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Roger Stone's JFK's book ... LBJ did the deed!

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by gafinfan, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That would not surprise me at all. Even as a Democrat, I'll say that LBJ was no good scum. Gulf of Tonkin and USS Liberty. 'nuff said. To include the conspiracy to murder a fine man like JFK at his feet would just fit. I know one thing for a fact. To believe LHO acted alone requires one to have their head buried in the sand or be in serious denial. Hell, the Zapruder tape alone proves the kill shot could not have been fired from the book depository.
     
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  3. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    That has been debunked, many times. The "kill" shot absolutely came from the book depository.
     
  4. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I've never seen it seriously debunked. Every shred of evidence I've seen is basically the opposite. You COULD be right, but I'd like to see where its been legitimately debunked.
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Bull Sh!t
     
  6. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I have yet to really look into all the JFK stuff. I've been meaning to for quite some time.
     
  7. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    http://www.livescience.com/41195-jfk-assassination-show.html

    It was debunked. Most of these conspiracy theories are complete and utter bull****.
     
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  8. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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  9. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    The Zapruder film shows Kennedy's head jerk backwards after he was hit. That led people to conclude he was shot from the front. But ballistic and forensic expert after expert will tell you that is wrong. The jerk backwards is a result of the muscles of the back and neck being traumatized. The head wound demands the "kill" shot came from the high rear angle.

    Clearly we are not going to convince you but Section 126 is smack dab correct!
     
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  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The exit wound, the bigger wound, is on the back of his head, at least in the photos I saw. Just because some ballistic experts say it is wrong, does not make it definitely true in this case that it's wrong. The head recoiling backwards upon impact is at least as likely to be from a kill shot coming from the front.

    If there is no conspiracy why were the probe files still sealed 5 decades later? What is there to hide?

    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/11/kennedy_probe_files_still_seal.html

    http://lubbockonline.com/editorials...ination-records-are-still-closed#.UvGpVPldUSY
     
  11. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    The head shot, from a professional stance, is something just not done if one wants to ensure success. Ask any trained sniper, its always center mass. That is only one of several reasons I question the commission's findings.

    To even suggest that a person (even though trained as a Marine but with no known continued practice after leaving the military and moving to Russia) can just pick up a $29 dollar gun and hit a 5" moving target is, to a person who has handled weapons from the time he was 9 years old and has at least a little success in that arena, laughable. In my lifetime I've seen only one person so talented and he was an Air Force trained marksman, gunsmith, and life long shooter.

    It takes practice, practice, and more practice. Plus a pro would never chose to fire from that position if he wanted to guarantee success with a rifle.
     
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  12. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    If LBJ was that nefarious why would he go to all that trouble and then not even attempt to get reelected?
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Spot on in all counts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :up:
     
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  14. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    The shot has been duplicated a billion times, and I CAN MAKE that shot..and I am not a trained Marine. it really isn't that difficult. BTW, JFK's head is not 5" in diameter. The car was hardly moving as well.

    Again..it's not much of a shot. If anybody here has taken deer at more than 75 yards and hit the sweet spot, then you too have made a BETTER shot than this.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    1. A billion times? Hyperbole much?
    2. Maybe possible. Most likely not with that piece of junk Carcano and it's antiquated scope.
    3. The shot was 88 yards that LHO supposedly made that somehow hit JFK in the front of the head and exited from the back.

    I know it's hard to accept that anyone in our govt could have committed such an evil deed as conspire to kill the president, and if it helps you sleep better at night, then by all means continue to believe LHO was just some nut who acted all alone.
     
  16. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    A) Yes. DUplicated MANY times, so a "Billion" is not that Hyperbolic".
    B) There was nothing wrong with that rifle. Another myth perpetuated by the conspiracy crowd.
    C) The bullet did not enter through the front and exit through the back.

    I used to buy into these conspiracy theories. I then learned about the evidence and the many "conspiracy" books.
     
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  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    How much experience do you have with a 6.5 Carano? I own one. They're junk.
    The Zapruder Tape proves to me that he was hit in the front. Feel free to believe the Warren Commission. I've seen enough kill shots to know better than to believe their lie. The hole in the back of the head was bigger anyway, indicating exit, even if the tape did not show it.
    Also interesting that LHO was alleged to have fired 3 shots, yet on the tape with the dictabelt recording of Dallas Police Channel 1 superimposed, 4 shots can be heard, the final two very close together. Though that is secondary to me. The reaction to the impact indicates being hit from the front.

    http://youtu.be/623JsZCgjm8
     
  18. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    That dictabelt "evidence" of 4 shots was ALSO discredited. As was the reaction of JFK's head to the kill shot (many times)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy

    As for the Carcano...it is a rifle. Most rifles have the same principles and I have shot very old and terrible Remington .308 that were damaged, and even damaged, you can adjust with a little practice to fire very accurately at 75 yards.

    This particular model had M91 rifling which makes it REMARKABLY ACCURATE. Again...the conspiracy nuts have spread so much bull****, that the FACTS get buried.
     
  19. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Oh..and the evidence shows that JFK's head moves FORWARD at Impact. Not back.

    it is his BODY that is slumping after the mortal wound that is moving back. But at the POINT OF IMPACT....HIS HEAD MOVES FORWARD:

    FORWARD AT IMPACT:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Of course..most conspiracy nuts believe that the CIA killed Kennedy because he was going to "splinter" the CIA...

    Truth is that he made those statements at a time of great frustration with the intelligence community. The TRUTH is that Kennedy relied on the CIA greatly after he made those comments, and most famously used them to fight a secret war in LAOS.

    This is a pretty good paper on the subject:
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk_cia.htm
     
  21. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    A friendly wager, if I'm in the Miami area or you're in the Savannah area we'll have a shoot off at a moving target, I'll shoot yours and you'll shoot mine with a 3 shot practice session, at just 50 yards (winner buys the beer). The we'll have a laugh as to who's bull **** to believe.

