rumor take it for waht its worth...Wayne spoke to Shotty

Yes i want marty here he knows how to coach unlike cam but i dont know about falcons gm mckay

a rumour that involves tampering seems pretty sketchy

As much as Finheaven would love to see Cam go, it's actually Mueller who's in far more trouble than Cameron.

If this rumor comes from a credible source this is HUGE news.

"lbmclean_sj wrote:

a rumour that involves tampering seems pretty sketchy

Hopefully that part of the rumor, the fatty end, can be trimmed off as bogus fabrication.

"Desides wrote:

As much as Finheaven would love to see Cam go, it's actually Mueller who's in far more trouble than Cameron.

BINGO!!! I made a very similar statement about Mueller in another thread

Yeah that's what I been waiting for. A coach who can get us into the playoffs but who cant get past the first round. Dumbest idea Ive heard of. Honestly, if Wayne goes this route he should be ridden out of town

Too bad we can't have Marty as our coach and Cameron as our OC. It worked out pretty well for the Chargers. Still, I think if Cameron can somehow muster up a win his job will be safe. Wayne H. has always been very lenient on head coaches. He even defended Saban after he jumped ship.
The one positive I get out of the Fins every year is we haven't had a dull offseason in a long time. Of course thats cursed with the fact that it's usually for all the wrong reasons.

"Desides wrote:

As much as Finheaven would love to see Cam go, it's actually Mueller who's in far more trouble than Cameron.

If that's true it screams to the incompetence of this organization. Spielman was given years despite demonstrating time and again that he was completely over his head:

* Feeley had done nothing to indicate he was worth a #2

* The worst poker player on the planet wouldn't frantically fold and give an extra #4 to the Vikings to move up one spot for Carey

* Only a rank moron could think Marty Booker and a #3 was equal compensation for a young pass rushing end just reaching his prime

* Only a similarly overmatched moron would desperately trade that #3 within days for a dime a dozen 3rd string halfback

Mueller didn't thrill me with the Trent Green move but at least I could understand it. Green had a long history of excellent YPPA prior to '06 so there was a chance he could rebound, for relatively low cost. Certainly it was more sensible than the moves for Feeley or Harrington. The later was certainly a Saban gem. No one is convincing me an ego maniac like Saban wasn't calling the shots when he was around, with minimal input from Mueller and Co.

Not tendering Welker higher was a mistake. Likewise we didn't value Donnie Jones enough. I'll never understand getting rid of Kevin Carter. But overall Mueller has proper priorities on draft day and we'd be idiotic to shove him aside unless someone terrific were available. You need home run ability at WR and in the return game and Mueller prioritized that with Ginn. In a QB you need smarts and accuracy and Beck demonstrated those traits at BYU. Our OL has been laughably unathletic for at least a half decade and Mueller got a severe upgrade in Satele, the best athlete on our line since we stumbled upon Mark Dixon. I could go on. Almost every pick made sense to me.

This roster was depleted by Spielman and Wannstedt. Saban didn't do much to change the level, up or down. No amount of inane pseudo rationalization can change those devastating basics. The players who should be in their prime and contributing heavily are AWOL, and Randy Mueller is hardly the culprit.

"Awsi Dooger wrote:

If that's true it screams to the incompetence of this organization. Spielman was given years despite demonstrating time and again that he was completely over his head:

Spielman had mainly one year, 2004, and he made so many bungled moves that he pretty much had to leave.

Not tendering Welker higher was a mistake.

Only in hindsight. Complaining about not applying the max RFA tender a #3 WR is silly.

The players who should be in their prime and contributing heavily are AWOL, and Randy Mueller is hardly the culprit.

Except Mueller completely misread the roster and the situation of this team, gave Huizenga an appraisal that clearly had no relation to reality, and as a result of his moves, we're 0-13.

Yeah, I'd say Mueller deserves every degree of heat he's experiencing internally. In contrast, Cameron deserves almost none of the heat he's experiencing externally. Oh, for an educated Dolphins fanbase...

"Awsi Dooger wrote:

* The worst poker player on the planet wouldn't frantically fold and give an extra #4 to the Vikings to move up one spot for Carey

I hated that move. I was already ticked that Philly snatched All-Pro, Shawn Andrews from us.
Isn't it strange that Speilman works for the Vikes now and produced the most impressive draft in the league (A.Peterson, S.Rice, and M.Macauley)?

"Desides wrote:

As much as Finheaven would love to see Cam go, it's actually Mueller who's in far more trouble than Cameron.

I don't see how. Mueller isn't responsible for the poor decisions on the field, the poor preparation, the player's lack of belief in the head coach, the lack of in game adjustments, the questionable play calling, the lack of emotion in the coach and the team, etc...etc...etc...

