Ronnie Brown an Average Back

Honestley, I think Ronnie Brown is a top 10 back. I just don't see him as a top 5 back yet.

 

I have no problem with your analysis, Ronnie Brown, the Tandem or the Stable
our running game is set, they will produce to the level our restructured & much invested offensive line allows them to play. everything starts in the trenches. the Orca-5 have to step up for us to be sucessful in 2009.

 

Link?

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/59481-top-10-nfl-runningbacks
http://www.toptentopten.com/topten/nfl+runningbacks+for+2009

1. Adrian Peterson
2. Willie Parker
3. Maurice Jones-Drew
4. Michael Turner
5. Frank Gore
6. Ladanian Tomlinson
7. DeAngelo Williams
8. Brian Westbrook
9. Brandon Jacobs
10. Steven Jackson

 

Umm....no

I asked for a link supporting your claim that "it is not the consensus of opinion within the NFL that Brown is an Elite RB" and instead you link me to two blogs from NFL fans. One of them reads...

I'm sure Chris loves his football, but he isn't an NFL front office exec and that makes your claim of there being "a consensus among NFL people" bogus. If your opinion of Ronnie Brown is that he isn't a top 10 RB, that's fine, but don't misrepresent how NFL execs feel about him by claiming that they share your opinion unless you can provide a link to back it up.

 

1 How about you show me where Ronnie is listed within the top ten in the NFL? You have much better resources than I do available to you. You do this all the time. I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong.
2)Show me where he has been considered an "Elite NFL RB". I would really like to get it right if I'm wrong.
3)Please show me where he ranks as one of the top five elite RB's of the NFL, by anyone's account within the NFL, including the Miami Dolphins Front Office & coaching staff.
4) link?
5) all I've had to go on is what I've been about to read & none of it suggests that Ronnie Brown is in the top ten & not even close to the top 5 elite backs in the NFL. Help me out. I want to get it right. I've been wrong before, all I ask is for a correction.
6) did you read the other link I posted about the top ten?

 

I would give it up, these guys are either blind or naive,if they dont realize by now that ronnie is not an elite RB till this day then let it be.We have 3 good Rbs and we should be able to scare some teams other will try to beat us by us throwing.

 

7 Running backs made the Probowl in 2009, Ronnie brown being one of them..

Peterson
Turner
Portis
T. Jones
C johnson
Lynch

Those are the others.. Ronnie was voted in by his peers even though he did'nt have a thousand yards or 300 hundred carries..IMO, that is a measure of respect for the mans talent, from other players and coaches, the "consensus", if you will...

 

Umm, WOW. You're asked to support your claims that the NFL has reached a concensus that RB is not an "Elite" back in this league, and the best response you can muster is a rating system devised by some cheeto eating fan blogging at practice sessions? Now THAT'S impressive.

But, I'll play your game. For my list in support of my argument, please go to the following link: http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id...late=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

And what is it? Oh, it's the NFL's 2009 Pro-Bowl roster! You know, that little old list the NFL puts together every year, consisting of the players voted in by fans, players and coaches as being the best at their positions. It says here that there were 7 NFL running backs voted to the Pro Bowl, and Ronnie Brown was one of them. I'm a little slow on the math, so you'll have to help me out a bit, but I think that puts him in a "Top 10 List". So I'll see your "bleacher report" and raise you an NFL Pro-Bowl roster.

Seriously, you'll have to excuse my profound naivity and blatant ignorance of who's who among NFL players. I know now that I probably should have done my research and interviewed at least, I don't know, like 2 Top 10 lists put together by amateur writers before I went off an spouted such non-sense, because everybody knows that the people truely in the "know" in the NFL aren't the players and coaches, but the underappreciated bloggers that you have somehow managed to gain unprecedented and invaluable access. Boy, don't I feel silly.

 

It's not my responsibility to prove or disprove your opinions, and you're using strawman arguments to misrepresent what I've said.

But if you want to read about high praise from an experienced NFL mind and talent evaluator....

That's pretty high praise from a well respected NFL talent evaluator, no? Not only is this coming from a great NFL mind, but this is also an evaluation from the coach of our biggest rival. He points out Ronnie's power, his receiving skills, his ability to make plays and gaining extra yards, this isn't just an empty compliment. If Ronnie makes it to FA, something I highly doubt, I fully expect the Patriots to make a run at him.

