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Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    2 vote(s)
    4.2%
  3. An average QB

    6 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. An above average QB

    22 vote(s)
    45.8%
  5. An elite QB

    14 vote(s)
    29.2%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    Outside of the bickering, I just wanted to say I'm proud of Tannehill. That was a gutsy run and one hell of a Cinderella story. It also gave me something to cheer for late into Jan. Titans made noise in the playoffs, and that was more then we could have asked for. It sucks that now we are going to have the vultures hovering trying to pick apart a truly successful season, all to belittle one of the most embattled QBs of recent memory.

    As for Dolphins... I got a little bit of a taste of post season play now.. YOU GUYS better start serving up some late season fun for us!
     
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  2. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Never easy, but they stand to have a solid amount of cap space even after RT/DH. If Casey restructures it could be even more significant.

    Couple veteran guy's and draft well? i like em.

    (Also the aforementioned Corey Davis is a cut away from another $8M free'd up)
     
    The Guy likes this.
  3. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    If you need one of the league's best pass defenses to diminish the performance of one of the league's top QBs in a game like yesterday's, so that you can keep pace offensively and have a good chance of winning, then you're no different from an average QB in the league. They all need that as well.

    Tannehill didn't play at the average level overall in 2019, but in terms of what he needs to win a Super Bowl, he functions like an average QB. This is why I've said he's average "in effect."
     
  4. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The only relevance of this for me personally is the information we get from what we're seeing, so that we know whether the personnel strategy the Dolphins are using to win is the most sound one. Tannehill's 2019 season is important only insofar as it gives us some of that information.
     
  5. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    What a load of crap.
     
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  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yeah I think on tbe backside that it was the right call.
     
  7. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Mahomes won’t have the luxury of holding tbe ball against the 9ers as long as he did against the titans.

    he’s gonna face more heat fo sho (assuming that 9ers d travels)

    titans need another edge rusher and some cb help. That should be priority numero uno. Could upgrade vacarro too

    Correa is pretty solid in base doesn’t give you much in sub.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    He got them to the AFCCG.
     
  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Guess Jimmy G is complete garbage with his 7 pass attempts.

    Guess Rodgers is garbage cause he needs a run game and defense to help win, and takes strip sacks when oline players whiff on blocks.
     
  10. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Whole different level defense playing zone behind the 9ers front. Whole different level. Counting on that front 4 to get home and taking away the qb flats escape routes with the zone ask.
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  11. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    “The Guy” has a great strategy.

    Just move on from your QB you’ve built a team around and developed for four years if he isn’t as good as Mahomes after his rookie contract runs out.

    Then draft or sign an MVP quality QB. Simple.
     
  12. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    You ignored the rest of what I said. EVEN ELITE QB don't often win from the sixth seed. It has happened twice(sixth seed wins at all, not elite QBs win). So regardless of anything else, Tannehill wasn't likely to go further. It was really unlikely that he should have made the AFC championship game.

    If you are going to have to beat the reigning champs, #1 team, and most explosive team all as away games, then you actually need alot more then a great team, you need a lot of luck.

    Now had they won their division and gotten a bye, who knows what would have happened. Could Baltimore of taken out KC and then Titans only had to take out 1 of the best teams in the league?

    What I don't get is how unbalanced your approach is.

    If the QB rating is positive for Tannehill, then it needs context and to be analyzed. If its negative it turns into the end all be all and needs to be trusted by everyone.

    If he has some amazing stretch of games, then statistically its not important. But, if he has a bad game out comes the claims that he is average or "in effect average". Hell this time he didn't even have a bad game, but its still the conclusion you came up with.

    Titans could have beaten the Chiefs yesterday. It's football, a bad throw here or there, or a fumble can completely turn a game around. Even if Titans had won today, I doubt any of the pro Tannehill crowd would make the statement that he is better then Mahomes.
     
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  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    True, but once again, the better RUSHING team with the better DEFENSE won. You saw this in BOTH Championship games yesterday and throughout the playoffs.

    Forget the passing stuff, Mahomes beat the Titans running with the ball to move the chains and increase the team's opportunities. He and (former Dolphin) Damien Williams were the better runners in the AFCCG and the Chiefs were able to hold on and win. The picked up more 3rd down conversions and out-rushed the Titans 112 to 85.

    In the 9ers game, the Packers couldn't run and were out-rushed 285 yards to 62. Garappolo had only 6 completions for 77 yards in the win. Aaron Rodgers had 31 completions and 2 TDs, but also 2 INTS, 3 sacks, and 3 fumbles in the loss.

    9ers did the same thing to the Vikings, our-rushing them 186 to 21.

    Winning consistently comes down to being able to run the ball and play defense better than your opponent.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There was at least 2 occasions that I can remember where he made a good play by avoiding the rush to avoid a sack and then instead of scrambling for positive yards or even throwing it away, he threw it to a receiver that was well covered and 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage, which resulted in a loss on the play. Just a couple of bone head decisions, as he could see that the receiver was going to get clobbered as soon as he caught it (or couldn't see it - maybe his QB brain isn't wired like that).
     