I'm not defending Mueller, I just can't see where it makes any sense at all to say Mueller is in any MORE trouble than Cameron. That makes absolutely no sense.

"Desides wrote:

Spielman had mainly one year, 2004, and he made so many bungled moves that he pretty much had to leave.

Only in hindsight. Complaining about not applying the max RFA tender a #3 WR is silly.

Except Mueller completely misread the roster and the situation of this team, gave Huizenga an appraisal that clearly had no relation to reality, and as a result of his moves, we're 0-13.

Yeah, I'd say Mueller deserves every degree of heat he's experiencing internally. In contrast, Cameron deserves almost none of the heat? he's experiencing externally. Oh, for an educated Dolphins fanbase...

It wasn't just Mueller who made personnel decisions. Both Cameron and Mueller have said that all decisions have been joint decisions and the assessment of the team was also done jointly. I'd venture to say, in fact, that it was more than just Cameron and Mueller who assessed the state of the team.

I find it hard to believe that a poster on here - one who is supposed to be VIP - would call into question another poster's intelligence because they don't agree with you about the Cam-Mueller situation. Just because some one here (myself included) believes Cameron should be fired - and you do not - does not make you smarter. It's just one opinion against another. It should be noted that the majority of fans and media think that Cameron is incompetent and should be let go. So it appears that you are in the minority on this. But that doesn't make you dumb. It just makes you of a different opinion.

You should rethink your method of trying to get your point across. Trying to put yourself above someone else by insulting another's intelligence hardly garners you or your opinion any respect.

"Desides wrote:

Except Mueller completely misread the roster and the situation of this team, gave Huizenga an appraisal that clearly had no relation to reality, and as a result of his moves, we're 0-13.

Yeah, I'd say Mueller deserves every degree of heat he's experiencing internally. In contrast, Cameron deserves almost none of the heat he's experiencing externally. Oh, for an educated Dolphins fanbase...

You're talking about an educated fan base while saying that were 0-13 as a result of Mueller's moves in one offseason?

How is that possible again that all the shorcomings we have on this roster from years and years of bad drafting and personell moves are attributed to a GM that just finished one offseason of restructuring?

As for Cameron deserving no heat for this situation..... I'm not even going there.

Seriously Desides, I think this is the strangest argument I've ever seen from you.

"SCall13 wrote:

I don't see how. Mueller isn't responsible for the poor decisions on the field, the poor preparation, the player's lack of belief in the head coach, the lack of in game adjustments, the questionable play calling, the lack of emotion in the coach and the team, etc...etc...etc...

I'm not defending Mueller, I just can't see where it makes any sense at all to say Mueller is in any MORE trouble than Cameron. That makes absolutely no sense.

I agree.

"Coral Reefer wrote:

You're talking about an educated fan base while saying that were 0-13 as a result of Mueller's moves in one offseason?

How is that possible again that all the shorcomings we have on this roster from years and years of bad drafting and personell moves are attributed to a GM that just finished one offseason of restructuring?

Did I say Mueller is solely at fault? No. This has been a long time in coming.

Here's the but.

When Mueller was interviewed in 2004 for the job he currently holds, he told Wayne that the team needed to be blown up. Not "the offense needs to be blown up," but the entire team needed to be blown up and rebuilt from scratch.

Fast-forward to the 2007 offseason. Mueller is the GM. He blows up the offense, giving Cameron a fresh start on that side to implement his offense. In contrast to what he said in 2004, he leaves the defense pretty much alone, excepting the players who departed via free agency. He brings in warm bodies to replace the defensive line rotation that left, and signs Joey Porter. Then he tells Wayne that the team can make the playoffs depending on how the offense comes along.

Then, Mueller comes out during the middle of this disaster of a season and says he had no idea the defense was going to collapse the way it did.

What?

Am I the only one who sees the utter contrast here? Fine, the defense saw a makeover under Saban, but the three most critical players on that side of the ball--Taylor, Thomas, Bell--were there on that 2004 team that Mueller said needed to be blown up. But Nick Saban makes a group of warm bodies with two past-their-prime stars look good, and Mueller can't tell the difference?

Randy Mueller is very much responsible for the current state of the team simply because of his schizophrenic approach to the roster and his lack of foresight regarding the defense. Is it his fault that Wannspiel wasted something like 60+ draft picks? No. But it's his fault for misreading and misrepresenting the team's situation to Wayne Huizenga.

Now, if Mueller had told Wayne that he expected a regression on defense due to the new personnel and age of the remaining players, then he'd be safer. Oh, and let's not forget that Mueller traded away Chris Chambers at a time when the guy had caught fire. That trade is very likely the difference between 0-13 and, say, 2-11.

Sorry, but when a general manager so completely fails in his assessment of his team and his roster, there's little recourse but to fire the guy. And it's not like one can say that this is his first year. It isn't. It's his first year as a true GM, but he's been here since 2005. Cameron walked into this mess: Mueller was already here.

