Rumor: Dolphins close to deal with Crabtree ($3.5-4 million a year)

If you consider that he'd be replacing Hartline, and you consider the cap hit Hartline would've had, this is yet another masterful move in this offseason.

Well, if you're adding Kenny Stills and Michael Crabtree to a list that basically only had Jarvis Landry on it, I think it's pretty obvious that this team is going WR high in the draft.

But if we forget about the money for a second, the idea that losing Hartline could be a good thing was heavily based on getting a certain physical presence. We wanted someone bigger who could get YAC. Does Crabtree give us that? Eh, no, but it's not all bad. It's not that hard to replace 40 catches and 400 yards worth of production. That's peanuts.

This move would certainly make our draft day plans a bit more flexible which seems to be the goal. It doesn't erase WR from the list of needs but we'd be able to go WR in the 2nd or 3rd round which is (I think) a far more sensible idea than reaching for someone in the 1st round in order to pair him with a passer who probably isn't going to ever throw for Brees- or Stafford-esque yardage totals.

As I said before, I don't see a Sammy Watkins or Julio Jones in this WR class. I think there is depth but definitely no one I would reach for. More importantly, Tannehill isn't going to help any of these rookie WRs get 1200 yards. No matter who we bring in, their ceiling will be about 800 yards and 5 TDs in this offense with this QB, as we saw with Jarvis Landry last year. As I hinted above, they will be playing a position that produced about 450 yards for us last year. None of those numbers sounds like a 1st round WR to me. If we were going WR in the 1st round I'd like to be able to project that guy as someone who would be putting up well over 1,000 yards for us every season with 6 to 10 TDs as well.

As I said yesterday, I'm just not sure where the production is going to come from if we add a WR with pick #14. Would that help us? Yes, but is that the smartest move considering the depth in this WR class? Should we be looking to land a WR in the 2nd round maybe? That uncertainty makes me think that this team will be trying as hard as they can to stay open-minded when it comes to their 1st round selection. I think Tannenbaum and Hickey want to be able to move down depending on who's available and I think they want to be able to pick anyone who they think is a top-tier talent.

I think the team simply wants to go into the draft being able to go BPA throughout the higher picks and that seems like a great goal from where I sit because I could stand to see us go with a defensive player at any position just as much as I could see us going skill position or O-line.

"DolphinGreg wrote:

If we forget about the money for a second, the idea that losing Hartline could be a good thing was heavily based on getting a certain physical presence. Does Crabtree give us that? Eh, possibly. It's not that hard to replace 40 catches and 400 yards worth of production. That's peanuts. This move would certainly make our draft day plans a bit more flexible which seems to be the goal.

I think the team simply wants to go into the draft being able to go BPA throughout the higher picks and that seems like a great goal from where I sit.

The idea of losing Hartline being a good thing is that he sucked, regardless of money. He was horrible to average at everything important. He is a below average talent that benefitted from being on a team with even worse talent at WR than him (Bess & Nananee) then coverage issues thanks to Wallace. His averages are poor, his TDs are some of the worst historically in the league for #1/#2 WR. Then to top it all off, he was a dbag and cancer in the locker room. The only skill he possessed was sideline catches, to which I say, whoopie freaking doo.

"Fin D wrote:

The idea of losing Hartline being a good thing is that he sucked, regardless of money. He was horrible to average at everything important. He is a below average talent that benefitted from being on a team with even worse talent at WR than him (Bess & Nananee) then coverage issues thanks to Wallace. His averages are poor, his TDs are some of the worst historically in the league for #1/#2 WR. Then to top it all off, he was a dbag and cancer in the locker room. The only skill he possessed was sideline catches, to which I say, whoopie freaking doo.

Don't bad-mouth the Black Ninja by putting him in the same sentence as Legedonothing.

"Fin D wrote:

The idea of losing Hartline being a good thing is that he sucked, regardless of money. He was horrible to average at everything important. He is a below average talent that benefitted from being on a team with even worse talent at WR than him (Bess & Nananee) then coverage issues thanks to Wallace. His averages are poor, his TDs are some of the worst historically in the league for #1/#2 WR. Then to top it all off, he was a dbag and cancer in the locker room. The only skill he possessed was sideline catches, to which I say, whoopie freaking doo.