  16. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    i saw that too but it is his backside bail out dump option in the progression. Probably better off just to throw it in the dirt but again is built into the progression as the dump. One of the times it was a front side primary probably better to skip that one.

    I know one thing. I have a new found appreciation for the honey badger after that game. He was everywhere and playing assignment sound and with very high level instincts.
     
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  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Rodgers has a game like yesterday, and its his team's fault, or credit to the other defense.

    If Tannehill were to have that game, it would be concrete confirmation he's not a franchise QB and should be a back-up at best.

    He basically has to play mistake-free football EVERY game.

    The best DIY QB in the league, Wilson, couldn't carry his team to a win in GB last week...he must be a back-up too, no?
     
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  18. danmarino

    danmarino Justice for Jacob Blake Club Member

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    Rodgers had an 80% completion rate, 330 yards, 2TD's, 2 INT's (One of which was basically a Hail mary), averaged over 8 Y/A with a high 90's passer rating.

    RT had a 68% completion rate, 209 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's, averaged about 7 Y/A with around a 110 passer rating.

    Anyone blaming either QB for their team's loss yesterday don't have a clue about much.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be fair, most of the Dolphin players that we loved are no longer Dolphins...and we don't know most of the names of the new Dolphins either. And the ones we do know will mostly be replaced this off-season. So if we moved this thread, we'd just about have to move everything to other NFL teams as well since there's not a single post on the front page about our current roster.

    Sadly, this topic has been so popular because the state of the Dolphins hit an all-time low this past season. We all finally had someone to root for (or against) in the playoffs and I have to admit that was a great feeling in an otherwise forgettable Miami Dolphins season. Don't get me wrong, week 17 was great...but it was only great because the team was so devoid of talent and Fitzpatrick worked so hard all season to make a game like that even possible.

    Tannehill, on the other hand, let us feel like we were a part of something special for the past three months...and they were really inches away from a Super Bowl appearance in Miami. It doesn't get much more special than that for folks who have stood behind Tannehill for 8+ seasons. Heck, I argued with those guys for 3-4 years before hopping on the bandwagon and it was just as special to me.

    I did think the same thing as you- the season is over, the Titans lost so now is probably as good of a time as any to finally close this thread permanently. There's really nothing here left to argue...either you appreciate what the Titans (and Tannehill) did or you don't. But at the same time, once this thread does close....well, then what? We will have the exact same argument over Tua, Burrow, Herbert, Love or Hurts for the next three months? We sure can't talk about Dolphins football because we don't even know if some of our favorite players will be here next year.

    Sure, they extended Howard and Parker...but who's to say they don't trade them for even more draft capital? What if someone offered a 2nd for Preston Williams? Amazing find, but see ya Williams! Just like that he could be gone any day now. We just don't know what this franchise will do or how their strategy will unfold.

    Here's something to think about. Once the season ends, I am one of the few who post here throughout the off-season and I can tell you firsthand that it's a ghost town. Usually cBrad sticks around and maybe about 10-15 others through the slow months...some might pop in once every two weeks or so. I'll often tell some off-field Dolphins stories since I met several of the greats as a kid, and we'll argue a little bit about draft prospects or who we should draft in free agency. Not much going on. Yet because of Tannehill, here we are a week from February and this board is still in full football mode with hundreds logging on daily and new members still joining. And even the biggest of haters have to admit that it's pretty darn cool.

    I really don't care if you love RT or hate him at this point because truth be told, you're reading this post today because of him. Over 90% of you would have jumped ship weeks ago if it wasn't for Tannehill, so that makes me appreciative for one more thing that he's done over his career....he actually united us at Tennessee Titans fans/haters. And that's pretty darn cool for an alleged washed up QB who can't handle pressure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  20. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I thought that on some of the plays as well, but on 1 of them he had a blocker coming to clear the one defender. The blocker just didn't get to the defender quick enough. It was the right play that time, but had the same results.

    He was good about making these decisions throughout the year. I'm willing to put it down as an off game for him(possible nerves), since I didn't see him do it throughout the rest of the season.
     
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  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Tannehills situational instincts needs to be better. I thought it was something to develop. Evidently I thought wrong.

    it’s still evident. Leaks into other aspects of his game.
     
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  22. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    My response to this is something I posted earlier in the thread -- hope it helps with some greater understanding of my position:
     
  23. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between blaming a quarterback for losing a game, and saying his performance was consistent with needing help from a top pass defense to be able to keep pace with the league's best QBs.

    Josh Rosen would've flat out lost yesterday's game. Tannehill didn't lose the game -- he simply performed in a way that necessitated a top pass defense so as to diminish Mahomes's performance and help Tannehill keep pace.

    And he was performing at about his personal ceiling in such a game, so his team shouldn't think it can get more out of him in that regard -- it should focus on improving his pass defense so he can contend with those kinds of QBs in the playoffs next year.

