No every qb has strengths and weaknesses Brady Mr clutch had to have gadget plays in his 1st yr rarely threw deep and couldn't audible till his 3rd yr starting. Into his own called plays. He was not the best deep ball thrower either still isn't, but deep ball doesn't prhibit elite status. RT may not be hid strength but can complete enough to make it a weapon and one defenses need to defend, opening up the slants the little hitched, the seem passes. Noone wants to talk about how RT made a nice pass that allowed Hartline to not break stride and make people miss for that td. Again expectations. Elite qbs became elite they don't enter elite. RT IMO has shown elite qualities, but does need to improve to get there. Whether he does, he controls that not fans
I don't understand the Henne comparison. Truly I don't. I also don't understand the heavy skepticism and questioning his future potential. He has given you absolutely no reason to think he cannot improve and become a QB you can keep for a decade. He has issues, he has things to improve, he has kinks to iron our; but I wonder people are surprised at this. What were you expecting? He is still a vastly inexperienced QB. He is still developing, as it is. He is still in the process of his career where he is discovering his deficiencies and finding ways to overcome them. He has not reached the point where he knows his limitations and is staying away from them, and knows his strength and is exploiting them. He is still discovering his talents and attempting to overcome his shortcomings. Of the young promising QBs, he is the one being placed in the worse situation, while actually being the worse equipped to deal with them. The fact he is not crumbling but finding ways to succeed, should be an incredibly encouraging aspects for the fans. I've said this on another thread, and I'll repeat it again: Tannehill's circumstances on this team would see many a good veteran QB struggle.
Well, it looks like multiple people including yourself whiffed as per the reason I brought up Henne. He was brought up as a comparison, the relevance being that he was a Dolphins QB that never put it all together. Henne certainly had his moments where he looked like he could become a " very good" QB maybe more than that. He didn't- the question is, will Tannehill make that leap and become as good a QB as you and others think? Tannehill has had his moments, but statistical improvement doesn't mask or negate the flaws that he is showing. Improving? Yes, but I still have my doubts, and I think that those doubts are reasonable and well founded. That being said, I like Tannehill more than I liked Henne when he was down here, but that's a pretty low bar if your'e trying to judge if RT will become an elite QB imo. The issue at hand as per Tannehill and bringing up Henne is, will Tannehill make that leap to becoming a franchise QB that Henne never did. Of that I have my doubts, there are too many unresolved, lingering issues as previously listed. That's how I see it- you disagree and that's fine, and conversely I have no idea how you can go about labeling Tannehill as an elite QB outside of the pocket, using his legs. None whatsoever. We'll see what happens, I hope that RT becomes a great QB. It certainly will help to get him a better OL and a consistent running game. Tannehill is certainly doing his part and then some to power this offense, but the problem is that it's just not a very good offense.
The reason for bringing up Henne is simple: Henne was recently a young Dolphins QB who never put it all together. Tannehill is our young QB and the question is not if he's better than Henne- he is- but whether or not he will, unlike Henne, make the leap to becoming a great QB, really put it all together. We'll see what happens. I like Tannehill, I think that he is a good young NFL QB who can become a very good NFL QB- what I don't see in his future is him becoming what would be called a great, elite or franchise QB. There are just too many flaws and concerns at this point.
But...heres my question to you jim. What second year QB out there would not fit in this: He didn't- the question is, will Tannehill make that leap and become as good a QB as you and others think? Tannehill has had his moments, but statistical improvement doesn't mask or negate the flaws that he is showing. Improving? Yes, but I still have my doubts, and I think that those doubts are reasonable and well founded. Its not whether its reasonable to have these doubts, its reasonable to have these doubts at this time.
