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Rough start

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sidsstillhere, Sep 13, 2009.

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  1. Sidsstillhere

    Sidsstillhere Guest

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    Just finished up my post game show with Danny Kanell on WQAM.

    We know why the Dolphins lost today:

    The TURNOVERS were a killer. You just don't win in the NFL when you're at minus 4 on the day. The good news is I don't think Fasano will fumble twice again!

    Jake Long got abused today. Dolphins still made a mistake two years ago. Should have taken Ryan. He always struggles with the speedy rushers and next week he's got Freeney.

    Wide Receivers have to get separation and make some plays. I took a bunch of calls from MORONIC Dolfans who want to bench Pennington. Beyond stupid. Chad doesn't have the strongest arm and he didn't play well today but he needs some help. Ginn, Bess, Camarillo and Hartline don't scare anybody. Plus Ronnie wasn't great today.

    Defense was pretty good. Merling was solid, J.T. had a sack and the young corners were okay too. Porter was MIA.

    Need to play a LOT better or we're facing 0-3.

    Call me on WQAM between 10 and 2 tomorrow at 567-0560. Good night!
     
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  2. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm not sure we made a mistake on Long, although he looked absolutely horrible today. Our real mistake was passing on Drew Brees.....TWICE!!!!!!

    Penny won't get help from the WRs if he cant get 3 seconds to drop back and take a look downfield. Henne might have not done any better today, but I'm not sure he could have done worse. (that doesnt mean Im ready to bench CP)
     
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  3. Ricky Williams

    Ricky Williams New Member

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    I will never expect Ronnie to look good or have too many big days with what we are doing on offense. It takes most running backs consistant touches to get something going. Ronnie has proven capable when giving the carries. 10? Scracth the wild cat and give it to Ronnie on those plays. I think we have something in Ronnie Brown, but he's not being used like he should. Cam had a weaker offense to work with and made it happen, mainly because of Ronnie. I do not like watching our offense and although its week 1, Penny didn't look promising.

    The one thing this team has, a strong run D.
     
  4. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    While I agree that our O line play sucked today and that we do not have an NFL caliber number one WR, I'm not letting Chad off that easy. There were open receivers and he didn't even miss them as much as he didn't even LOOK for them. He was rattled and with this O line, if a pass rush rattles him, he's going to be rattled all damn season long.
     
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  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Long sure did get it handed to him today, and so did Smiley!! The supposed strength of the line, also the Qb's blind side, better wake up quick.

    Pennington made a couple of mistakes that cost but this game is not on him. He is one of the main reasons why this team did a complete 360 last year. They better hope the line gets it together but in the mean time, they better start working on chipping help on the ends and why the heck they did not roll him out a couple of times is beyond me. And for christs sake, throw more screens when the other team blitzes........

    Pennington earned the right to be the starter here and until they either find someone better or groom one better we live and die with him.
     
  6. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I don't know that I agree with the Long getting "abused today" comment. He had a 2-3 plays (that I saw) in which Abrahams handed him his lunch, no doubt. And, it certainly was not his best game. But, let's not take anything away from Abrahams...dude is a beast.

    I also don't agree that it was a mistake to draft Long over Ryan. It's way too soon to jump to that conclusion. Fact is, our O-line, and our offense as a whole didn't play well today. Period. Whether it was all execution, or if scheme played into it or not, well that's up to debate.

    Bottom line...it was a BIG wake up call today. It's now time for the coaches and players to fall back and regroup. It will certainly be interesting to see how this teams plays next week at home and on national TV.
     
  7. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Jake may turn out to be great. He was pretty darn good last year. Hey, when it's the #1 pick, you can't miss because the consequences can be catastrophic. QB's are the toughest guys to judge and forecast. So they understandably went safe. But yeah, in the end Matt Ryan was the pick. He's a franchise QB.

