No. Hes not as good a coach as his father was. Do. Not. Want. Hell I'd hire Marty Schottenheimer before Brian.

As for Peterson: where there's smoke there's generally fire as unfortunate as that may be in this case.

 

It looks to me like the Jets got better when Moore arrived as a "consultant".

[Edit] Now that I think about it, the exact opposite happened to the Colts. Apparently, Manning wasn't the OC.

 

I wonder if one of the sticking points about Peterson taking on this role is what issues he can overrule Ireland on, like for example quarterback. Carl Peterson is likely to want a veteran quarterback since that is what he went for constantly in Kansas City, but Steve Ross and Jeff Ireland are probably both thinking they want a hot shot rookie. Also they have to figure out Peterson's role in hiring the new Head Coach, though I don't imagine that being a conflict because I'm pretty sure that's half the reason Ross wants Peterson to take over. Peterson will, of course, go for a Head Coach with experience...which I think suits Ross just fine. But Steve may want to make sure that Carl's guy with experience isn't going to be someone like Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Mike Nolan, Eric Mangini or Herm Edwards.

 

Another thing to think about this hire is the fact that we may fire Ireland after/right before the draft. This would give us all of his scouting notes and work, but at the same time with Peterson having final say he could override anything Ireland wanted to do... So basically Ireland would still be doing all of his usual work, but he wouldn't be in charge ultimately. I really think what might happen is Carl Peterson, Jeff Ireland, and our new coach "work together" to build a draft strategy, draft board, get notes on every player, etc. and then we either fire Ireland right before the draft or right after.

This could also give Ross the power to trade up and get a top QB. He could tell someone like Peterson to make it happen who would then be able to override Ireland. This certainly will make for an interesting draft process.

 

Jets fans are sick and tired of Schotty and want him gone.

Why would we want their garbage?

 

As unsexy as he is, we could do much worse than Mangina. His tenure with the Jets was notable in that he had a solid QB, but Pennington couldn't stay healthy, and his last year saw him saddled with Brett Favre. Had he taken an unheralded sixth round QB that same year, the Jets may have been the team of the 2000's.

The Cleveland situation was just terrible. I don't know how much to put on him, but those Cleveland teams were untalented. They were just bereft of good players. That's a job he should not have taken. It hurt his stock tremendously.

 

Outside of Manning, there is no veteran QB that can move the needle here, either in fan interest or actually improving the team.

I think Ross wants Luck/Barkley/Griffin and I think whoever is in charge will have that as their marching orders. I actually think we're about to go into full tank mode. Moore claims he is healthy but we are splitting 1st team reps between Losman and Devlin. We are trying Jerry at LT.

I think we start shutting some guys like Long down.

 

A part of me wants Schotty, just to pray he succeeds big time so we can point and laugh at Jets fans. That's probably a pretty optimistic thought however.

I do wonder how much Rex's influence/Sanchez being downright horrible has had to do with his success in New York though.

 

Well, up in Club I'm doing the HC Matrix of which teams would figure to be the most attractive to the "name" HC's, we are #4 on the list at best behind

-SD
-Indy
-Tampa

Meaning we are just 1 or 2 spots away from the bargain bin/devalued HC's/Coordinators who never have been Head Coaches

I personally like the job Peterson did in KC as I recall a really good, deep, team being fielded yr after yr but would not want lil Schottie because his resume enhancement, hiding Mark Sanchez's issues, is not that big a deal to me as the team was oriented to the Defense.

 

Don't see Tampa as a threat at all.

They are working on a shoe string budget and if Raheem gets fired, they are still paying him and Gruden for another year. They are going cheap and cheaper.

 

Ross is in trouble and is defaulting to what and who he knows in this situation, King Karl is a known commodity who has had success with Ross in the football business. Problem is Ross would also probably have to unwind Peterson's interests in Fan Vision inc and that is complicated to accomplish.

As for a Vet Qb, I'd think Ross would simply delegate the decision to Ross/Ireland after telling them exactly what he wants to see happen.

 

Gruden to Indy makes a ton of sense.

 

I don't think Gruden would want to effectively follow Dungy again though.

Its also quite clear that the Polians have not restocked the talent on that team. They should have won even a bit without Manning. Hell, the Dolphins always have to play and always win a few games without their starting QB. Indy's good players are aging and Luck won't necessarily be the saviour that they are looking for. He certainly won't be Peyton in his first few years.

 

Why is Indy more attractive than Miami? Because they will get Andrew Luck?

I love Luck and wish we had a shot, but if we come out with either Barkley or RG3 we won't be far behind in the QB department. We already have a better overall team in place by a wide margin.

And as was said, Tampa is not going to go glory seeking. They are a cheap franchise already paying for 2 coaches.