Oh, c'mon, you can't sit there and tell us all the guy "sucks." He did do enough to earn a pretty damn large contract. There was a reason we offered that to him in the first place. He was going to get paid somewhere. He had back to back 1,000-yd seasons with a super-raw (dare I say bad) QB and basically no talent around him besides Davone Bess? And because he was coming off an ACL injury, entering a new offense and got 50% the number of targets we were all expecting him to he sucks? You do realize he converted on the same percentage last year as in his two previous years, right? Anyone can see that when you get targeted at 50% the rate you did in prior years, your numbers are going to drop. Bill Lazor obviously wanted to give Tannehill a bunch of dump-off passes last year to move the chains which is why we saw Landry and Clay have solid seasons (2nd and 3rd leading receivers on the team, respectively) and why we saw Tannehill's completion percentage get so high even though as we all know he's not that great of a passer.

Eh, no offense but you sound like a typical fan. It's predictable talk from where I sit. Once a player has a down season or moves on, the fans turn their back on them and call them trash. I've seen it a thousand times and it's not news to me. I've been a fan of this team for the last 3 years just like you, so I'll remind you that you can't sit there and re-write history just because the guy is gone now or because he had a year under a new offensive coordinator that chose not to throw to him. Oh, and he talked about Ryan Tannehill in real terms. Ryan Tannehill threw for 4,000 yards last year and people peed their pants about it. Welcome to the modern NFL, that's to be expected guys. Tannehill isn't great. I like him but Hartline's words were always accurate.

All of Jarvis Landry's production last year? About three-quarters of those passes used to go to Hartline. So if you are patting Landry on the back you'd better realize that production is the same no matter the number or name on the jersey. If you want to say Hartline sucks, you might as well well say the same thing for Landry who padded his stats with all the targets that used to go to Hartline. Landry is a good slot guy. Hartline was a good outside guy. There's little difference. Hartline is never going to get YAC. Landry is never going to operate outside the numbers. If you hate Hartline now, give Jarvis Landry about 3 years and you'll be claiming his lack of size and speed are liabilities, too.

From the comments a 49er fan....makes me feel good:

Signing our former #1 WR for about the same $s our former #3 WR got
Good signing for Miami.

Stevie Johnson 3 yrs $10.5 mill = $3.5/yr

Health must have been an issue. Agent not impressive. I was expecting in the $5 mil/yr. like Eddie Royal.

If it’s more than a 2 yr deal, it’s a real poor deal for Crab. For him I hope he gets healthy.

"DolphinGreg wrote:

The guy who had back to back 1,000-yd seasons with a super-raw QB and basically no talent around him besides Davone Bess sucks?

Eh, no offense but you sound like a typical fan. It's predictable talk from where I sit. Once a player has a down season or moves on, the fans turn their back on them and call their trash. I've seen it a thousand time and it's not news to me. I've been a fan of this team for the last 3 years just like you, so I'll remind you that you can't sit there and re-write history just because the guy is gone now or because he had a year under a new offensive coordinator that chose not to throw to him.

All of Jarvis Landry's production last year? About three-quarters of those passes used to go to Hartline. So if you are patting Landry on the back you'd better realize that production is the same no matter the number or name on the jersey. If you want to say Hartline sucks, you might as well well say the same thing for Landry who padded his stats with all the targets that used to go to Hartline. Landry is a good slot guy. Hartline was a good outside guy. There's little difference. Hartline is never going to get YAC. Landry is never going to operate outside the numbers. If you hate Hartline now, give Jarvis Landry about 3 years and you'll be claiming his lack of size and speed are liabilities, too.

1000 yrd season means nothing. Its a pointless benchmark on its own that people assign to a receiver. I was down on Hartline since his first 1000 yrd season. You can search to find it or don't, I don't much care. But that year he was the worst #1 Wr on any team in meaningful stats.

1000 yrd seasons only matter if there's other good stats to go with it like TDs, or a good YPC/YPT. There aren't with him. He's crap.

Now really, if you want to question someone's opinion being clouded by fandom, then I would think anyone who valued Hartline is probably being a homer.

Also, where did I mention Landry? I didn't.