"Desides wrote:

Did I say Mueller is solely at fault? No. This has been a long time in coming.

Here's the but.

When Mueller was interviewed in 2004 for the job he currently holds, he told Wayne that the team needed to be blown up. Not "the offense needs to be blown up," but the entire team needed to be blown up and rebuilt from scratch.

Fast-forward to the 2007 offseason. Mueller is the GM. He blows up the offense, giving Cameron a fresh start on that side to implement his offense. In contrast to what he said in 2004, he leaves the defense pretty much alone, excepting the players who departed via free agency. He brings in warm bodies to replace the defensive line rotation that left, and signs Joey Porter. Then he tells Wayne that the team can make the playoffs depending on how the offense comes along.

Then, Mueller comes out during the middle of this disaster of a season and says he had no idea the defense was going to collapse the way it did.

What?

Am I the only one who sees the utter contrast here? Fine, the defense saw a makeover under Saban, but the three most critical players on that side of the ball--Taylor, Thomas, Bell--were there on that 2004 team that Mueller said needed to be blown up. But Nick Saban makes a group of warm bodies with two past-their-prime stars look good, and Mueller can't tell the difference?

Randy Mueller is very much responsible for the current state of the team simply because of his schizophrenic approach to the roster and his lack of foresight regarding the defense. Is it his fault that Wannspiel wasted something like 60+ draft picks? No. But it's his fault for misreading and misrepresenting the team's situation to Wayne Huizenga.

Now, if Mueller had told Wayne that he expected a regression on defense due to the new personnel and age of the remaining players, then he'd be safer. Oh, and let's not forget that Mueller traded away Chris Chambers at a time when the guy had caught fire. That trade is very likely the difference between 0-13 and, say, 2-11.

Sorry, but when a general manager so completely fails in his assessment of his team and his roster, there's little recourse but to fire the guy. And it's not like one can say that this is his first year. It isn't. It's his first year as a true GM, but he's been here since 2005. Cameron walked into this mess: Mueller was already here.

There is no doubt that anyone in their right minds should have paid attention to the fact that our defense was getting older and we needed an injection of youth and speed. No question Mueller failed here. But so did Saban - who made the decisions on draft day. Saban did draft some defensive guys in effort to help our aging defense. Unfortunately these players have turned out to be OKAY at best. So you can't pin it all on Mueller in that regard either, seeing that Mueller had no say in the final decision on who to draft - other than stating his opinion. But no matter what Mueller suggested, it was Saban who made the call.

I'm not saying Mueller shouldn't be fired. But to place the blame for this team's horrendous play solely in his lap is wrong. Cameron is responsible for the preparation of this team. He's responsible for game planning. He's responsible for in game decisions. He has failed miserably at every aspect of being a head coach. This team's regression to this state didn't happen just because of Mueller. How can a team (specifically defense) go from ranked in the top 5 one season and be so pathetic the very next season without coaching having a HUGE part in it? Yes, Capers is the DC, but he has to fit what he's doing into CAMERON'S game plan. He has to ultimately follow under the rules of the head coach. Capers has proved in the past that he is a very good defensive coordinator. Though a bad head coach, Capers has never failed to field a very good defense as a coordinator. So you have to assume Cameron's concepts have interfered, at least partially, to the sharp downfall of the defense.

And where is this play calling genius of Cameron? Even with sub-par talent, if Cameron was such the offensive genius that he's been credited for being, he'd find some creative ways to make this offense at least somewhat legitimate. But instead, he looks more lost than Chris Foerster. And his ridiculous decisions have been embarrassing. In fact, I've never seen anything like it over the course of a season from any coach. His clock management his terrible. And his decisions in some situations may have cost the Dolphins two wins.

Nothing about what Cameron has done this year could possibly make any fan - even the most optimistic one - think that there is light at the end of the tunnel with Cameron at the helm. I shudder at the thought of Cameron being retained after this fiasco.

Sure, fire Mueller. He has done nothing to help the Dolphins. But please, show Cameron the door too.

"SCall13 wrote:

Yes, Capers is the DC, but he has to fit what he's doing into CAMERON'S game plan. He has to ultimately follow under the rules of the head coach. Capers has proved in the past that he is a very good defensive coordinator. Though a bad head coach, Capers has never failed to field a very good defense as a coordinator. So you have to assume Cameron's concepts have interfered, at least partially, to the sharp downfall of the defense.

You've got this backwards. Cameron didn't touch the defense early in the season. It was only until later, as the defense simply showed no signs of turning around, that Cameron got involved... and then the defense only gave up 12 points a game up until the Jets game, when the veterans gave up because they don't like the idea that this team won't contend for anything until after they're retired.