I would much rather have Luck or Wilson than Tannehill. I like Tannehill, I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. What is it, God forbid that someone not think that he might not be the next great Dolphins QB despite the flaws that he is showing? And I'm well aware that he is just a 2nd year QB. The issue as I see it is whether or not he will become a great QB, plain and simple. And for some reason that seems to ruffle feathers, as if I were challenging someone's religious beliefs. As they say online, shake my head. Imo there is way too much sensitivity as per criticism of Tannehill, especially after he played well. Take a look back a few weeks, some posters were calling for Tannehill's head. Was I ever one of those posters? No. I've had my criticisms bit I've never given up on him, not even close. Tannehill's issues, as I see them, are pretty obvious. And having doubts towards the end of his second year I find to be reasonable. As to the issue I find on this board of "How dare you question Ryan Tannehill!"- whatever.
Well, here is the difference, Henne did have his moments, but what was happening was a strong running game propped him up and more importantly, they'd roll him out of the pocket and give him a half field read He was really good at that, Defenses caught up, back into the pocket he went and became Captain Checkdown who simply would not and could not throw a ball into the endzone in the redzone He'd also make horrible throws for int's And yes, I do think Tannehill is an upper echelon Qb outside of the pocket not simply b/c of his athleticism, but b/c he has the arm strength to throw across the field to the other side of the Defense, negating the defenses reaction of cutting down the field on rollouts Henne had the arm, but lacked the balls to make that throw, most Qb's won't make that throw, add in he does have the athleticism to force defenders into play run or play the pass in that situation and I'm not simply talking to the air. What is more troubling to me is not the criticisms of Tannehill, it is the sort of cottage industry amongst dolphins fans that simply must find something wrong with players..it's like a compulsion Wallace scores a nice 30 yd Td filled with RAC and YAC..what is said? "Oh he should have broken up that wounded duck int!" Hartline scores a Td on a slant with RAC and YAC What is said? Nothing, the whole "Hartline does not score Td's!" "Hartline does not break tackles!" stuff goes away To me, we are in a playoff hunt, and what are some fans doing? Why complaining about Tannehill's deep ball woes of course, when simply objectively, he has massively improved from 2012.
Nobody is making a fuss about it. But, you have layed out your criticisms of Ryan Tannehill, objectively. I think your getting your feathers ruffled because we arent as in agreement with you. What I would ask is, if you look at Luck and Russel Wilson through the same glasses, there are the same kinds of concerns. Watching the game last night, I saw accuracy issues deep for Russel Wilson. If you look at Andrew Lucks game, he certainly has shown some issues along the way. But, each have shown potential to be elite. They have made plays that stand out. And thats what you seem to rely on. What I counter with, is so has Ryan Tannehill. So...I believe its fair to look at the pros and cons of all of them.
Apparently you haven't watched Luck much. If you have issues with Ryan's accuracy, you should watch Andrew Luck some more. He has plenty of accuracy issues himself, and since Reggie Wayne went down, he has looked very average.
Yeah well, based on everything you're saying you'd of not wanted Drew Brees early in his career either. There are more things are play here causing some of Tannehills "flaws" as you call them. You must take into account he has no running threat. As a defense they are on their heels and making Tannehill pass to beat them, they know its coming, and hes still putting up some of the best numbers for a Dolphins QB since the Clinton administration. What flaws do you see that will not make him a great or franchise qb?
Nobody is making a fuss about it and my feathers are getting ruffled? Read the posts again after my first post in the thread. It's as if some think that I want Tannehill to fail- hardly. I have concerns and doubts and I think that they're justified, bottom line. This is a good article imo from Alen 1 outlining some of the concerns as per Tannehill. There are issues there, and more- Tannehill had a good game against the Jets, but it's not like his issues have disappeared. Again, I like Tannehill, but imo he lags behind Luck and Wilson in terms of potential to be elite. http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/...-still-struggling-in-the-middle-of-the-field/
The ability to be a true clutch QB Deep ball accuracy and efficiency Timing Anticipation Not using his mobility to generate enough running plays or effectively escape pressure- and yes, the OL blows this year, that's a given. Pocket Presence Accuracy
He's timing on some throws is just not good, he is streaky and can throw flyers, at times locks onto his #1 option, not great at checking down, poor instincts as a runner I also think he needs to build up his physical strength sometimes he goes down waaay to easily
All spot on- but you like him as a QB and I do, too. The point is, again, whether or not Tannehill can become elite. That's very much in question imo, he has to prove that he can overcome these flaws.
