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Roquan Smith

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Redwine4all, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Well here’s a thing for Roquan Smith and top 10

    Never seen a 6 foot 1 235 lb lb go top 10.

    That usually best case goes top 25.

    The best weakside prospect I’ve seen Lavonte David went in what round 2 I think. Of course he weighed in the 220s and was 5 foot 11 I believe so smith gets a bump for being better sized and possessing better speed. David had better box instincts.

    Deion Jones went in round 2 was more raw if the comp is jones as in a 34 wilb well maybe but Deion Jones doesn’t fit every scheme. He’s allowed to run and chase and pursue the ball a lot.

    I guess I’m saying I will be surprised if Roquan Smith doesn’t reach us.

    More surprised than if baker mayfield doesn’t given the premium position he plays and the rookie contract value the current cba for the qb position is peanuts
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wanted to draft Deion Jones in the 2nd the year he came out, thought folks were sleeping on him a bit because of his size, I didn’t see his size/strength effect negatively at impact so I was in..

    Knowing what you know now, is that a first round pick?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
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  3. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    With Jones being Smith's comp this is also an important note you addressed . . .

    . . . that is getting overlooked in a lot of Dolphin draft circles.
     
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  4. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you are asking me exactly. if it's is deion jones worth a 1st round pick I'd say yes he's validated a top 25 pick as a pro to date. but it's also scheme specific. in Miami he'd be a wlb

    so would roquan
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You answered..
     
  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting the feeling now that it's either vea or a lb for pick 11

    darkhorse lb for the pick Leighton vander esch
     
  7. Duss

    Duss Season Ticket Holder

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    Well Patrick Willis wasnt top 10 but he wasnt round 2 either
     
  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Yeah thats my feel too
     
  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Only LB I want at 11 is edmunds. If he is not there we are better off trading down.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Edmunds is a mistake at 11..you sure your ready to have the patience with him? and take the risk that he may not have good instincts.
     
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  11. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Certainly happy with an impact coverage backer.....however I do not want a DT at 11.
     
  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You are way overblowing his lack of instincts. His instincts are not that bad, and everything else about him is off the charts better than any other LB in this draft and in previous drafts going back years. He is definitely worth the 11th pick. The only thing I am worried about is him not making it to 11.

    And regarding his instincts/read skills those will get better with time. Right now he is ready to be a pro bowl type linebacker even with his inconsistent read skills. Once he gets that down he will be an all pro HOF type linebacker. Thats how high his cieling is. I dont know how anybody could question us picking him at 11.
     
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  13. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree. IMHO, the gamble isn't great or bust...it's All Pro vs solid starter. He'll be 20 when the season starts...
     
  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    At 20 with his frame and athletic ability, I am running the card up there if hes sitting there at 11. Of course you have to have patience with him. He is going to make an impact day 1 regardless and if he learns the game and starts anticipating the play better you are talking about something special. Those are the types of players you take chances on. His floor isnt super low. His ceiling is incredibly high.
     
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  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Responded before I saw these responses. Spot on to me. I dont think there is a chance he makes it to 11 personally.
     
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  16. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At the end of the day, you can’t go wrong with either Edmunds or Smith. Neither are the sure bet that some here are making them out to be.

    However, if either become a Dolphin I'd be elated.

    Saying that, Edmunds mental game does make me pause, but Smith's size does also. I'd think that Edmunds, being only 19, could pick up the NFL game, but if he doesn't?

    Well, I'd take a smart, athletic freak who is undersized with great instincts over a less smart, athletic freak with bad instincts. If I had to choose one over the other I'd probably just flip a coin.
     
  17. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    There is no indication that Edmunds is not smart, just that he on occasion misreads plays and bites on misdirection. That is mostly due to him being very young and lacking experience, not that he is'nt smart. And despite his occasional misreads he still put up great production.

    Read skills can be improved with more coaching and experience, however smith's size/stength limitations and inability to get off blocks will not improve with time. You can play edmunds at any LB position and expect him to perform well, smith on the other hand needs to be put at weakside in the NFL if you want him to perform well. Either that or at Mike with two massive DTs up front protecting him from blockers and covering up his mediocre poa and stack/shed ability.
     
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  18. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You either don't comprehend things very well or you don't read posts in their entirety.


    I implied that Edmunds is less smart than Smith. That doesn't infer that he's "not smart". By all accounts Smith has been the QB of his defense. Nowhere have I heard that about Edmunds. I also talked about Edmunds and how I think he will be able to pick up the NFL game because he's only 19, so I'm not sure why you're trying to make it look as if I didn't.