IMO the fact that Ronnie shares carries in a 2 RB system is irrelevant to whether or not he is a top 5 RB, and it would seem that you agree with that seeing that you posted a list of the top 10 RB's to prove your point, on that list Maurice Jones-Drew was ranked 3rd. If you truly believe in that list, otherwise why would you post it, then you would understand that sharing carries isn't a reflection that Ronnie can't handle 20 snaps a game, that he produces when he gets his opportunities, that's he has been the center of our offense for many years, etc. Then take into account the fact that he hasn't had a decent OL infront of him in his career.....and yet he's still garnering high praise from one of the best NFL minds in the history of the business. You said yourself, and it's one of my favorite lines, that everything starts with the OL, now consider what Ronnie has done with so little infront of him. That to me is the meaning of an elite RB, someone who can produce even when the situation isn't in his favor. Not everything is about numbers or where a player ranks on the stat sheet, it's about ability and production when the ball is in the player's hands, that's something that seems to be overlooked all too often here.

Again, you're free think what you want when it comes to Ronnie, but don't attribute those comments to those of NFL execs unless you can provide proof. We all have our opinions, I've stated mine quite clearly, but that doesn't mean that NFL people share them.

 

To be fair, there are NFL guys who have been critical of Brown. Most recently I can recall Michael Lombardi specifically.

I'm not saying he is or isn't elite, but I don't see much evidence either way.

 

What do your eyes and instincts tell you Stringer?..thats the point of this thread, and imo, one of the reasons why were on this site. What kind of accurate analysis can one bring to the table when talking about their team, and the respect that comes with that.

 

As I've said before, I put Ronnie in the same group as 7-10 RBs, right behind Adrian Peterson.

I'm not going to say he is any better than S Jackson, Frank Gore, MJD, Matt Forte, Brandon Jacobs, Brian Westbrook, LT etc.

Really once you get into that group, they all have plenty of talent. I'm not saying Brown is any better or any worse than those guys. Personally I would probably put him toward the bottom of that group, but I find it hard to argue one way or another. He is a great running back.

Really the only elite RB in the NFL in my eyes in Adrian Peterson. He is the only one that has consistently produced at a very high level the past few years. You can maybe put LT on that list also. RBs get injured at such a frequent rate these days, that its hard to label many as elite.

I don't think you can proclaim someone elite based on future projections. Otherwise you would have 15 elite RBs in the NFL.

 

I can agree with that

 

LT and Clinton Portis. Those are the only ones I'd add up there. Portis was injured one year but has been a 1200+ yard back every year. LT is well, LT. He's been putting up numbers since he came into this league.

Uhm, what?

 

and therein lyes the axis and disagreement of the debate.

I believe you CAN project someone to be elite with your skill as an evaluator, and, to consider all surrounding variables, past and present, when ascessing the players future. Its what a GM's job is all about, which is something i had mentioned in the beginning of this thread, that some were taking a fans perspective, but i was taking a GM's perspective..

Why iam absolutely addicted to this site is because of the knowledgable posters on it, when i respect someones eye, it gives me information to use with my own analysis, to properly project players, and, wins and losses.

 

Well if you can project Ronnie as an elite RB, then you can also project Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, Steve Slaton, Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, Michael Turner, Marion Barber, Darren McFadden, Knowshon Moreno, etc. etc. etc. as elite running backs.

Ronnie isn't any more talented than any of those guys mentioned above. That isn't a knock on Ronnie, but just my opinion that the NFL is littered with very talented running backs.

 

everyone is entitled to their opinion & even a minor spat now & then
however
nothing anyone has posted or written has convinced me that Brown is within the top 5 NFL running backs
this elite business is conjecture & personal opinion, not fact. it cannot be documented or sustained anywhere with any responsible objectivity. over the past four seasons Brown has been proven not to be an elite back. it is what it is. no one knows what the future holds, but any idiot can see the past.
once again, Ronnie Brown is very good but he is not an elite running back. I hope he becomes elite in 2009.
having said: I think the Tandem is one of the top five in the NFL & our Stable is excellent.
everything will hinge on our offensive line, as they go the season will follow.
it all begins in the trenches

 

no, thats not true..some players have more skills, are more diverse in what they can do then others,{of course}, especially when talking about a system that is condusive to the players skills...Thats part of this debate, what ronnie can do in this system relative to other players that you have mentioned.

