Ok, Ive noticed tonight I've made several wine induced posts about us, and our need to trade for Roy Williams. Partly because i see our offense, and how dead it seems without an actual threat at receiver. You look over our roster, and nobody really stands out at WR. Ginn has potential possibly, but he hasnt shown much. Bess is looking good, but raw. Camarillo has shown me some things.. Wilford is taking us for an easy paycheck right now, and Hagan is proving to be nothing more than a bust. I've watched Roy play alot, seeing as im so close to detroit and am force-fed their games on tv here, and the guy is quite the talent. With that being said... We have 2 second round picks... we desperately need a WR, and a CB. we all know that its rare that you spend a 1st rounder on a receiver... So im thinking if Roy Williams can be had out of Detroit for a 2nd, preferably Washington's 2nd, and then we can draft a CB in the first round, and still have a 2nd round pick... why not do it? If im Ireland, im pulling the trigger on this one, but i feel the general consensus here is that we shoudlnt. Somebody talk me out of it... or should we really go after him. Just looking for some reasons as to why some think we should stay away.
the price. The lions are not gonna trade him for less than a 1st. At the end of the year, they'll just franchise him. One way or another, the lions will get a first for him. They have no reason to accept anything less.
This team needs alot more then just a CB and WR. They need to keep all the picks they have in rounds 1-3.
The price is too high. I say keep the picks and go after a big strong WR, a good corner, and another hard hitting safety to compliment Bell, who I hope gets his extension done. Linebacker needs to be addressed as well.
I think we will eventually have to get a WR here. Roy Williams could be that option here but I'm looking at Anquan Boldin first to be honest with you. Boldin is a better player than Williams in my opinion. Boldin has better hands, stronger wrists, difficult tackle due to him always keeping his legs going and has put up better numbers than Williams. I think we should check the availability of him first and then move on to Roy. I'd like to bring in Roy here and I think that a second rounder or third rounder would be good to give up because its very difficult to draft WR's if you ask me. You don't know what your going to get out of them. I know many here are big on not giving up draft picks but teams can't be only built in the draft and this is one of our weaknesses. To top it off, the weakness is very hard to draft. However, I brought it up a couple times about Roy's character flags. We have seen him chew out his QB on the field, have trouble with other teammates, have trouble with fans, talk bad about the organization (said Lions were cursed and wanted out of there as soon as possible). question the coaches and possibly not play hard because he's in a losing situation. I've read that he is whiffing on blocks and rounding off his routes this year as well. Not good imo, especially since your not only trading for this guy but your planning on giving him top dollar in a few months. If the front office/management can get past those flags then I think you have to strongly consider bringing him in due to it being a big need here but if I had the choice, I go and see what Boldin is available for.
i would rather keep the picks and get micheal crabtree if we are going reciever. crabtree has less baggage,is younger and imo a better reciever for us than williams. also isn't roy hurt alot?
bwah!! yeah thats the plan..when you go through our past 5 yrs i guess ya start getting used to it. you'll have to excuse me as my drink is a little stiffer than brandon27's wine.
How? The guy hasn't set foot on an NFL football field. Regarding his injuries, Roy has played in 83% of his games.
Offer Washington's 2nd, that's just one less need for the future given Williams' youth and the fact that Camarillo is looking to be a legit #2 receiver... Just means that we can stick Ginn on kick/punt returns and in the slot.
I dont ever really recall roy being injury prone? Ive drank quite a bit today though... but, yeah... I just dont remember it.
Your right. Wells has been injured all throughout his career. All I think is were a rebuilding team no reason to fork over a draft pick for him. Now if we could get him for a 3rd then sure why not but I say no way to Second rounders.
reargding the injuries i must be getting him confused with one of the other 1st rnd picks of the lions(mike williams maybe?). and no crabtree hasn't played a down in the nfl yet(so now if you haven't played "in the nfl yet" your automatically a bust?) but he will,just my opinion i suppose..they are almost identical in size with crabtree bieng 1 inch taller but around 6 pounds lighter. also he seems to have better character than roy(imo)..again i may be thinking of one of the other det.recievers but hasn't roy had some drug issues? crabtree has great hands,speed,vision,runs nice routes,knows how to get seperation,determination and heart from what i have seen from him..kinda reminds me of a wes welker in a derek hagan body. and i don't know why but i just have never been fond of roy williams. you can call me crazy as long as you realize i am not calling myself an expert.