San Diego will likely be the only team leaps and bounds more attractive unless Coughlin gets canned in NY. In which case, he would be a strong candidate here.

 

Is that more due to situation of philosophy though? Carl was Kansas City's GM during the '90s when they were winning and always picking late in the first round. He never had a shot at any of the top quarterbacks, but there also weren't many good quarterbacks that came out of the drafts from the 1990s. Carl didn't have a shot at Drew Bledsoe or Peyton Manning.

 

Dual play in Indy, you either get Manning, or you get Luck, Qb being the #1 priority it does not come much better then that for a newly arrived HC

SD is shake and bake, they have the core, and the pieces to be good, Turner just is not a good HC, he gave his staff raises this season so Spanos may stick with him, but I consider it somewhat unlikely that he sticks.

 

I don't think we are I'm full tank mode at all. Todd Bowles is coaching for a future head coaching gig, whether with the Dolphins or another team. The writers have all been tweeting they expect Matt Moore to start. The only players that look to be out this week are Long and Misi. Jake won't be IR'd, unless it's a very serious injury. That's just his nature, tough, dumb, whatever, that's who he is.

John Jerry played LT in college at Ole Miss, so him getting a shot there isn't eart shattering--especially after Nate Garner's performance.

While they lost Tony and lost last week, they still have a little momentum. I don't think they are tanking at all.

 

Keep in mind as well, Schottie Sr was the HC, they ran the ball with power for the 90's, that fit what he wanted to do and made Qb not as important.

When Vermeil arrived, he did care who was the Qb, but still picked in poor Qb drafts, so they made due with Grbac and Green.

Peterson's real mistake in KC was hiring Herm Edwards, it blotted out some the smart stuff he did like acquiring Priest Holmes.

 

I'm not down on this Carl Peterson hire at all. I'd like Ireland to continue handling the drafts, but Carl has a lot of knowledge and know how to build a winning franchise. I think it's a smart move by Ross.

 

That's the problem though, isn't it? "Outside of Manning." Peyton Manning is very likely to be available as a free agent. That's like saying outside of the turnovers and sacks we played a pretty good game against the Eagles.

And what if Yates continues on his rampage, and Matt Schaub comes available in trade this off season? Would that not look to you a lot like when Carl Peterson traded a 1st round pick for a 30 year old Trent Green from St. Louis?

 

And it worked out well for the Chiefs, but Green was a perfect fit for the offense being a fmr Vermiel Qb in St Louis.

What is sticking in my head is Sam Bradford in St Louis, I'd bet they would move him.

As for Manning, I do believe the whole "oh, he is due 28 million" stuff is being over emphasized, it is not unheard of for a Vet to restructure to stay with a team and at 28 million, who would claim him if he were waived?

 

Not according to Clayton and Mortensen amongst others. On that NFL Insiders show last night both reported that right now the Colts plan is to keep Manning and draft Luck. So, until something actually changes, Manning is not available. And who knows if you'd even want him. He has had a serious surgery multiple times over the past year

And same thing with Schaub. Yates is playing well, but he isn;t exactly lighting it up. Now, if he pulls a Brady and wins the SB, that's one thing. But I haven't seena nything from him yet that would elad me to believe the Texans would just dump Schaub.

I wouldn't trade the 5th pr 6th pick in the draft for Schaub coming off an injury though.

 

I don't see the Colts taking Luck as a done deal. I could very easily envision a scenario where Manning shows enough of a recovery for the Colts to feel secure with him for the next few years and that they like one of the other QBs almost as much as Luck. In that scenario, I could see them concluding that their best option is to keep Manning, add several other players/picks and land a young QB they like almost as much as Luck. They might see that as a way to win now and also secure their future.

 

It seems to me like Carl took two guys in the 2nd round pretty early in his stint as the GM in Kansas City, and from that point on got a distaste for the idea of drafting quarterbacks. He drafted Mike Elkins at the top of the 2nd round of the 1989 Draft, his first as Kansas City's General Manager. He drafted Matt Blundin in the middle of the 2nd round in the 1992 Draft, his fourth draft as General Manager. From that point on he used only two 4th round picks and two 7th round picks on quarterbacks, over the next 13 drafts, including an incredible 7 year stretch where he didn't use a SINGLE draft pick on a quarterback. Think about that. You go 7 years and you never use so much as a 7th rounder on a quarterback. He only finally broke that trend by using a 7th rounder that was damn close to the Mr. Irrelevant pick on James Kilian of Tulsa in 2005...and I remember when he took Brodie Croyle in the 3rd round in 2006...that was a big deal. A 3rd round pick was a big deal.