I have never not said that some of the players you mentioned were not great football players, but my eyes tell me that ronnie, and his talent, and the kind of diversity he brings to the game, if given the right variables, will produce MVP type numbers, and, from what my own analysis tells me is, You sign that player now, not later.

It looks to as though the Front office feels the same, thank goodness.

 

We'll see. All we have to go off of now is what Brown's agent has to say, and to be honest it hasn't told me much. Of course this front office will want to extend Brown, the real question is what they are willing to pay, and what Brown is willing to accept. In order for Brown to stay in Miami, I think at some point he is going to have to make the decision that he will have to give up at least some money.

 

Sure, Ronnie may have a more diverse skillset than some of those guys. But I don't think he is anymore diverse than Westbrook, Steven Jackson, MJD, Peterson, Forte, McFadden, or a few others.

 

I do... Peterson aside

Iam embracing this offense, and iam confident how well the offense fits ronnies skills, were gonna find out whether or not his numbers at the end of the year will put him in the category of elite that some are describing, iam just willing to go there early based on my own analysis.

 

The comment was made in the days leading up to the game in which Ronnie was injured.

 

DJ, no disrespect bro, but you think Ronnie more diverse than Westbrook and MJD?

 

Slaton, Forte, Johnson and McFadden (with mixed results) have one year in the league and Moreno hasn't even played a down yet, I don't understand the argument here. Ronnie has a few years with which to judge him on, so projecting how he would fit into an offense isn't that much of a stretch, where with a rookie (Moreno) we have nothing to go on and the others that I mentioned have a limited sample from which to form an opinion. Projecting stats is never a wise thing to do, but projecting how a player will perform within a system is a part of te FA, draft scouting process.

 

agreed!
Ronnie Brown is an Elite Tandem Back & fits our system perfectly.
Running behind the Orca-5, the Tandem from Hell will burn NFL turf in 2009.

Ultimately, that's what is important to every DolFan in Dofandom

this is what we are reduced to in the month of July, banter & more banter
can't wait for training camp to begin

 

I cant believe this thread lasted this long,People are going to be jumping of buildings if we dont sign ronnie.



Cant wait till preseason starts



(Other News ) looks like Vick will get reinstated this season but miss the first 4 games..... as long as he finds a team.... BP maybe

 

Another piece of evidence to offer up to the boys. My next door neighbor, born and bred in Boston, is a a die-hard Patriots fan. So while he's out working on his yard, I decide to test his thoughts on the subject. So ask him, straight up, "who's the one player from the Dolphins that you'd wish to be traded away so you wouldn't have to see the Pats play them twice a year?"

His answer: "Ronnie Brown...without a doubt....why?"

I mention that us Phin fans were having a debate whether or not he was "average", "good" or "elite" due to a recent column writer pegging him as "average". After his eyes returned back to normal size, he says, and I quote: "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude....I'd give anything to have RB on my team....he's a stud, pure and simple...hands down the best RB in the AFC East".

I know, we should all accept the opinion of any Pats fan with a grain of salt, but for what it's worth, this is how other fans see our Ronnie Brown.

 

No question about it,westbrook is a player, Highly intelligent, excellent hands, deceptive speed, all packaged in a untraditional modern running back style. . He has a coach that understands his skillset, and maximizes every inch of it. The west coast system he's played in, and the qb that he's played with, his whole carreer, make a difference. The man is put in position and is fed the ball with purpose and excellent scheming, his talent takes over after that, which equals elite numbers. Excellent variables surrounding the player.

Do i think from an overall talent standpoint, that westbrook is better then Ronnie brown, no i do not. The power speed combination is off the charts with this player, combined with great balance and soft hands, it all just aches for the right system, which i now feel is in place, plus a little extra bonus {the ability to handle and run from a complex formation}. I'll leave it as simple as that with you brother, you know my track record when it comes to player evaluation, just like i know yours. This is just one player that i have a conviction about.

