And so goes the story of his career...:pity:

Our OL when healthy is one of the best in the league IMO.

 

Very true.:up:

 

Jake Grove in the past 3 seasons has missed more games than
the whole Jet offensive line has during the same period

Jake Grove...17 games missed in 3 seasons

D'brickshaw...0 games missed in 3 seasons
Mangold........0 games missed in 3 seasons
Faneca..........0 games missed in 3 seasons
Moore...........0 games missed in 3 seasons
Woody..........3 games missed in 3 seasons

Grove...................... 17
Jets entire offensive line 3

Grove has played 1 full season out of 6
and has missed 31 games which is injury prone

There are centers that are just as good as Grove who don't miss 5-6 games a season...Hopefully he gets his act together
i

 

Very well said, but is that a character issue? training issue? is he just an unhealthy guy...
I mean he sprained his ankle, unless they aint telling us something that usually will not keep you out for 6 games if you take care of it right

 

History is history and 31 games missed in 6 seasons is a consistent problem.

 

Very true, but I'm willing to give him 1 more year with our training and medical staff before I completely write him off, sometimes it is the training staff, and this happened in basketball with the Phoenix suns revitalizing Grant Hill and Shaq, so if this year he doesn't come out on top, then I guess we really have to see what else we can do

Justin Smiley is also a huge asterisk, but I love him as our Guard, when he is in there he is top 5 in the league

 

Not to discount Grove's ability, but I think the average is a little skewed for a couple of reasons. First, we didn't have Ronnie for those games. Having both Ronnie and Ricky is a definite boost to the running game. Second, we didn't have Ferguson or Crowder for many of those games either. That meant our already declining defense, particularly our run defense, was very poor. This caused us to go more to the pass than the run, which brought down our running game/average. All that said, I think he's a better center than Berger and Garner, but I wouldn't necessarily say 44-yds/game better.

 

I think of equal importance is that we have an effective 2nd stringer in Joe Berger. He's shown he can step in and we barely miss a beat. To me that says a lot. There may be other Centers who are as good as Grove and don't miss as many games......but they aren't available as far as I know.
So for now I'm fine with Grove starting and knowing Berger can fill in as needed.

 

Week 8 Crowder was out and we held the Jets to 127 yards or 45 yards under the #1 rushing team in the NFL'S average...NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

Week 9 Both Crowder and Ferguson were both out
against New England and we held them to 109 yards rushing or 11 yards under average for the 12 th best rushing team in the NFL.STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

WEEK 12 Ferguson out against Buffalo we allowed 129 yards rushing or 13 yards above what Buffalo averages
13 yards does not translate to A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

Week 13 Ferguson out against the Pats we allowed
96 yards or 24 yards under the Pats average STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

Week 14 Ferguson still out against Jacks we allowed 95 yards rushing or 32 yards less than Jacks average of 126.8 STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

Week 15 Ferguson out against Tenn the second best rushing team in the NFL we allowed 128 yards rushing or 34 yards less than Tenn average of 162 yards per game STILL NOT A POOR DEFENSE AGAINST THE RUN AS YOU MENTIONED

Week 16 Ferguson out we allowed 126 yards rushing
against Texas or 24 yards above texas's average yards rushing per game average...Still not what I would call VERY POOR RUN DEFENSE

Week 17 Ferguson and Crowder out against Pitts we allowed 202 yards or 90 yards above average yards rushing per game for Pitts
This game was bad but I believe it was more about our defense giving up as a whole than just a poor run defense

We held the #1 rushing team in football to 45 yards under there average

We held the #2 rushing team in football to 34 yards under there average

We held the #10 rushing team in football to 32 yards under there average

We held the #12 rushing team in football to 24 yards under there average

One bad game against Pittsburgh when both Crowder and Ferguson were out and our season was done


No way this is a poor team against the run

 

as the Orca-5 go, so goes the season. Grove is a Beast.

 

We started the season #1 against the run. We finished the season #18. And that's even with our pass defense falling to #24. But, to me, it's not so much how much you held a team under their average anyway. It's how well you do against them in total yardage. We didn't do that well, or not near well enough, and it got progressively worse as the season went on.

But, that's not really my major point anyway. The point is that as the season went on (i.e., when Grove was injured) our defense began giving up too many points to where it forced us to abandon the running game much earlier than we would have liked. And because of this, our total running yardage per game suffered. And I'd say that this would be true regardless of whether Grove or Berger was at center.

