RUMOR: Big trade between Miami and Dallas?

Ginn was horribly misused last year IMO, very rarely did we attempt to take advantage of his downfield ability and when we did our QB's couldn't hit him (Green - Weak arm, Lemon - poor accuracy, Beck - bland playcalling). When he did get a chance and had a few balls thrown his way he did a fine job and showed very good hands. I'm not quite sure how one could come to the conclusion that Ginn is nothing more than a slot receiver under those conditions.

If it's size you're aluding to, how tall is Steve Smith?

 

Maybe it was the lackluster QB play. But I just don't see the greatness that so many people seem to have seen in Ted Ginn. It might be there. I don't like to say boom or bust after a year, much less a 1-15.

But other than his natural hands, I have not seen the consistent ability to run precise routes, get off press coverage or the change-of-direction ability to do damage in the open field or returns when the blocking isn't good-to-great or coverage busted.

Until more time has passed, I will continue to reserve judgment.

 

We had two players in two years return two and three TDs.

Returning TDs is more about the system and blocking than the guy.

He returned one last year right? (please God don't talk about ones called back)

BZ

 

The Jet fans among us apparently dont know anything about Ginn .

He is a long strider more suited to go downfield than to be employed as a slot receiver

By special teams we mean as a returner .

 

Yes and no. The blocking and system do make a difference, but you cant teach vision and speed. I feel Ginn has both and will only get better as he gains more experience. And yes he had a couple called back that were typical holds or blocks in the back you could call on every kickoff/punt.

I dont think its any secret we probably had the worst ST in the NFL last year. Im excited to see what Ginn does with a solid core blocking for him.

 

Kickoffs perhaps (with better blocking).

Punts, I don't think he'll ever be among the best (based on what I've seen so far) because he has to make moves in a phone booth. And that ain't his game. He's too long a strider. That was Booker's game. And unfortunately that guy couldn't field kicks consistently.

It is possible that he stops dancing and just starts hitting it on kickoffs. Mentality helps on punts too. But again, you've got to move and accelerate. I just haven't seen it yet.

 

I like he has "speed and vision" and "natural hands"...

What WRs don't have good speed and vision? That is their job and "natural hands"? What is the opposite of that, prosthetic hands?

Ted Gin might be the next best thing, but I watched him return kicks in 5-6 games last year and didn't see anything special nor did he light it up in the receiving core. WRs usually come into their on the third year, but for now that high of a pick for that much money was not a good deal for him.

BZ

 

Tell that to Hester. When you return 6 kicks and a botches field goal in 1 season, that is pure talent

 

Hate It!

Ginn Is My Favorite Fin!

 

He always catches the ball with his hands, away from his body. Just the way you teach it. And he rarely, if ever, drops it.

Just looks smooth and effortless receiving the ball. "Natural".

 

can anyone tell me why some nfl players would know about discussions between 2 front offices?!?

EDIT-- And i mean....EXACT details?! Comon!

 

really? yes he is a long strider, but that does not mean he can not change direction easily... ive never seen him have an issue with that, and the blocking was never good or great last year, that didn't stop him from having a decent impact for us including our first punt return for a TD in years...

and i can not recall a time i have seen a coaches tape of the dolphins last year (overhead shot where you can actually see the receivers) that i saw ginn having trouble getting off press coverage... the few times i have seen the overhead shots of a snap i see him getting off no problem... the only one i can produce right now without thinking about it is the baltimore play with Camarillo's TD, Ginn gets off the press from the corner with ease which draws the safety over and opens up the middle, here...
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80547d87

ive seen more of this coaches fill from last year and never seen him have any difficulty getting off the line with the corner playing on the LOS... if i find it i'll post it

 

Thats why its a rumor. How does any story leak before its reported? How did that kid know we were gonna sign Ernest Wilford in the offseason?

 

keep him off of here, we dont need those guys reading this stuff.

 

Wow, someone gave this thread a 1-star.

A former NFL player gives you scuttlebutt from current NFL players and you trash it?

Looks like we'll be installing the "who gave what star" hack again.

 

I could see there being rumors flying around. It's not like the cia bro. Its a business.

 

Thank you. This smells bad to me. Especially considering that the teams involved are't in any way associated with the Raiders, who Real played for...

But, to be sure, I DO happen to have a very good source within the Raiders organization that I can e-mail/call/go over to their house and ask point blank if this thing has any legs. And my source happens to be a front office person, not a player.

Real you said you played for Oakland for a couple of years? When was this timeframe?

 

and its why i dont believe the rumor....just mho

 

Try to stay on topic. Sheesh these admins eh?