So just for you and the record, i will reiterate and summize all that i have said..Imo, ronnie brown, is a supremely gifted football player that moving forward, with a healthy body, in this system, projects to become elite in terms of his production, and if i'am the GM of this team, i resign the player now, because i dont wanna pay more later.

 

your suggesting that Parcells may have interest in vick? you should start a new thread with that one.

 

I agree that he and his agent should'nt ask to be paid an astronomical contract, top 5 would be about right considering the past injuries.

 

Average back eh???? NOT!!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlPhDLNnYU&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - The Best Of Ronnie Brown[/ame]

 

While the list tends to look feasible, these are two fan based sites, not media or scout based sites. They hold very little water other than some other fans opinions...(IMO). The argument is not that Brown is or is not a top 10 back, but your statement that he was not is not based on a football guys' opinion, but on fans opinions...

I have the same opinions about many sites that folks like to base their opinions on...let me know what the scouts say, the coaches and the players think, not what other fans that may or may not know more than you or I do...

At any rate, I'm not totally disagreeing with you on Brown. He's somewhere in the top 10, imo, but that can be taken for what it's worth...

 

everybody has an opinion & they are nothing more than opinions
the Front Office will resolve this situation in the appropriate way, at the proper time.

Only Bill Parcells knows the real value of Ronnie Brown to the Organization

the end of this thread for me guys

 

When i clicked the video a puff of dust came out , how old is that ?



Nice ride by the way...almost bought one myself but the 2 seats just didnt do it.

 

LOL!!! Thanks!!!

 

I think this is where Westbrook doesn't get his credit. I still think he's a incredibly talented halfback because of the many things he can do. He can split out wide, in the slot, he can pass block, he can run between the tackles, he can run away from defenders, he can return punts as well as kickoffs. I think you can put Westbrook in any system and he'll have success. I'm not saying Ronnie Brown can't but I don't think he's more talented than Westbrook. Maybe equally talented but more? I don't see it.

 

I'll go with equal on a lot of levels. Its close, they both pretty much have the same skillset, but ronnie has that strength and power when running, that ability to turn the corner and literally explode into and over the defender element that I want that on my team.

Alen, last nite i watched ronnie's highlights from the San diego game last year, if i knew how to attach the link i would, i must of watched it 3 times..The chargers did not want anything to do with that man..now i know he has'nt put up stats in the top 20, but there are not many dudes that can take over an nfl game like that..Just watch him in the wildcat and how ungimmick like it was in that game, pure power football, and he was as calm and comfortable as ive seen a player executing something like that, Hes a total natural taking the snap and when he does, he's in perfect position to display his array of skills. It was'nt flashy in that game, it was just hardcore, and was a good example of what this regime sees in the scheme and why there so committed to it.

Running the wildcat has a lot to do with where iam coming from...I'll tell ya this, the two weaknesses that ronnie has in his game from a traditional formation standpoint is, He's almost to patient and sometimes lacks vision right?, BUT, when he's takin the snap from the wildcat, something happens with this man, That patience becomes a crucial element in the decision making, and his vision becomes multidimensional..It really is quite remarkable, ive been studying him...no way, no how, he stops running the wildcat, The ratio from 10 percent will probably go up so Pat can get his reps, because ronnie aint goin nowhere in that package.

Those highlights were from nfl.com, showed a nice succession of plays from beginning to end, with Gus johnston commentating {my favorite}.

There was a quote from Gus about our team that got me so pumped..He said The miami Dolphins are showing the spirit and emotion of a college football team...and if your familiar with gus Johnston, you get goosebumbs. damn i wish i could post that link

 

Ronnie can explode through defenders while Westbrook can run away from them. I'll take the latter every time, bro.

You're right, he was impressive in that game. As was Pennington IIRC.

* I'll PM you in a second.

 

In that charger game, I loved how on the first time we tried to run the wildcat it went for like 3 yards with Matt wilheilm making the play, getting up, and kicking the dirt ala Joey Porter...needless to say, it pissed ronnie off and it was all downhill after that, he took that teams will away from them, and pounded them with physicality.