    You're denigrating Smith in order to build up "your guy". This act of yours is boring. You do it with Harris and anyone else who isn't 'your guy".

    Rueben Foster is 6’0”, 229 lbs and has already shown he's great at his position (If you take away his legal troubles) And weren't you one of the people pushing for him last year? Foster also struggled with block shedding coming out of Alabama, but it hasn’t mattered because he is quick enough to avoid blocks altogether. Smith plays with a similar style. Yes, he could shed blocks better, but it's not nearly as big a weakness as you suggest. Besides, Smith put on weight and is only about 15 pounds lighter than Edmunds (but 3-4 inches shorter) and still ran faster than Edmunds at the combine.

    You say that Edmunds can be put anywhere and perform well? Maybe...maybe not. You think Kiko overran a lot of plays last year and picked the wrong gap too many times? Well, Edmunds would make Kiko's play in that regard look like an All-Pro, IMO. Edmunds is slow to react due to not being able to diagnose plays quickly. And will be that way if and until he learns the game a little better. Sure, he can overcome some of that with his freak athleticism, and his ceiling is sky high, but if he fails to develop his mental game he will be a top 10-15 bust. And if Smith doesn't fix some of his deficiencies the same can be said about him.

    Bottom line, both are great players and they each have their pros and cons. (Well, to objective people they each have cons) And tearing down one in order to build up the other is just dishonest.

    One may have a better career than the other. One or both may bust and one or both may end up in the HoF. But proclaiming that for either at this stage is also disingenuous.
     
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  19. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    instincts aren't gonna matter as much at strong but they will matter at mike

    roquans box instincts aren't great either...he does more turning and running to the football than flowing laterally to it...the best place for that kind of game in our scheme would be weak

    pretty sure raekwon going in plan a mike anyways in base at least
     
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  20. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I did not at all want Foster last year, I knew he had mental issues and concussions that made him a risky pick. I have not said smith sucks and is a terrible pick, all I am saying is smith is not as good as Edmunds and is not a scheme fit. Smith needs to be put at weak in order to maximize his talents, we dont need a weak right now we need a SAM which edmunds can play perfectly in our scheme. Smith at sam in our wide 9 defense is a terrible fit which is why I think we should pass on a LB at 11 if edmunds is not there.
     
  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be Oakland and vita vea momentum building at 10

    Edmunds is the only lb I’m interested in at 11 also. I’m trading out to take any other one

    And if Miami does take Roquan that will tell me miami has already decided to move on from Kiko after 2018. And I don’t think they are there yet

    Developmental lb with upside weak we can get at 73 is Darius Leonard. Like the value. Can play in the nickel package wise in 2018 allow Miami if they want to to dump kikos money and have a in house starter capable option waiting in Leonard come 2019
     
  22. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

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    Whilst the trade down option is potentially appealing, it's one of those where we don't hold a high enough spot that it's attractive to the teams looking to trade up and therefore we're probably waiting for a draft day deal where we're going to get phone calls because player A is still on the board and somebody desperately wants him. My question I guess is how do you plan for that? You can't go into the day with the plan to trade down because if nobody gives you an offer then you're up a creak without a paddle but also you don't want to take a punt on a player with the hopes he hits his ceiling. So do you go in with your plan to draft the player you want but at the same time also have your deal point? As in, if we get to #11 and Roquan Smith (For this example) is available then we take him, but if we get an offer of say a team's 1st round pick and a 2nd then we'll deal out?
     
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  23. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I'll swap firsts and take an extra second for roquan in a heartbeat.

    You are right we are not in the best position to attract trade offers. I think the plan should be to set your deal point and if your player is not there at 11 (edmunds) then you put out a few feelers and weigh the offers.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    agreed on your Edmunds eval
     
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  25. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Listening to Tannenbaum on the Audible he said they have multiple scenarios all mapped out. I think they know who they like. I just hope they get it right. I lean toward the concept of targeting players in the draft. Last year, they zeroed in on Carroo and it costs us some capital. Not saying he won't work out, but he is having a hard time cracking our lineup.
     
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  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Admittedly knowing little about Smith and Edmunds...and just interjecting "common sense" into the equation, a 19 year old kid hasn't had enough life experiences overall to be an effective asset to any NFL team. Take a kid like that, make him an instant millionaire, young and impressionable enough to believe bad advice given to him...I just see an instant bust a la JaMarcus Russell in the making.