But since you brought him up, he has better hands, was a rookie, a leader and is cheaper than Hartline. He also plays the slot. If you think the #2 WR on a team should have similar numbers as a slot WR than you probably aren't qualified to make the argument you're making.

"Fin D wrote:

1000 yrd season means nothing. Its a pointless benchmark on its own that people assign to a receiver. I was down on Hartline since his first 1000 yrd season. You can search to find it or don't, I don't much care.

1000 yrd seasons only matter if there's other good stats to go with it like TDs, or a good YPC/YPT. There aren't with him. He's crap.

Now really, if you want to question someone's opinion being clouded by fandom, then I would think anyone who valued Hartline is probably being a homer.

Exactly its like hitting .300 with no RBIs or homeruns.....great, you hit a bunch of singles. But you didnt help your team win games.

"Fin D wrote:

1000 yrd season means nothing. Its a pointless benchmark on its own that people assign to a receiver. I was down on Hartline since his first 1000 yrd season. You can search to find it or don't, I don't much care. But that year he was the worst #1 Wr on any team in meaningful stats.

1000 yrd seasons only matter if there's other good stats to go with it like TDs, or a good YPC/YPT. There aren't with him. He's crap.

Now really, if you want to question someone's opinion being clouded by fandom, then I would think anyone who valued Hartline is probably being a homer.

Also, where did I mention Landry? I didn't.

But since you brought him up, he has better hands, was a rookie, a leader and is cheaper than Hartline. He also plays the slot. If you think the #2 WR on a team should have similar numbers as a slot WR than you probably aren't qualified to make the argument you're making.

Don't be jelly

"lmeister3 wrote:

Don't be jelly

That chick let him do that, because he's so buck toothed he can open her wine bottle with his mouth.

"Fin D wrote:

That chick let him do that, because he's so buck toothed he can open her wine bottle with his mouth.

Nice, it's one of the Top 5 answers, but number 1 was: "Because they both live in Ohio"

"Fin D wrote:

1000 yrd season means nothing. Its a pointless benchmark on its own that people assign to a receiver. I was down on Hartline since his first 1000 yrd season. You can search to find it or don't, I don't much care. But that year he was the worst #1 Wr on any team in meaningful stats.

1000 yrd seasons only matter if there's other good stats to go with it like TDs, or a good YPC/YPT. There aren't with him. He's crap.

Now really, if you want to question someone's opinion being clouded by fandom, then I would think anyone who valued Hartline is probably being a homer.

Also, where did I mention Landry? I didn't.

But since you brought him up, he has better hands, was a rookie, a leader and is cheaper than Hartline. He also plays the slot. If you think the #2 WR on a team should have similar numbers as a slot WR than you probably aren't qualified to make the argument you're making.

Landry has better hands the Hartline? Really? First of all, where are all these amazing catches Jarvis Landry is making because I don't see them. Catching passes out of the slot ain't very hard. If a 2nd round rookie can come in and catch 85 balls I'm pretty sure it's ain't rocket science because Jarvis Landry is a great kid but he's not exactly a Hall of Famer. I'm not sure what "better hands" means to you but maybe you should go back and watch Hartline's 2012 and 2013 seasons. There are numerous catches in there that Landry just can't make as a smaller, slot WR.

I'm sorry I have to call you out for being down on Hartline's 2012 and 2013 seasons but a person can't say what you're saying and still be credible. I'm inviting you to go back and inform yourself because you clearly have formed an opinion of Hartline that is based on his 2014 season alone.

I'll take Hartline's 2012 and 2013 hands on my team any day of the week. He was damn good. He didn't make all those catches last year because the new offense changed what routes he was running and because he got 50% of the targets he had been getting. This isn't opinion or made up stuff. These are facts.

"Fin D wrote:

That chick let him do that, because he's so buck toothed he can open her wine bottle with his mouth.

Funny thing is when he went to have sex with her, he tripped before entering and ruined the mood....