You guys are arguing against a strawman when arguing with jim1. He's not saying Tanny hasn't improved, he's saying there are still a lot of issues he sees when projecting Tannehill to be a Great QB, and he'd like to see these resolved or improved. He's not even given up on Tanny (in response to the Brees post above). I don't know how much more clear he can say it yet you guys keep missing it. I don't see elite yet either, but that's ok. He's still got another season before I throw in the towel on elite/great. Some QBs flash potential and then never take the next step. Jay Cutler say hello. He still has the same issues as when he started. And then some absolutely explode in years 3-4. Right now, Tanny is a good QB that has the tools to take the next step. We are waiting to see if he does.
Literally everything you posted is something that can be worked on. This is not some 4 year QB starter from Standford playing in a pro system. This is a kid who had 19 starts at qb in college. NINETEEN! Henne started all 4 years at Michigan, Luck started al 4 years, Wilson started at NC State and Wisconsin.......Give him time to grow. To flat out say you don't see him as a franchise qb or great qb is complete hypotheticals. Where as the "bad people downing you for disagreeing" (don't know where those people are btw) Are just saying "wait and see".....I don't see anyone saying he WILL be a great qb, or he WILL be a franchise qb. We are just saying he CAN be. You're saying he WON'T be. Theres the difference.
I've seen him make those same two touch passes, I'll stand by what I said, it's just not a comfortable throw for him with his throwing mechanics..and I mean the feathering type, not really the seam pass down the middle..to me that's a throw he can make consistently..
I do not question your preference of one over the other. The point? You have doubts about Tannehill because of his issues, yet the same issues are there for another QB who you'd "much rather" have. That's ironic. Tannehill's numbers are eerily similar to Luck's, and under clear worse circumstances.
Of course he deserves that, he's shown great toughness and resiliency, and he's improving, and like Cowher mentioned, the dude basically has been playing real Qb for three years..
To me I see struggles with horizontal routes. I could be wrong as I don't study it but just going off what I see in games. WR streaking side to side. Throw in someone really fast like Wallace and the passes to me, seem behind a little more often than I'd like.
He was right on the money hitting Clay in stride across the middle Sunday, and has hit Hartline on more than one occassion. Honestly I wish they'd run more of those routes for Wallace (See: Early in the game Sunday a slant to Wallace for a 21 yard gain) I havent sat back and thought he was ever inaccurate consistently with those throws, he may miss a few, but hes human. It's nothing aggrivating imo.
I think there's a lot of aspects to this. For instance, I think he threw plenty of these types of passes in good locations to Gibson. With Wallace, their lack of rapport and Wallace's own lack of finesse in route running has some factor into this. Throwing slant passes sometimes it is better to throw a little behind the runner than to lead him. If your throwing a slant with a defense in zone coverage, if you lead your receiver crossing between two zones, you are effectively leading him into the zone of the second defender, whereas a pass behind is still sitting inside the gap in the zones. I've seen plenty of these passes where Tannehill was expecting his receiver to squat in the zone, and the receiver continued running instead. All this revolves around his lack of experience. I've seen no indication he cannot work on this and get better overtime.
OK...fine. But show me where he lags behind them? Is it because..thats just how you feel? Youve pointed out the flaws with RTs game. What are the flaws in RW or AL's game, and why are they any less of a measure to what potential they have?
Maybe you need to re-read the posts in question and look up the definition of a hypothetical. Show me once where I said that Tannehill definitely will not become a franchise QB. What I said is that my guess is that Tannehill will never become a truly elite QB along the lines of Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers. That he could become the equal or better of Joe Flacco. All of that seems completely reasonable, at least to me. You not only whiffed on what I was saying, you misrepresented it as well. The rest of your post is a mystery, including the first sentence- of course all of Tannehill's issues can be worked on, that's just stating the obvious, needlessly. The question is whether or not they will be resolved.