    That's just my opinion but of course...I could be wrong.
     
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  27. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Someone ALWAYS drops. Could be Nelson, could be Chubb, could be Edmunds, could be one of the QBs. I can predict with a high degree of probability that if you took ten mocks today, one of the players unanimously taken in the top 7 is going to be there when we pick. I don't know if we'll take him (like Tunsil), but one will be there. What if Mayfield is there and we really aren't as intrigued as we seem, and AZ loves him. If Payne and Vea and Roquan are all on the board, why not drop back 4 spaces, pocket a third and a fourth?
     
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  28. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    You can say it. I do wish some reporter/insider would find out what happened with Carroo in the draft room and who lost that bet. I read a rumor that it was the WR coach that lobbied hard for him and got canned for it.
     
  29. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Just listened to Boomer today on the podcast he posted the other day that Carroo seems to be working his butt off. If he doesn’t work out it won’t be due to a lack of commitment and effort. I respect that he understands his situation and is working hard to rectify it. It’s more than I can say about Parker, at the moment, who seems to be taking his situation for granted.
     
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  30. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, definitely wrong. That's a horrible POV.
     
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  31. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind Edmunds comes from a football family, his dad played for the Fins and was a pretty good TE, so he knows the business and football aspect of the NFL. I doubt he is going to give his son bad life advice.
     
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  32. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Time will tell.
     
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  33. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    No wrong. Do some research, he is not some projects kid with a single mom and a rough upbringing. He is former Dolphins Ferrel Edmunds son and has been brought up right. He has no character or off field issues everything I have read about hi is that he is high character with a good upbringing and mature for his age. His dad being a former NFL player should help him be mentally ready for NFL life.

    By your logic we shouldn't have drafted mcmillan last year since he was only months older than edmunds when he was drafted. Yet we know mcmillan is a high character kid with an adcanced maturity level for his age. Never make genralized statements like that. Not everybody is the same.
     
  34. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I’m continuing to smell minkah coming to us at 11

    Being on the board
     
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  35. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    When you look at their roster, the most obvious needs are at LB and TE. Everyone seems to assume that McMillian is going to be an upgrade at the LB position. Yet he is coming off a major knee injury and he has NEVER played a defensive snap in a regular season game in the NFL. So he remains a major question mark going into the season, IMO.

    As far as the rest of the LB’s on the roster are concerned, they are mediocre at best and that includes Alonso. While I would love to see the Dolphins start preparing for the future by doing whatever it takes to move up and draft one of the top 4 QB’s in the draft. Since all these QB’s
    will likely be off the board by the time they select in the first round, a LB appears to be their biggest area of need.

    TE is also a major need but I don’t see any TE in the draft which is worthy of a first round pick. Hopefully they will be able to upgrade this position in the 2nd or 3rd round.
     
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  36. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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  37. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Such is obviously - as I'm sure you know - is a totally different player to Vea. They do things differently. Vea would help linebackers better than Suh by the nature of how they play. You're also bringing McMillan back into the fold. I think if Tremaine Edmunds is there then he'll be the pick but I don't think he will be. He's the linebacker that fits the bill more than any.
     
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  38. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I did watch some YouTube draft videos. Roquan needs to be protected or he will get pushed around when teams run right at him. Given his size, I don't see that ever really changing. Edmunds is really young, but he can get better and has enough physical tools to learn to deal with blockers.

    I'd be fine with Edmunds at #11, but I doubt he drops that far. If Miami could find a way to trade back to the late teens/early twenties I'd be okay with them grabbing Vander Esch.

    We come out with a starting LB and TE? I call that a successful draft. If we can get some DT depth in the third round and Falk with the fourth rounder? Even better.
     
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  39. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    How would you all feel if we managed to add both Fitzpatrick and Jewell? I have been thinking of pairings I would like to have and this is one of them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I think both can be real solid pros. I don't at all think Edmunds has bad instincts.
    They're actually pretty good. I've seen him many times watch how the play develops, doesn't bite on the misdirection and then makes the play.

    Just imagine, at 19 years of age, with good coaching, how much he can improve. His potential is off the charts and if McMillan turns out to be the solid player I thought he could be, that would be a nutty good LB group.

    All those times the D would break down and get gashed? S--t. He could make a lot of those runners and short slot guys pay dearly.

    Smith probably does require more of scheme fit.

    I would be happy with either choice. Both are good players, but if had the choice it would be Edmunds all day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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