I didn't do it because I don't even know why there is a star system, but why is it a big deal? Honestly, if someone disagrees with the post or feels that the information is bogus, aren't they allowed to give them one star?

And how come every time someone gives a one star rating, everyone gets all bent out of shape and wants to know who did it and why? If it is that big of a deal, then just get rid of the one star rating.

 

Im usually as skeptical as the next guy, but when someone flat out says its a rumor and to take it for what its worth then thats what I do.

Had he come on here and said "I know for a fact..." then he has opened himself up for criticism and must provide links or facts to support his claim.

 

You're killing me, Derek. Absolutely killing me.

I cannot see even a scintilla of logic in this trade. I could believe a Taylor for Ellis and Carpenter trade. Or even Taylor for Williams and a mid round pick. But there's no way the Phins would give up Ginn, especially after spending the whole offseason trying to stockpile the special teams units.

 

While I am one that is 100% in favor of us moving JT if we can get even a 3rd round draft pick, the Ginn addition floors me.

I just don't see that happening.
He has not had the chance to evolve yet and he has talent and the speed necessary to become a great WR. The move would make absolutely zero sense to me.

Not knocking the messenger as I thankyou for the info but I'd be shocked to we were even considering this.

 

Exactly.

People are people. They talk. Just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean it wasn't discussed (or some variation of it).

OT: why does it have to be the Raiders? It's not like players spend their entire careers with one team. Or make friends with players on others.

 

whats that?

FYI - I didnt give the star

 

exactly.
No need for criticism of the original poster when he states it as a rumor.

 

I'd be disappointed to see Ginn go. he actually had the surest hands by far for us all of last season. i really trust him to catch anything reasonable thrown his way, not even getting into the speed factor. he blocked better than expected, proved tougher and stronger than expected...that would be ashame.

and wouldnt there be bad cap hit issues if we moved our #1 from last years? i like carpenter and Williams for JT and a 4th or 5th. as bad at coverage as Roy is, he's still better than what we got, and at least itd be fun to see him light some folks up.(not thrilled with carpenter tho. and the fact that he wouldnt give zack #54)

 

i didnt critcize the poster, i criticized the information....i believe its bogus, and i am entitled to feel that way.....if its true, ill gladly eat crow

 

So, taking it for what its worth, some choose not to believe it. Aren't they entitled to that?

 

Here are some gif highlights I made of him through game 8 last year.

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd1/bytesandbits/?action=view&current=TG2007.flv

 

I know. I just read it as you were calling into question his intelligence so to speak, or our intelligence for discussing it.



I don't think its true either by the way, I have alot of faith in ireland, and unless he completely lost it after the good moves he has made, at least IMO good moves, this will not happen.

 

This actually sounds like a better deal for Dallas then us. Maybe just for Taylor, but throwing in Ginn....I dont know....I dont see Ginn as a marquee player, so losing him wouldn't bother me that bad. But, Ellis is older then Taylor I think, Ditto on Williams, and Carpenter has yet to show his worth in the NFL.

 

Oh and for the record, I am not opposed to this trade. Considering JT still seems to want to leave and I agree with Muck's opinion that Ginn has not shown me anything consistant as a wideout, I would gladly take Roy Williams (who can shore up the run) Bobby Carpenter (who is a young lb to put into our system) and Greg Ellis (who is old and injured but a guy who can help mentor for a year or two).

I just can't see Miami trading away their first round pick from last year already. If they did, it would pretty much validate everyone in the pro Brady Quinn camp.

 

Williams is 27...he isn't older than Taylor.

 

not really. Of course some would use it as such, but there were other picks we could have had at that spot, quinn wasn't the only one available.

 

yeh I guess he is. Huh, well, he seems older I guess.

 

PATRICK WILLIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He just seems older because Taylor could probably beat him in a 40 yard dash.

 

Because it's disrespectful in cases like this. And many people take it that way. You were at the old site, so you probably saw the way it was (ab)used. Perhaps that is still in the back of my head.

Here, unless we're calling Real a liar, I see no reason to shoot the messenger (with a 1-star). Disagree or question what he's relaying, absolutely.

I just think we as a group are better than that.

It's a default feature. Maybe we should indeed just disable it altogether.

EDIT: Sorry if I sounded heavy-handed. I'm sure it's possible that someone wasn't intending to do as I described.

 

Yes they are. But he said he didnt believe it based on how the info got out, not why he didnt think it was visable in a football sense. Either way hes still entitled, and I still love you both.

 

You would think that with all the emphasis we have placed on special teams, they are planning on having Ginn return kicks/punts.