Personally, after watching Russel Wilson last night an entire game for once, I dont think he is behind him. In fact, if you were to put Ryan Tannehill on Seattles team, I think he may even be further along then where Wilson is. Wilson is going a GREAT job of running the spread option. He has a heck of a running game to rely on with Marshawn Lynch. But I didnt see RW do anything last night at all, that I dont see RT doing. And I dont think Wilson can make all of the same throws that Tannehill can. Same with Luck. The biggest thing, is I think all three of them are going to be elite level QB's. They all have tremendous qualities both physically, and from a work ethic view point, and all are players you would want to build your team around.
Here is where you run off the rails a bit Jim1 (imo) He has flaws, he is succeeding even with them AND no running game to bail him out and recently mediocre, offensive line play. That is so difficult to ask a Vet Qb to do, let alone a 2nd yr player, some games he is even our leading rusher, that is a bit like spinning plates on sticks and dancing at the same time. And yet, he has clearly improved on his rookie season performance and we are in the playoff hunt even now. To me, that is amazing.
I agree with a lot of that that except for the first and last sentences. I like Tannehill as a QB, I don't think that I can be much clearer about it. My hesitation is as to whether or not he can correct what I see as some significant flaws- he's only in his second year and he is improving, but I'm just not convinced that he'll correct them to the point of becoming an elite QB. I don't see that point of view as going off the rails, at all.
That's a valid point. My issue is that I haven't see anything that would suggest he can be great or a franchise QB. He hasn't led us to the playoffs (that could change this year). Luck, RGII, Wilson, et all He hasn't had monstrous statistical numbers (at the end of the year, we can see). Newton, RGII, Wilson The offense is overpowering. Actually, it's one of the worst in the league when it comes to scoring points. He doesn't perform well on 3rd downs, a money maker. It's really just the compilation of the two years he's played. Has he improved? Yes. That's obvious. Do I expect more? Yes. That's fair to question if I expect too much. However, this is a team that should be in the playoffs. If they're not, it's a failure by all. And the throws I've seen from Tannehill this year have allowed Miami to leave too many points on the field for my liking. I've seen that from past QB's all too much.
My opinion is that he won't become an elite, franchise QB. That's a far cry from saying that he definitively won't become a franchise QB. For me to say that I don't see it in his future is quite a difference from the words you're putting in my mouth, not to mention the other ways that I approached the subject, which you of course didn't quote me on. Your words: "I don't see anyone saying he WILL be a great qb, or he WILL be a franchise qb. We are just saying he CAN be. You're saying he WON'T be." Again, between that and the multiple other times that I touched on the subject, I made it clear that my guess is that he won't become a franchise QB. Try reading more carefully next time, figuring out context and not misrepresenting what I'm saying.
Its no one's job to properly infer what you mean. You very clearly said he won't become elite. If you didn't mean it, then there's steps YOU can take to clarify.
Ok so you say: "Show me once where I said that Tannehill definitely will not become a franchise QB." I show you where you say you don't see him ever in the future becomming great or a franchise qb. Then you say I am putting words in your mouth, and all you can do is 3rd grade debate "read better next time nananana-booboo" I can only go bye what I am reading. What I read is you, jim1, saying Tannehill "in your opinion" which is still saying it....will not be great or a franchise qb based on flaws you see. You mentioned the flaws, they are all fixable given his specific situation (bad oline, limited experience, limited weapons his rookie year etc)....you then give no further reasoning why he won't be great. And you continue to take Luck over him, eventhough other posters point out they have similar numbers through the current line of their careers. You don't take into account Luck had Reggie Wayne in his prime, you don't mention Tannehill had Bess and Hartline as his top receivers his rookie year, you don't take into account his oline is garbage, you don't take into account hes our only offense yet hes still putting up good numbers, you don't take into account at least 3 of his interceptions are via hailmary. You just say his "flaws" won't make him great (in your opinion). I am asking for facts. What do you consider "great" or "franchise" ? Eli Manning? Andrew Luck? Aaron Rodgers? some of those guys started right away, some had experience in college, some sat the bench in the begining of their careers. What do you consider a great qb in this league, and why can't Tannehill be that? Again, I am not saying he will be, I think he can be, he hasnt reached that moment yet. But when you say you don't see it in the future, thats more cut and dry than the "up-in-the-air opinion" you're making it out to be.