 

As much as I like our offensive line the Jets
have ran for 632 more yards than us the past 2 seasons and there players don't get injured like ours.

Grove,Smiley,and Thomas scare me!

 

Doesn't this usually happen when a team falls behind early in a game...they give up on the run and try to catch up through the pass...no revelation here

and i STILL DISAGREE on saying that we had a POOR run defense

 

You're absolutely right. There's no revelation here. It actually is quite simple. Now, consider that in context to the original post.

The original post had Rotoworld claiming that the rush offense (in terms of yds/game) was much better under Grove. While this is a true statement, my point was that this had much to do with how our defense was playing (along with having both Ronnie and Ricky as I also pointed out). So, I wouldn't pin the difference of 44-yd/game solely on the presence (or absence) of Grove.

 

OK. So, we are in good shape at NT and ILB. This is a relief to me.

 

I could care less about roto and anything else anyone has to say.

I SAW the difference when Grove was in there. Anyone who did not, did not watch the games. JMO

 

That's true. I think Grove is a better center. No question in my mind. Not sure if he's 44-yd/game better than Berger though as that's quite a difference.

 

Hell, if we didn't get injured, there would be no discussion.

Grove, Smiley, and Thomas scare me, as well as every DL in the game. Good point, although not intended. :)

 

The Jet OL is an anomaly to say the least. To have an OL intact for an entire season is pretty special, much less 35 straight games. And they're outstanding to boot. I wouldn't use them as a barometer as much as the pinnacle.

I don't think it's a question of "getting his act together". I don't know if you meant it this way, but to me that suggests he doesn't take care of his body. I haven't heard anything like that in the past. And I would hope this regime wouldn't knowingly sign a player with that type of professionalism (or lack thereof).

Some guys are just injury prone. Some are unlucky. Some guys bodies just can't do it.

As the stats have bore out the last few years, there aren't many centers as good as Grove. He is in the elite class. The problem is those others typically aren't available.

 

No need to ask Tim anything, when a player misses
31 games in 6 seasons I would say it speaks volumes on it's own

 

That was slick. :lol:

I'd say he's injury prone, absolutely.

But I wouldn't say he's a slacker. I think he's the same as Bob Sanders. Guys whose bodies just aren't predisposed to 16 NFL games.

On the other end you have Marvin Harrison. Guy made no secret that he ran on junk food and sweets, yet never missed time until his knees finally gave out.

 

When he is healthy he is one of the best
but....

How can a guy who is 6'4 and 300lbs+
be so delicate???

Hopefully he can play a full season with Smiley and put to rest the injury prone moniker

 

Isn't this a re-thread? I think in the later part of last year someone pointed this out with Grove.

No doubt, Grove is really one heckuva center*.

*when healthy

 

I don't know that calling Grove delicate would be fair or accurate. He's getting hammered by other 300+ lb men. Sometimes more than one at a time.

 

:lol: perhaps.

 

The reason our yards per game rushing when Grove was out were so much lower is because Ronnie Brown also missed those games.

 

Your whole line competes better if it is consistant. You will never have that which you need to fulfill your potental with players that can not be there when you need them. I'm not saying that Grove and Smiley aren't great players but we have spent alot of money on the two of them and imvho we are NOT getting our money's worth out of them. To see the difference between Grove and no Grove in yardage is even more telling that we are getting a bad deal. If the same difference was say between Long's side and Carey's side in the run game everyone here would be calling for Carey's head on a platter or Long a bust if it were his side!

Yet Grove and Smiley get a pass, what to me is even worse is that the FO gets the same pass. When Parcells' first remark was, as he walked in the door, the injury report is way to thick and that will stop! So much for those words.

Surely there is a center and a guard that can do the job we need done (as in a team effort) out there in the world somewhere. I would also hope that there is something written in their (Grove/Smiley) contracts which detracts from their pay if they miss games, knowing from the getgo that these two had/have injury issues.

 

conditioning is the answer. injuries happen in the NFL. no question he is an elite center

 

Not really surprising. When healthy, Grove is arguably a top 3 center. Problem is he's never healthy.

 

problem is he was pushed to return before he healed properly while playing w/ a third rate offensive Raider line i.e. too much, too soon