"DolphinGreg wrote:

Landry has better hands the Hartline? Really? First of all, where are all these amazing catches Jarvis Landry is making because I don't see them. Catching passes out of the slot ain't very hard. If a 2nd round rookie can come in and catch 85 balls I'm pretty sure it's ain't rocket science because Jarvis Landry is a great kid but he's not exactly a Hall of Famer. I'm not sure what "better hands" means to you but maybe you should go back and watch Hartline's 2012 and 2013 seasons. There are numerous catches in there that Landry just can't make as a smaller, slot WR.

I'm sorry I have to call you out for being down on Hartline's 2012 and 2013 season but people can't say what you're saying and still be credible.

I'll take Hartline 2012 and 2013 hands on my team any day of the week. He didn't make all those catches last year because the new offense changed what routes he was running and because he got 50% of the targets he had been getting. This isn't opinion or made up stuff. These are facts.

So you judge catch ability by the always trusty "amazing catches" category you just made up and has no set of parameters? Awesome. Thanks for that.

You're on the internet, use it. Go out and see how good Landry's hands are. Bring us numbers. Then we'll talk.

"SICK wrote:

Funny thing is when he went to have sex with her, he tripped before entering and ruined the mood....

Also a Top 5 answer, but #1 was "They tried to make it work, but soon after realizing there would be contact, he immediately collapsed into the fetal position".

$3.5M for Crabtree is a very good deal. If it's multiple years with low guarantee, it's even better. Very low risk and potential high reward when you consider scheme fit, and if he returns to pre-injury form.

You guys don't have the bottom part of that picture, I do. The bottom part shows the woman sitting on a stool, with her hairy back exposed, and that poor bastard shaving her back with hair clippers. You can see the disgust in his face.

"Sumlit wrote:

$3.5M for Crabtree is a very good deal. If it's multiple years with low guarantee, it's even better. Very low risk and potential high reward when you consider scheme fit, and if he returns to pre-injury form.

Exactly we need to A) wait until its finalized and B) wait to see the incentives and guarantees on the contract.

If we're the only ones sniffing on this guy, we can go low risk high reward....its a win-win for everyone.

"lmeister3 wrote:

Also a Top 5 answer, but #1 was "They tried to make it work, but soon after realizing there would be contact, he immediately collapsed into the fetal position".

Before the picture was taken:

"OMG Becca, take a funny picture with that human beaver dressed in a 90's prom outfit!!!"

"DolphinGreg wrote:

This is a weird forum.

"Fin D wrote:

Before the picture was taken:

"OMG Becca, take a funny picture with that human beaver dressed in a 90's prom outfit!!!"

Did Hartline do something inappropriate to one of your farm animals or something?

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

Did Hartline do something inappropriate to one of your farm animals or something?

Yeah, I needed his teeth to plow the fields and he declined.

"DolphinGreg wrote:

But if we forget about the money for a second, the idea that losing Hartline could be a good thing was heavily based on getting a certain physical presence. We wanted someone bigger who could get YAC. Does Crabtree give us that? Eh, no, but it's not all bad.

That's Cameron.

As I said before, I don't see a Sammy Watkins or Julio Jones in this WR class.

Ironic you should say that, because Cooper and White are virtual Watkins and Jones clones, respectively, and they'll likely be picked at about the same spots in the first round.

"DolphinGreg wrote:

Oh, c'mon, you can't sit there and tell us all the guy "sucks." He did do enough to earn a pretty damn large contract. There was a reason we offered that to him in the first place. He was going to get paid somewhere. He had back to back 1,000-yd seasons with a super-raw (dare I say bad) QB and basically no talent around him besides Davone Bess? And because he was coming off an ACL injury, entering a new offense and got 50% the number of targets we were all expecting him to he sucks? You do realize he converted on the same percentage last year as in his two previous years, right? Anyone can see that when you get targeted at 50% the rate you did in prior years, your numbers are going to drop. Bill Lazor obviously wanted to give Tannehill a bunch of dump-off passes last year to move the chains which is why we saw Landry and Clay have solid seasons (2nd and 3rd leading receivers on the team, respectively) and why we saw Tannehill's completion percentage get so high even though as we all know he's not that great of a passer.

I agree with what you said about Hartline, but the cap hit he would've had in 2015 was way out of proportion with the role he would've had.

What we're seeing here is someone who's entered the front office who has a great deal of skill in getting the biggest bang for the buck out of players.