His clock management his terrible. And his decisions in some situations may have cost the Dolphins two wins.

I would argue that the inability of the defense to get off the field on third down, and their general inability to prevent touchdowns, is far more responsible for this team losing than Cameron's decision to (not) take a timeout.

Nothing about what Cameron has done this year could possibly make any fan - even the most optimistic one - think that there is light at the end of the tunnel with Cameron at the helm. I shudder at the thought of Cameron being retained after this fiasco.

Really? He gives me hope. His demeanor in the face of the bottom falling out from underneath this team has spoken volumes about his ability to rationally process the situation, he has shown an ability to admit and correct mistakes, and I can't see anything he's done that has directly led to a loss. Quite the contrary: I think the reason we've lost six games by a field goal, as opposed to six blowouts, has been due to his coaching. But there's only so much you can do with a very bad team.

Keep Cameron. He has a good idea of what he wants to do and the balls to stick with it in the face of overwhelming odds. Contrast him with Bobby Petrino, who faced a tumultuous locker room long before Jason Taylor decided his middle name was Cancer, and has 3 more wins than Cameron does. Petrino jumped ship: Cameron hasn't. That speaks volumes to me.

it really seems to me the focus of all this is in the wrong area of the organization. Mueller was was elevated to the status he should have been after Saban quit. Capers was retained by the same powers, then Cam was hired for Mueller. seems like a patchwork process to me.

Huizenga is a name-whore.

"DOLPHAN1 wrote:

it really seems to me the focus of all this is in the wrong area of the organization. Mueller was was elevated to the status he should have been after Saban quit. Capers was retained by the same powers, then Cam was hired for Mueller. seems like a patchwork process to me.

Huizenga is a name-whore.

RFLMAO!!

That this was a patchwork coaching staff I 100% agree. But if everyone sees eye-to-eye I don't see a problem. Now if they are derelict in their duties and don't see that they lack the personnel to execute their schemes, that's another problem, and a huge one.

"Desides wrote:

Randy Mueller is very much responsible for the current state of the team simply because of his schizophrenic approach to the roster and his lack of foresight regarding the defense

I'm afraid that you're dealing in hindsight here. It might be easy to evaluate a decision maker by the consequences of his decisions but it's much more to the point to evaluate him based on how sensible his decision was at the time he actually made it. So the real question is: Could Mueller have foreseen that the defense would collaps in the way it did? I'm not sure that he could have, at least not to that extend and not back in March. The unit returned 10 starters, added Joey Porter and carried the reigning DPotY. How was Mueller supposed to foresee that it would fall from a top 10 defense to one of the worst in the league in merely one offseason? The argument "he gets paid for it, so it's his responsibiliy" is bereft of substance in so far as it ignores the fact that probably no evaluator in the world would have foreseen that sorry development. I certainly know of none who hinted that the Dolphins defense would undergo a historical decline.

That of course leaves the question why Mueller called for a dismanteling first and then postponed it when he got in charge. But again I ask: What was he supposed to do? It isn't like they had high draftpicks to spare (not if they wanted to get the offense going which seemed like the much bigger need back in March and April) or like there were a lot of great FAs to be signed. And it isn't like Mueller inherited the salary cap situation to make moves other than cutting aging backups. In March, the sensible thing to do was to get the offense going and stick with your veteran defense for one or possibly two more years until you fixed the QB, WR and O-Line issues.

Sure, Mueller could have traded JT back then amidst a storm of violent heat. Given the sorry state of our defense - and the fact that it would be even sorrier with JT gone - that would have certainly cost his head. The sad truth is that this team had way too many holes to fix in one or even two offseasons. It's like a construction site: You don't build everywhere at once. You complete the tasks one by one.

Same here.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Yeah that's what I been waiting for. A coach who can get us into the playoffs but who cant get past the first round. Dumbest idea Ive heard of. Honestly, if Wayne goes this route he should be ridden out of town

What would you rather have, early playoff elimination IN PLAYOFFS or mathematical playoff elimination by week 7?

:confused2:

Desides wrote:

You've got this backwards. Cameron didn't touch the defense early in the season. It was only until later, as the defense simply showed no signs of turning around, that Cameron got involved... and then the defense only gave up 12 points a game up until the Jets game, when the veterans gave up because they don't like the idea that this team won't contend for anything until after they're retired.

12 pts a game is a bit of a schuck Mr. Desides, we had the game in london and the rice paddy game in that small run....

Which also begs the question vis a vis Mueller and the Defense:

If the priority was to rebuild the offense, what could Muel had done differently to try and strengthen the defense?

We only have so many moves that we can make in one offseason, there are only so many players available, and the ones we lost with the exception of Carter from the "D" are not doing very much at all.

That lack of production in new addresses would seem to point to the injuries playing a larger role then the personal losses have for our once good defense.