Moore + Long for Fitz. Will never happen, but would anyone go for it? We would need to assume Long comes to some kind of agreement with the Cards. As for Moore, I would probably do it for a 4th, but we should push for a 3 or even 2. While I understand that draft picks can be overvalued, if we are relying on Moore due to a Tanny injury we aren't going far anyway, and he will probably leave after this season, so take what you can get.
I would do the same for the reasons you suggest as well as the fact that Irish tends to do well when picking in the later rounds. Getting something for the asset of Moore is the right thing to do for this team right now. He'll have the remainder of the season to make an impact in Arizona and that would make sense for both them and Moore... As to what we'd do if Tanny goes down, well by that time would it really make a hootin' hollerin' difference ? I'm sure there is someone (Garrard, etc) that could fillin should that happen. And as has been said, at that point with the way that Moore has played in this offense I don't think we'd miss much even if tanny went down...
If I do this I get David Garrard into Davie and evaluate his physical condition before I make the trade. If he clears and is ready to play, then I make the trade and immediately sign him. I don't make the trade and then sit around and wait for Tannehill to get hurt and then see about David Garrard.
I have never seen a player so over valued as Matt Moore is on this forum. The Dolphins would be lucky to get a sixth round draft pick for him and I think it is more likely it would be a seventh round pick, if the Cardinals did happen to trade for him. Moore is a backup QB in the NFL and he was beaten out of the starting job by a rookie QB. Garrard was also playing better than Moore before his injury. If the Cardinals are really interested in Moore as a NFL QB. All they have to do is wait until the season is over and they can sign him to a free agent contract without giving up any draft picks for him. Moore wouldn't be able to go to the Cardinals and replace Skelton right now anyway. He doesn't know the offense of the Cardinals and as was shown during the Dolphins recent preseason, he isn't quick to pick up on new offensive schemes. The Cardinals have been playing this season with two QB's who are about on par with Moore. I don't see him going to the Cardinals and upgrading the position. The Cardinals need to do what the Dolphins did this past off season. They need to draft a QB in the first round of next years draft and quit trying to get by with QB's who are never going to be their answer at that position. I really don't care if Moore is traded because the Dolphins can just bring back Garrard to back up Tannehill. I believe Garrard is better than Moore in the WCO.
I'd feel better with Garrard or Devlin running the team in the event Tanny goes down, instead of Moore. He's not right for this offense and he's proven it by being beat out by a rookie. I think Moore was kept to help Tanny get acclimated to the team and would be gone if Garrard wasn't injured at the time. I also think we could get a 3rd for him. He impressed people last year. That's what raises offers.
I understand. Personally I believe Miami's playoff chances are a little overrated at the moment. But that's a different topic. I think you're right in that you would like to make a quick call to Garrard and feel him out on coming in for a few pay checks to ride the pine as a backup. One thing though...and I don't expect everyone to agree with me here...but I don't think Tannehill has a high likelihood of getting hurt. He's not that type of quarterback. He's big and solid. He's got a flick delivery. He gets the ball out quickly, in a quick game-oriented system. He has every nuance of the system mastered which includes protection calls and changes at the line. He's not the type that likes to do crazy things with the ball in his hands, in fact just the opposite a lot of time you get frustrated that he doesn't do that enough. He sees the field surprisingly well as a rookie and has always had good pocket presence. He doesn't have a history of injuries at Texas A&M. He has a history at both Texas A&M and Miami of not getting sacked very often. He has Jake Long protecting his blind side. All of these are factors that impact the likelihood of taking a significant injury. They don't make him immune, certainly. But you notice that the best quarterbacks seem to never get hurt, and when you're playing that position, with as many rules as there are protecting them, and you have all those things going in your favor...these guys go pretty long stretches without getting hurt (Favre, Brady, Peyton, Eli, etc.) There are definitely guys you can tell have a little too much rough-and-tumble type mentalities in their playing style, to where they have increased likelihood of injuries. Basically I'm saying that Tannehill isn't one of those at all, just the opposite in fact, and he's surrounded by both a system and a left tackle that aid in the effort of keeping him healthy more so than many other systems and blind side protectors.
Wow..that's a bit overboard, imo as to the value of Moore... As has been said, they already have two 'Matt Moores' on that roster with Kolb and Skelton. However, the only way I think they do this is IF Garrard or someone of that ilk is ready to go in a backup position...
It would be nice to make the draft better. We can always pick up another FA QB if need be, any way Philbin really likes Devlin from what I saw on Hard Knocks. On the other hand, trying to get even more draft picks might imply that we won't be resigning some key player(s).