    Anyway, it was a cluster**** out there today (offensively). The receivers couldn't get open, and Chad had trouble finding some of the ones that did. But the OL got ravaged in pass pro. And that will affect any QB in the league. And we were a turnover machine. The defense recovered after the first quarter, which was nice.

    Basically we got outclassed today. We can be better. I expect us to be better. But there ain't many Troy's or San Diego State's on our schedule.
     
  8. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    No way I think we should have taken Ryan before Long.

    If you don't have a line to stand behind you're going to get killed.
     
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  9. Finsanity

    Finsanity New Member

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    Ginn was getting separation and splitting the zone. Chad just cant throw past 15 yd without any velocity. We have to use trick plays for long plays. Defenses are just defending the short routes. The TO didnt help while we had momentum.
     
  10. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Abraham is a beast. But he wasn't the only guy to beat Long. 2-3 plays per game like that, from that position, and you're spending a #1 on his replacement. ;)

    He's got Freeney next week, then Merriman, Phillips and English next week. He struggled in preseason too. He's got to get it together fast. That entire OL does.

    I won't repeat my last post, but you always take the franchise QB over the franchise LT, or any other position, 10/10 times. Matt Ryan is a franchise QB. There are no questions about his game. Joe Flacco looks like one too. They're both helping their teams right now, as top end QB's. Long was really, really good last year, but we're seeing a lot of trouble in his game right now for whatever reason. He could shutout Freeney next week, who knows.

    I'm not knocking the FO. That's a lot of money at #1 and you can't miss on that pick. The current system dictates it. So I think we all understand. But knowing what we know now, we'd take Ryan. No question.
     
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  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What's the point of Fort Knox if there is no gold to protect. The only reason the LT position is so important is because of what it protects, the QB.

    Im with Muck. QB first everytime.
     
  12. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I actually think Ryan looked very average today. He also has a problem throwing more than about 15 yards. If he didn't, we lose by another 2 or 3 TD's.
     
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  13. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    OT: Right now I'm watching one of the better arms in the league, Jay Cutler, throw to Green Bay defenders like they have dirty pictures of him.

    Sometimes I think it's important to remember how some of the 'other' QB's out there might be performing as Miami Dolphins. ;)

    As I said in another thread, sometimes you have to choose your limitations. Sure we'd love to have a vertical offense. But for a team whose margin of error is smaller than many, Pennington is usually your best bet.

    Doesn't mean we can't moan about all the checking down. But all the other intangibles tend to be what keeps us in games.
     
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  14. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    What's the point of having gold if it's going to get stolen due to weak security?
     
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  15. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The dirty little secret no one wants to admit: Jake long wasn't even the best LT in the 2008 draft. Ryan Clady has outperformed Jake.

    Anyone who says We didn't make a mistake by not picking Ryan is kidding themselves. I understand WHY we picked Long, and I agreed with it. However, with hindsight, it was a mistake.

    At least we didn't take Chris Long!!!
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
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  16. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    It's harder to acquire gold than hire security. ;)

    Put it this way.....

    Who would you have drafted: Tom Brady or Walter Jones?

    And Cutler just threw another one up for grabs. The Packers almost took it back for six. The folks at Lambeau must think they're seeing the Ghost of #4. :lol:
     
  17. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Well, right now, we have the worst of all worlds: no gold (Matt Ryan) and no security, either. It wasn't just that Long was getting blown up by John Abraham; he was getting blown up by Kroy Biermann (who?) as well.

    The point is, LT is just one of five offensive linemen. The most important, sure, but still just one of five. QB, especially in the modern game, counts for more than any other player, even an LT. If Long was an all-world LT and Ryan just another QB, it might be worth it. But that just doesn't look like the case right now.

    Of course, the front office thinks they've got somebody special with Henne. If he's as good as Ryan, and Long gets it turned around, then taking Long might still wind up making sense. But it doesn't look like a sensible choice right now.
     
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  18. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Agree and agree. And agree. :)

    I think it was my brother that said a month before that Clady should be considered. At any rate, Clady's been a chauffeur.

