the league to move on without assigning blame and ruining some lives. It is what it is.

I personally think that Martin has taken this to an absurd level and he isn't the victim that the press is making him out to be. There was no real reason other than litigation for this to become public knowledge. Martin wants to get paid so all of this comes out, sad really. I think Richie has his share of blame obviously, he was certainly crossing a line at some point but I don't think its anywhere near what the media is making it out to be.

Ryan Cooper apologized and came back but Richie is likely gone from the NFL? Who was really worse? Cooper's behavior was caught on film and obviously racist but his rant basically brought out the media for a week and went away. Not he's scoring touchdowns and no one cares. Michael Vick murdered animals for kicks and he's milking a huge contract again but Richie texted some idiotic stuff to Martin so he needs to go from the league? ESPN is garbage, their coverage has gone from speculative nonsense to a media assault on Richie that isn't about finding out the facts or actually talking about larger issues in society, its just a straight up attempt to destroy the guy.

I think Richie's actions are bad enough that he should have been cut and we should be moving on by this point but instead its a media firestorm led sadly enough by hypocritical former players (Keyshawn Johnson gets such a free pass for his racist bull ****) who have agenda's as talking heads now. The whole situation stinks, we should have been able to cut Richie and moved on but the way things are shaping up I can see our coaching staff and front office gone in the offseason. This sort of thing affects a lot of people and the idiots in the media.....particularly the former players and coaches/front office people should have treaded a lot more lightly than they did. The sports media is garbage right now, total garbage.

 

He saved them because he had a problem with a guy on the "leadership counsel" and probably wanted to make sure that if the crap ever hit the fan that he had evidence.

You've seen it from the other guys. Most of them liked Incognito. They may not have believed Martin if he came to them with complaints without evidence

 

And tell me how the hell what Incognito was doing was furthering that goal?

Players suceed if they can perform on the field. If what you're doing to another player is not assiting in moving towards that goal then you shouldn't be doing it, if you want to win. If you don;t want to win then I guess you can do whatever.

Fact is, there was absolutely no point to what Incognito was doing. Therefore he shouldn't be doing it.