We are supposed to read minds and take words on a message board post, and perceve them exactly how the writer intended, whether he came across correctly or not while writting them. Thats very obviously to jim1, OUR job. Not his.
Well, you've been added to the list of those who need to improve their reading comprehension. If I say that I don't see something happening, that means that my guess is that it won't happen- far cry from saying directly that something definitely will not happen. Try clearly reading the rest of my posts as well, the context is clear.
I don't think Tannehill has shown enough negative or positive to reach any conclusion about whether he will or won't become a franchise QB. I think he has shown enough to prove he can he be a starter who you can win with (I mean win enough to make the playoffs, though maybe not consistently) with the right pieces around him, but meeting that threshold can only keep you around for so long. I hope Tannehill continues to grow and put together a year next year that improves as much on 2013 as this season has on 2012. If he manages to do that, then I'll be sold, whereas now I am just cautiously optimistic. As to how he finishes the year, based on his current numbers and recent play I have my fingers crossed for 23-25 TDs and 15-17 INTs (anywhere in there for both categories would leave me feeling pretty good)
"I think that he is a good and might be a very good QB. But if I'm reading this right we're talking about whether or not he will turn into a FRANCHISE QB." "Using Rogers as a template, do I think that Tannehill will ever become an Aaron Rogers type QB, on that level? No." "He's closer to Chad Henne than Aaron Rodgers, that's how I see it. But I remain hopeful that he'll improve and I can see him being as good or better than Joe Flacco- granted I'm not a big Flacco fan, but he did lead his team to a Super Bowl victory. Tannehill will be a solid QB imo, but I just don't see in him a "sky's the limit" scenario." "Tannehill is a good QB, but imo he's far from a great QB. Will he be great? Who knows, but I think that his ceiling is "very good", not "great". I hope that he proves me wrong." "The issue at hand as per Tannehill and bringing up Henne is, will Tannehill make that leap to becoming a franchise QB that Henne never did. Of that I have my doubts, there are too many unresolved, lingering issues as previously listed." "We'll see what happens. I like Tannehill, I think that he is a good young NFL QB who can become a very good NFL QB- what I don't see in his future is him becoming what would be called a great, elite or franchise QB. There are just too many flaws and concerns at this point." "I like Tannehill, I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. What is it, God forbid that someone think that he might not be the next great Dolphins QB despite the flaws that he is showing? And I'm well aware that he is just a 2nd year QB." "I have concerns and doubts and I think that they're justified, bottom line." "All spot on- but you like him as a QB and I do, too. The point is, again, whether or not Tannehill can become elite. That's very much in question imo, he has to prove that he can overcome these flaws." "I agree with a lot of that that except for the first and last sentences. I like Tannehill as a QB, I don't think that I can be much clearer about it. My hesitation is as to whether or not he can correct what I see as some significant flaws- he's only in his second year and he is improving, but I'm just not convinced that he'll correct them to the point of becoming an elite QB. I don't see that point of view as going off the rails, at all." All quotes from me on this thread, and they consistently indicate that I have doubts as to Tannehill becoming an elite QB- that's a far cry from saying that he definitely WON'T become an elite QB. You've tried to take me saying that I don't see something happening and twisitng that into me saying that something definitely WON'T happen. That's just wrong, and you're reading into my comments what you want to see, not what's there. How much clearer can I say it? My guess is that Ryan Tannehill will not become a franchise, elite QB, I just don't see it happening. And if I'm wrong, all the better. But that's a far cry from what you're claiming that I'm saying, that he WILL NOT become a franchise QB. That's bs.