It's just a total lack of participation. In 1991 he was picking #21 overall, he could have taken Brett Favre. He took a tailback instead. He could have traded for any one of those quarterbacks in 1999, but he took a right tackle instead. He was within striking distance to trade up for Chad Pennington in 2000. He took SlyMo. I believe 2001 is when he traded his 1st round pick away for Trent Green. From then until 2005 he never hedged his bets at the QB position with any mid round pick other than that mid-7th rounder he used on Kilian in 2005. Plenty of decent quarterbacks went in those drafts in the mid rounds, between Sage Rosenfels, David Garrard, Chris Simms, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, Derek Anderson and Matt Cassel.

Basically his history speaks of a total lack of faith in drafting quarterbacks...and I think there's good reason for that. He showed that he has absolutely no effing clue what he's looking at with college quarterbacks. Not even close to a clue. He should have been able to hit on someone, somewhere...even a backup level guy. But Mike Elkins, Matt Blundin, Steve Matthews, Steve Stenstrom, Pat Barnes, James Kilian and Brodie Croyle? Talk about a comedy of errors.

 

Yeah. I'll believe that when I see it. If they pay Manning that $28 million that's when I start hitting them hard on trading for the #1 pick.

I have, and others have as well. The NFL Network held a QB re-draft and picked T.J. Yates as the #2 QB behind Cam Newton.

 

I agree with you that we are unlikely to see Manning or Schaub in FA.

Yates would need to perform over a longer period of time than is available before it would be advisable to jettison Schaub.

 

Well, considering that if you are correct, a new HC has the best trading chip in the history of the NFL.

3 #1' and 2 #2's?

Vets?

Name your price more or less, there are reasons why I could see Gruden going to Indy.

Mort also consistently pumps te man in my Avvy:

Marc Trestman

 

All I'm saying is what the major NFL reporters have said. Yeah, it's alot of money to pay but the cap hit is not $28 million. If Irsay wants to pay it, he will pay it.

As to Yates, he may end up being great, and I know that you were and are very high on him, but it's been two games. Let's see what happens over the rest of the season and then in the playoffs. Short of a Tom Brady style SB run (and even he started 13 games in the regular season) I just cannot see them trading Schaub.

Maybe after next year, but not right now.

 

I don't think they have to go on a Super Bowl run to trade Schaub. The man has spent 5 years in Houston and been significantly injured in 3 of those years. This is the 2nd time they've tried to put together a playoff run and his being injury prone has jeopardized it. If you can trade him for a 1st round pick like the Rams once did with Trent Green, then I think you do that whether you think Yates is franchise caliber or even just solid depth that can start half a season and keep a playoff run going.

And no I don't see the Colts giving Peyton Manning $28 million and then turning around and giving Andrew Luck $28 million a few months later.

 

So at the end of the day, would you trade a top 10 pick for Schaub?

 

If I thought I could get a prospect that could be an elite quarterback, no. Matt Schaub is not an elite quarterback. He is good, but he's not elite, IMO.

 

In a heart beat.

Do not undervalue what a proven upper echelon Vet can do for a franchise, do not over estimate the value of a draft choice

I'd try to make up the lost value in terms of cheap, young, talent by flipping over the rocks Ireland speaks about.

 

I think that's over paying and I would still do it. I think Luck brings an excitement to the franchise that none of the others would. However, few season tickets we had sold after what I expect will be an underwhelming HC hire (at least in the minds of fans), will be a distant memory if we draft Luck. And I think that the Colts would be likely to take it. They'd be idiots to not at least consider it regardless of what there reported plans are now.

 

I agree CK the Colts are doing what they have to do to be able to hold any trade value. If teams know you are drafting Luck, they know you arent paying him 28 mil so they will try to hold out and make Indi sweat and either cut him or reduce trade demands. You dont come out in Dec and say we are going to part ways with peyton manning, it doesnt serve them any purpose to announce their plans even if it is obvious. If they pay Peyton, they dont draft luck IMO

 

That's where I am. I see Schaub as an oft injured QB who hasn't been able to carry a team on his own.

 

That would be a bad football decision Rafi, dropping Luck onto a team with other needs besides Qb is setting the franchise up to be in a very dark place for a very long time.

We have the 31st ranked offensive line, we have had 2 Qb's miss time every yr since 09, Luck would be Carr'd, and the bump in ticket sales would dissipate quickly in the face of that happening.

Recall fans were all ecstatic when we traded for Brandon Marshall?

Notice how quickly that changed?

 

In this scenario I would rather hope pennington is healthy than give up a top ten for Schaub. When has Shcaub not been injured? When hasnt he missed time? top ten is valuable but that bvalue has to be on teh field to be worth it.

 

i think i would trade for him