    Whether the Titans can accomplish that under the salary cap is questionable, but that should be their strategy. They aren't in the position of targeting an elite QB in the draft like the Dolphins are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  24. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    And that might have something to do with why, in high-volume games, his average performance decreases so much more than that of the best QBs in the league. There is simply a greater number of opportunities in a high-volume game for the above issue to diminish his performance.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The screen/dump off to a Henry I initially thought was a bad decision. Then I watched the replay and saw TWO linemen JOGGING up the field, and just missing getting the block to spring Henry. If they'd run, Henry would have had blockers.
     
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  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yeah that’s called in from the sideline and if he doesn’t throw it then you got illegal men downfield

    one of them was a dump off if I recall correctly
     
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  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought the same thing- at first it looked like a dumb pass, but the replay showed that it had huge potential if Henry could have made the first blocker miss.
     
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  28. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Well it will be interesting to see what choices the Titans make and how it will effect them over the next few years. THill on a huge contract, Henry on a big one ... will they get enough surrounding pieces to stay competitive? Can those 2 guys continue to carry the team? It's not really all that different from the Vikings if you think about it, and the money they dumped into Cousins and will into Cook. Are the Vikings legit Super Bowl contenders with Cousins under center?
     
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  29. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    I'm not sure any QB would've been able to overcome the Chiefs offensive production the past two weeks without an top 5 or elite pass defense. At one point, I believe the Chiefs scored a TD on 5 straight possessions (all of 60+ yards) or 5 of 6 possessions

    Tom Brady needed someone lined up offsides last year to surmount the same offense. And this year, I'm confident they would've lost the same game. Same goes for Rodgers's Packers and Brees's Saints IMO
     
  30. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah we may be looking at the Michael Jordan of the NFL here.
     
  31. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I don't believe Tannehill will get top money...maybe something with some incentives built-in, but nothing near $35-40M. Maybe around Cousins' money, I'm thinking slightly less. Henry may get top dollar though.
     
  32. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I think Tannehill and Henry will (should?) give Tennessee a home town discount because Tennessee gave Tanny an opportunity that basically no other team was going to give him and they stood by Henry with his early career struggles.
    If I am Tannehill I’ve been paid a big contract in Miami and I would be more motivated about establishing a legacy than maximizing the dollar value of a contract. Henry is still on his rookie deal so he will want to get paid properly.
     
  33. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    IMO obviously but no they damn well shouldn't give up money to a team for that reason. Football is a violent and dangerous sport that will cause them problems later in life. Get your fair worth.
     
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  34. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    We likely haven't seen the last of Tannehill to Landry connections. They're both gonna be in the pro-bowl...along with Tunsil.

    And Calais Campbell will be too :/

    Edit: And Minkah, of course.
     
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  35. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    If anyone here truly believes that "elite" quarterbacks don't have all of, or a combination of...

    A powerhouse offensive line
    A powerhouse running game
    Elite talented receivers that can catch nearly anything thrown to them
    A powerhouse defense

    You have no idea what you're talking about...
     
  36. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Should be amusing when the 49ers crush the chiefs. I guess it will be because Mahomes is an average game manager and garrapolo is on an elite level. QB theory according to Guy
     
  37. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    KC is very slightly favored by Vegas at -120 with a spread of -1. Over/Under is at 54.5 so they're expecting a high scoring game.
    https://www.sportsbook.ag/sbk/sportsbook4/nfl-betting/super-bowl-liv-game-lines.sbk

    I don't agree with the -1 spread per se (it's consistent with their -120 moneyline but I think whoever wins will win by a larger margin), but I do agree with Vegas that KC should be slightly favored and that it is likely to be a high scoring affair.

    SF stopped Rodgers but let's be honest: both Rodgers and GB as a whole looked flat for the entire 1st half, and Rodgers in general looked "old" to me in that game. Mahomes is another story, and I don't think SF's defense will stop KC's offense that easily. I also don't think KC's defense will have an easy time stopping SF's offense, but of the two I think Mahomes will have it easier.

    Anyway, I'll be rooting for Mahomes because I really like him as a player. I'm also never forgiving SF for preventing Marino from winning a SB in his record-breaking 1984 season. Maybe Mahomes can pay back SF with the same scoreline: 38-16 (which coincidentally is just 0.5 points under Vegas' expected points total for this upcoming matchup lol).
     
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  38. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    You’ve said multiple times that you define quarterback play in terms of whether their team wins, so naturally the above is true for you.

    However, that doesn’t account for the quarterbacks who play at an elite level individually but whose teams don’t win. Those quarterbacks don’t have the team ingredients listed above, but they play at an elite level nonetheless.
     
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  39. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The 49ers won’t crush the Chiefs precisely because Mahomes isn’t average and Garoppolo isn’t elite.

    The 49ers can certainly win, but they will not “crush” the Chiefs.
     
  40. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I dont necessarily think either team will be crushed, but that is a pretty bold statement. It's the NFL and games get away from even the best teams sometimes.
     
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