Possibly lol. Who said that if you haven't played, your automatically a bust? That doesn't even make sence. Ah ok, so you think he's going to be a better player at the next level. At first you said that he was a better receiver for us than Roy which didn't make sense to me because we don't need another WR to develop nor do we know how Crabtree will translate to the NFL, unlike with Roy, we know how he plays and what he's capable of. Also, Crabtree, imo, needs to work on his routes. He can run them pretty well but needs work on them. On film, I've never seen him run more than four routes so I wonder how capable of he is of running more difficult routes. I understand what your saying brother.
Williams is a bit of a headcase. And he tends to play like Randy Moss sometimes, taking plays off, slacking, not always going after it etc. Hes got some talent, but hes not really a guy I want to much. Hes not a terrible person to be sure, but its the little things he does (or rather doesnt do) that makes me go "eh" whenever these threads come up. Also, he will be a FA after this year. We would definately need to make sure he wants to play here long term before giving up any kind of a pick for him.
I'm a huge fan of Roy Williams and would love to bring him in for whatever it takes. If they want a 2nd rounder I say give it to them. That way we can use the first 2 picks to focus on the secondary because WR will be a high need going into the draft if we don't get him.
Heck giving up a 2nd round pick for Williams just means we can avoid drafting a WR early. Possibly use that first round pick for a cornerback or some other need (unless something amazing drops in our laps ala Merling)..
no. because you still have to make room for him on the 53 man roster. i would rather go through the draft and get a young guy who you can build in the system you want from the get go.
With Breaston impressing, Cards could lose some leverage on a Boldin trade or be better compensated so there's a slight chance. That said, I've always loved big WR's (Marshall, TO, Moss, Braylon, Andre) and Roy Williams is one of them. Big WR's can outleap defenders and use their bodies to shield passes (see Fitz v. Allen 2008). And the ideal WR duo I like is the one Denver had with Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey (ironically both during Dorrell's stint as WR coach). Yin and Yang. Speedy guy Smith and big target Ed. I've seen Williams play, no doubt in my mind if he stays healthy, he's a real #1 threat. Boldin's no slouch either but I think he would work extremely best with a big target like Fitz next to him, which we lack. Now as for Williams, well, we're talking about the Lions here. Moss would've been pulling a Sprewell by now if he were a Lion. I'm just passing it off as a case of just bad blood after years of being a Lion, going back to the cursed comment, not exactly unfounded. Now Boldin's had his tiff with the coach this season too so he's not immune himself after demanding a trade and causing a media frenzy. I wouldn't spend more than a 2nd on either but I would gladly ship a 2nd if any one of those two were available for the price and I would **** bricks in the highly unlikely case we can feasibly get both (Williams FA + Boldin trade). Of course, unless Mike Martz ran the show, it's just a pipe.
Could possibly be similar to the Sprewell fiasco but its not something you want to see. Regarding Boldin, your right but he said to ignore the contract talks because its the regular season. Boldin is still playing his arse off and working very hard. I'm not so sure Williams is and that bothers me.
I'm all for Williams but someone posted in a thread before the game that Adam Schefter said a John Beck for Shaun McDonald type of deal was more likely. I would be all for it. How about you guys?
It'd take a Boy Scout mentality for a guy to keep playing his *** off for the Lions. He is really frustrated and it shows. It doesn't seem like he's playing his hardest but I think he is. He's a very competitive guy and really the Lions aren't focusing on him because the QB can't get past 1-Mississippi and the Lions are foolishly going run-oriented with all that talent at WR. Now he has dropped a lot of passes lately, 4 I believe against the Bears, but a lot of those balls were thrown behind or at his feet. Catching those balls lands you on a stretcher. I would be very interested in seeing Roy in a much better environment.
That would be nice deal though at best a stop-gap. Still think a big target WR is just what this offense needs.
I actually think that Roy Williams would put up some beastly numbers here to be honest. He'd at least get six to seven balls thrown in his direction a week. When you've got an accurate QB who can hit in the right spot in your route and give you room to run (I mean honestly Camarillo can run after the catch with Pennington's throws) you can do some damage. It would immense for the rest of the offense. Things would really start flowing. Today's 28 point performance would look paltry.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! This draft has the potential to hold the motherload of Senior and Juniors to come out. You have to remember that the CBA will be up in 2010 and the players are being urged to come out for the 2009 draft to get their money before the possibility of a cap could be implimented. If they do come out, then this draft will be exceptionally deep the first day and into the start of the second and we are in an absolutely excellent spot the first day with three picks. I see no reason to trade for a WR for a team that is not going to make a playoff run this year, he's not the missing piece that is going to make us a contender, so keep the picks and grab an excellent yong guy next year in a very deep draft.
He's worth a first... JUMP on this deal Ireland! He is a proven receiver, not a rookie who know one even knows will pan out! That very well may be a key decision this week. Release Wilford or try to include him in the trade.