    Let me be clear. Speaking for everyone here, nobody is bashing Long or the front office. We're strictly talking hindsight here. And it's nice that we can do that maturely. :)

    At least it wasn't Gholston!
     
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  19. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I respect your opinion and position Muck. But, I will respectfully disagree. Well, sort of.

    One game does not make Jake Long a bad pick, nor a bad LT. Lets not forget...we were not the only team to pass on Ryan. Rams did too. My point...Ryan was not a slam dunk coming out. If he was, the Rams would've jumped all over him. Bulger or not. Besides, much was said, and rightfully so IMO about rebuilding starting in the trenches. Not to mention the chances of whiffing on a QB at #1 overall (Alex Smith anyone?).

    IMO, in the long run, Long will be better because of this game. The entire O-line will be better. It takes time. Matt Ryan? Well, I think he is the franchise QB Atlanta hoped for. He certainly played like it today. But, this whole Ryan vs. Long debate is way premature IMO. Let's give these guys a chance to build a body of work, then we can debate and dissect. Until then, I say lets give Big Jake and our FO the benefit of the doubt.

    Go Phins!
     
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  20. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly, Muck.

    I wore my Long jersey today. I want him to be the right choice.

    And I HATE the gold/fort Knox analogy. Gold inside of a building is finite. Human beings are not. Had we drafted Ryan, he might have gotten killed last year, but you build around him. Plenty of pro bowl Qbs took their lumps ther rookie year.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  21. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    If people could predict the future Brady would have been drafted first overall, Westbrook wouldn't have been taken in later rounds, Dawkins wouldn't have been taken in the later rounds, Driver wouldn't have been taken in the 7th, Zach Thomas wouldn't have been taken in the later rounds, Nnamda Asomugha would have gone a lot higher, etc.

    It is one thing to say that it was a mistake now (which, because of a couple of mistakes I'm not ready to call it that) but nobody can predict the future and it is what it is.

    Every player in the league has strengths and weaknesses and for me it starts in the trenches. Clady has out performed Long for one year. Ryan has had one good season.

    Lets see how this shakes out in a few years.

    None of them are mistakes at the moment and I wouldn't have picked Ryan at #1. QB is too much of a gamble.
     
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  22. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    I'm going to say it again: Ricky Williams is still the better and more decisive runner on this team. He doesn't get caught from behind, he has better vision, and he very, very rarely gets dropped for a loss. Ronnie doesn't have the vision or patience to let the blocks develop. That's not a knock on Ronnie, it's just something RW has that RB does not. When RW has the ball in his hands, he will make something happen. Ronnie is NOT the RB that everyone THINKS he is. Sure, when he gets to the second level, he is a threat. The problem is, he is slow to get there. RW is more explosive and has more potential for the big play. Most folks will not like this, but it's straight up the truth. I'm not saying this would have made a difference in the game - given the 4 turnovers, but Ronnie get caught from the backside pursuit way too often because he is indecisive. RW runs and makes something out of what might be nothing. He's just a more complete back than RB. That's why RB has not been offered an extension by this regime. THEY know they can get a better back than RB. Ronnie is a powerful runner in the open field, but him getting there is the issue.

    So go ahead and shoot me now.
     
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  23. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Tom Brady analogy is flawed. Matt Ryan was in the conversation for the #1 pick and we opted for Long (the guy I wanted). We were wrong. That's my only point.

    Here's an analogy: the 1984 NBA draft

    Houston took Hakeem Olajuan #1
    Portland took Sam Bowie #2
    Chicago took Jordan

    Houston won rings with Hakeem. He was the greates center of his era...but he ain't Jordan.
    None of them are mistakes at the moment and I wouldn't have picked Ryan at #1. QB is too much of a gamble.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  24. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    One bad game and people are calling for his head, he faced plenty of speed rushers last year and made the probowl.

    Hindsight is 20/20 though but I would take Ryan over Long if we could do it over again? but who would protect him? thats the question.