And how about now? Why would Matt Moore continue to be on the roster over David Garrard if he didn't have value? IMO the parsimonious answer is that Matt Moore has far more trade value than David Garrard.
Thats not saying much, David Garrard isn't even in the league. I don't think Matt Moore has trade value to anyone at this point. By the time he got a firm enough grasp of a team's playbook, it would likely be prohibitively late in the season. At best, I think Miami could get a 6th for Moore.
I see no need for the trade, unless we need another draft pick to fill a need from not resigning one of our own players. If that is Ireland's plan than it makes sense to try to get another pick. If Ireland plans on keeping our own potential FA's then I think this trade wouldn't be necessary because I believe Matt Moore is valuable to our team this year.
Right, but IMO that reflects a combination of his expiring contract and what you said about how, as the season progresses, his value decreases, rather than his absolute value. The contextual factors are defining his value more than his ability at this point.
Ireland has a nice history with middle round picks. Caroll, Jones, and Clemons all came from that range. Lamar Miller was a 4th rounder. The better teams can play the BPA game, regardless of position. Having picks that serve as "slide nets" in the middle rounds is an excellent way to pickup a good player.
Garrard was released because of his preseason injury and to save money. I have always felt that if Garrard had remained injury free in the preseason, he would now be the teams backup and Devlin would have been kept as the third string QB. Moore would have been traded for a late round pick, 6th or 7th, or he would have been cut, if no other team offered a trade for him. I don't think he will be traded before the trade deadline and he will opt to go somewhere else next season as a free agent. I don't see the Dolphins keeping him next year or getting any type of draft pick for him. Moore played decently against some mediocre teams last year but he just isn't a quality starting QB in the NFL. He is what he is and that is why the Dolphins used their first round pick to draft Tannehill. The staff never had any confidence that Moore could be an effective long term starter for the team. Signing Garrard and drafting Tannehill tells me all I need to know about how this coaching staff really feels about Moore as an NFL QB.
Gerrard is a better Qb than Matt Moore so if he is healthy enough to come here and back up RT then why doesn't Arizona just sign him off the streets? So if they think Moore is worth a 4th or 5th rounder you do it before Gerrard's agent calls them...
I think you're seriously neglecting the impact of system fit on the performance of a QB and his coaches' feelings about his value. What signing Garrard and drafting Tannehill should tell you is that this coaching staff doesn't believe Matt Moore is an effective QB in this offense. What his continued presence on the team should tell you, however, is that, despite that, they view him as having some very desirable traits.
It would be nice to have more ammo to move up a few picks to get a coveted player in the draft if need be.
Matt Moore's contract is guaranteed because he was on the week 1 roster. Doesn't make sense eating that cap space for a cut player you would prefer to trade. We didn't bring him back most likely because the win differential between Tannehill and Garrard was probably deemed near even and trading Moore is the only scenario that would be pressing enough to bring back Garrard.
His trait is that he is a veteran with backup experience. Personally I would rather see Devlin take over if Tannehill were to be injured and couldn't play for a game or more. I understand you like Moore and feel he is worth something to other teams in the NFL. I suspect he will be signed as a free agent QB in the off season by another team. I just don't think another team will want to give a draft pick for him during the regular season when they know he will be available in a few months. I agree that Moore is better suited for another type of offense. He certainly showed in the preseason that he is no fit for the WCO. Next year I am sure he will be the backup QB for a team which better suits his abilities. I just don't ever see him as a full time starter again in the NFL.
I think the point of the this trade talk is that MMoore would better fit in Arizona's offense than in the WCO and given that, he's potential trade bait..however, as I said before, they Cards already have 2 MMoore's on their team now....
I bet Matt would rather play for us for the rest of his contract, stay healthy here (on the bench) and take a big deal next offseason rather than play on an eight week remaining contract for the Cards behind their awful line, risk injury, serious injury where he would get diddly squat next offseason. Maybe we owe him to keep him on the roster.
I wonder if this is just a regurgitated rumor based on the on the preseason rumor that the Cardinals and Packers were interested in Moore. Just last week we had the regurgitated rumor that we were interested in trading for D.Bowe. I suppose this is to be expected one week from the trade deadline.Speculation .
Just from the quiet I hear all around the net, I think we're trying to get moonshine drunk on swamp water.