    Rules:
    1. Any rifle with scope
    2. Each shooter must sight in his own weapon before surrendering it to the other shooter.
    3. Only 3 rounds can be expended at moving target
    4. Only 10 ring hits count.

    Are you game?
     
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  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    No weapon is any more accurate than it's sites.
     
  23. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    There will be discussion 'till the end of time about this.
    And I don't think we'll ever know what happened for sure.
     
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  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    making a gif from one frame of film does not show enough to know for sure either way. The Secret Service agent who climbed into the limo over the trunk, seen in some footage, cannot recall his name, said the exit wound, based on his close examination right at that time, was on the back of the head. The exit wound being bigger than the entry wound.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Tell me sir, are you personally confident in the capability of that 6.5 Carcano with that scope in making 3 such hits when being fired in such quick succession?

    IMO, possible yes, but probable, no damned way. I wonder if even Carlos Hathcock could do it.
     
  26. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    I beg to differ ... its always the man behind the trigger that is always the deciding factor. Remember "White Feather" and his 50 cal shot. Have you ever seen a more inaccurate setup than that Browning 50 and its butterfly trigger?

    As I said earlier I know of only one guy, 20 year vet Air Force trained, who could possibly pull off that type of shooting. Oswald was not that type, no way he's an ALPHA.

    However the most glaring fact that sticks out to me is this. Oswald owned up to killing the cop, a nobody, yet claimed to his dying moment he did not kill JFK. You just pull off the sweetest shot of your life and take out the most powerful man in the world yet you claim you didn't do it. NO WAY!
     
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  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    My point was with the shooter being a constant. One cannot say the M91 was remarkably accurate simply because of it's rifling. The sighting system is going to be the bigger determining factor in the accuracy of any weapon as opposed to the rifling in the hands of the same shooter. Jeff Cooper used to say the way to improve the accuracy of a military 1911 was to add high profile fixed sites, upgrade the trigger, and install a solid bushing, rather than a collet bushing. No mention at all of changing the barrel.

    That is an excellent point.
     
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  28. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have stood at the window from which Oswald fired. Anyone can; the old Dallas School Book Depository is now a museum. The shot is not that far; 85 yards, With the car moving very slowly after just having turned the corner, and moving directly away from Oswald and not across his line of fire. He was shooting down from a Fifth floor window, which minimizes bullet drop. A good shooter can do it; it doesn't take a Marine expert rifleman or a sniper.
     
  29. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I'm game. let's do it.
     
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  30. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    that is also true.
     
  31. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    [video=youtube;WovyEqfR8Hg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovyEqfR8Hg[/video]

    The above tests show plenty...

    BTW..Jesse Ventura does the same thing ...but he fumbles around like an idiot and used a completely locked up and dry rifle in order to prove "a conspiracy". it was rather disgraceful really.
     
  32. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Yes it does .... and not one guy was shooting at a human. If you don't think that too makes a difference ... well what can I say.

    PS Great, I await your visit.
     
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  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I like the cut of your jib on this JFK thing. :up:
     
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  34. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    oh jeez. You are not serious with this.

    YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That works both ways. You want to believe that your govt is something you can trust to be honest and forthright with you all the time. That they would never stoop to something so dastardly.
     
  36. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You picked the wrong guy to accuse of "trusting" his government.

    I also believed in all the conspiracy theories till I found out that most of the conspiracy theorists where flat out lying about their evidence. Further research led me to my conclusions.

    The only conspiracy theory that holds water is that the Mob killed him through LHO. There is enough evidence to suggest that the Mob was interested in finding as many nuts as possible to make an attempt on JFK.

    But the government? Nah..JFK was as much a part of the establishment as any. He loved covert ops, and was preparing to escalate in SE Asia. JFK was a vehement anti-communist with plenty of backing by the most powerful old-heads in Washington and the military.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The premise of the thread, with LBJ being behind it, would be govt. Most govt accusations focus on CIA being involved, and there were reasons for the CIA to be down on him. Also, there were reports that he planned to pull the plug on Vietnam which didn't sit well with the military industrial complex.

    Also, when one says govt, it can refer to the Warren Commission, and whether they covered up anything.
     
  38. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    No reason for any of them to conspire to kill JFK, when he was essentially ONE OF THEM. People romanticize JFK since he is dead, but he WAS the Establishment. The only evidence we have is that JFK was the Military Industrial Complex's BIGGEST ALLY.

    JFK got us out of a recession with deficit spending, mostly on Defense.
    His Defense spending OUTPACED REAGANS! His defense spending increases, if done today, would amount to 3.5 trillion per year, which is Double the expenditure on defense today.

    So yeah..he was a darling of the M.I.C.
     
  39. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    There are two separate albeit related questions regarding the Kennedy assignation as I see it. The first one is did Lee Harvey Oswald act alone in the shooting. I recognize that many will never be convinced but I am sure LHO was the sole gunman firing from the Book Depository.

    The second question is whether or not LHO was supported or at least put up to the act by someone? To me that question is somewhat murkier. Cubans? Russians? Mafia? Someone else? I could be convinced that one of those agencies was at some level behind LHO even if only to the degree they knew it was likely and did nothing about it.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    There was a mild recession in 1960-61, but it ended within a month of JFK's inauguration. No time for any of his policies to effect it. The next recession wasn't until 1969.

    Since JFK let it be known a few months before he was killed that he was not going to escalate the situation in Vietnam, I do not agree with your opinion that there was any great amount of affection for him by the power brokers in the Pentagon.

    He had stepped on a lot of toes with his policies so it's no surprise a lot of influential people could have wanted him taken out.
     

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