    Dont you mean its just your opinion, since when is an internet message board filled with objectivity?



    I agree Ronnie did not play good today, Ricky looked exsplosive, however I still think he's a stud blah blah blah I'm way too tired of this debate
     
  25. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree 100%
     
  26. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Honestly I think we're pretty much on the same page. :)

    We had holes pretty much everywhere. So aside from some positions being more important than others, we could pretty much address any of them and be ok. Long was the least risky pick at #1. Nobody begrudges the logic behind it.

    That said, I think the amount of immediate impact a guy has makes a difference. If we knew Shawn Murphy would be inactive all of last season, while Donald Thomas would seize the starting job 3 days into camp, we'd have drafted Thomas earlier and not traded up in the 4th round to take Murphy.

    As such, Matt Ryan looks better earlier in his career. I'm not calling Jake a bust. Far from it. And Ryan has a TON of weapons around him. But he was proving to be a franchise player at the most important position in sports, as a rookie. That trumps all IMO.

    Including the preseason, Long's play has regressed a bit compared to last year. Maybe that's due to stronger competition. I don't think he's a bust. This certainly is a marathon, not a sprint. And I think he'll improve. But right now every Dolphin fan out there is worried about him the next two games.

    Anything could happen. Maybe Jake is hurt, who knows. But right now, with hindsight being what it is and our QB's being Josh McCown and John Beck, Brett Favre pulling weeds in Mississippi, Chad Pennington preparing for his 9th season in NY and Chad Henne being an unknown (today), Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells would have taken Matt Ryan.

    Now if Chad Henne turns out to be the second coming.....I reserve the right to revise history yet again. :D:D:D:D:D
     
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  27. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    The point of my post was to point out which position was more important. ;)

    I'm not saying it was a bad pick. Just that....knowing what we know now....it would have been Ryan.
     
  28. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not really. Ryan Clady can't hold Long's jock strap.
     
  29. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I just got a #77 jersey too. Glad I forgot to put it on. Didn't want its first game to be a loss. :D
     
  30. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ricky Williams isn't better than Ronnie Brown

    Ryan Clady isn't better than Jake Long.

    Drafting Jake Long over Ryan Wasn't a mistake.
     
  31. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    There's an old saying: gold can't always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold.
     
  32. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm trying real hard not to be a jerk in response to this. Maybe you should research Clady. He was voted to the All Pro team last year. Much more presigious than pro bowl because the fans don't get to vote.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  33. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your opinions are worthless without including a modicum of analysis.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  34. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Jake Long gave up 1.5 more sacks today than Ryan Clady has his entire career.

    We can debate their skill sets and such. But you gotta admit that Clady is one of the best tackles in the league. Sports Illustrated says Clady is the very best.

    Remember, nobody is bashing Jake Long here.
     
  35. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    It's all good Muck. And, you're right...I think we're more in agreement than disagreement. But, I gotta protect my boy. Case you couldn't tell, I'm Big Jake's Big Dog Daddy. So, I'm gonna protect my boy no matter what :wink2:

    Let's just hope he gets it together and pancakes Mr. Freeney early and often next Monday night. Otherwise, I just might have to think about putting my boy up for adoption....J/K.
     
  36. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I like that one. I think it better describes the mentality of the players we're looking for.

    I just think QB is more important than any other position.
     
  37. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I probably should have looked at your sig. :lol:

    If that left side can get it together, the best medicine would be running right at Freeney.
     
  38. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    It is.
     
  39. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    [​IMG]

    Right, let's not forget that run blocking is Jake's speciality.
    You forgot to mention that SI also called Jake's runblocking supperior to Clady's.
     
  40. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I didn't forget anything. I was responding to a post that said Clady can't hold Jake's jockstrap. I didn't have to say much. ;)

    Jake is a better run blocker. But Clady is arguably the best pass blocker in the league. Is Jake's run blocking as good as Clady's pass blocking?

    SI did rate Clady #1 overall at the position.
     

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