I agree and disagree with parts of this. I agree that there would be a letdown IF something did happen to Tanny and we missed the playoffs because of that. However I also believe Matt Moore is not a fit at all for this offense that having him in reserve actually would hurt us since he showed nothing this preseason to make anyone believe otherwise. Garrard has played in this offense and probably would have won the starting gig outright had he not been hurt. IF Garrard is back healthy and in playing shape then trading Moore is absolutely THIEVERY for Miami. Whatever we get, we get. And in either scenario I laid out we can either get a mid round pick or a late mid rounder + a player. And then we get the QB back in the fold, Garrard, who is a better fit for us anyway. No brainer. Their tackles are terrible no question but so is their QB play. Kolb takes forever to make decisions and has no mental clock. Skelton has even less accuracy then Moore. Skelton is also getting used to the speed of the game still and makes a lot of throws that can only be described as awful. Agreed, this is the proper way to go about it. If Garrard is in no condition to play all bets are off. I think Moore can be ok with Arizona and get that team to the playoffs but they have to move now imo. That division is much improved with Seattle and SF playing excellent ball. Moore fits that offense because they use something similar to what we used last year. Moore is not a fit for a WCO. Agreed that Moore has value. We obviously like Devlin too much to cut him or Garrard would be here. And Moore has value as evidenced by the fact we saw a few Moore trade threads creep up at the end of Preseason. Garrard has never played in that offensive system. For him to come in and learn it when hes already coming off an injury probably isnt the best scenario for Zona, Garrard or Moore. Moore however played in Daboll's offense last year which isnt that much different then what Mike Miller is running in Arizona. Miller worked under Todd Haley who runs a scheme not all that much different than Brian Daboll did last year. If they wanted Garrard they would have made the call already.
Eh imo get used to it. We have a few things changing the league with regards to the deadline.... 1. Obviously its pushed back a few weeks now so teams are going to be more likely to make moves when they have more of an idea about how their season could end up. 2. Offenses being similar on a lot of levels makes it less of an adjustment. You still have to get used to working with a new cast but its not like 15-20 years ago when everyone was doing something different. 3. Media and fans become more vocal when teams dont make need moves so there is more outside pressure then ever. Not saying thats right or wrong, that isnt the issue here. Im saying you take a competent starting QB who is no better or worse then someone like Alex Smith and put them on Arizona and what would prevent them from being a playoff team? In that offense Moore could be that. Conversely, the media and fans realize this then why shouldnt they be upset at the team for blowing a playoff chance? And why wouldnt the team be upset at the GM for losing playoff revenue potentially over a 4th round pick to get an adequate game manager at QB who is better then injured Kevin Kolb and crumby John Skelton?
I think the current state of this team (that is a young team looking to begin a positive stretch for the next 4-5 years), dictates that if you can get a reasonable return for a back-up player that factors very little in future plans, then you don't hesitate to pull the trigger. The premise that you keep someone like Moore, when he could perhaps get you reasonable return, just in the off chance that Tannehill gets hurts, is not very smart thinking IMO. You trade Moore if you can get value back, and you deal with the injury if it happens. After all this team is borderline playoff team with the current players performing at their best and with the benefit of few injuries, inserting Moore after an injury cannot possibly improve the team, IMO.
If they want to throw a 2nd at us I'd take it in a heart beat. A 3rd that can turn into a 2nd would be worth it. Anything less is a waste of resources.
Why is it a waste of resources? We'd basically be receiving a free draft pick for a guy who wont be seeing the field in Miami this year or any year after. It's arguable that a big reason Moore is on the roster is b/c he represents potential trade commodity.
Fine. Party pooper. Will at least acknowledge the fact we need alot better than what we currently have?
Of course we do. I never said we didn't need anyone, I just said we needed a lot more BEFORE WR. It always better to have superstar talent at all positions, its just not mandatory.
I guess. My feeling is two of our top priorities in the offseason should be WR and secondary. So I wouldn't say we need alot more before WR.
You're not looking for improvement from a backup quarterback; you're looking for someone who doesn't blow the season.
I would prefer the Dolphins use their first round pick to draft the best available safety, CB, or pass rushing defensive lineman or LB. They can always use their second or third round picks in an attempt to upgrade their WR position. I think Woods and Hunter are the only first round quality receivers in the draft and they will be gone before the Dolphins draft in the middle of the first round. I feel the secondary is the main weakness of this team right now. I would rather see them draft a play maker safety to play opposite Jones or a CB to play opposite Smith. Smith and Jones are the only players now in the secondary ,I see still being on the team in the next few years. All the other players in the secondary replaceable players, IMO.
