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Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    4 vote(s)
    5.8%
  3. An average QB

    7 vote(s)
    10.1%
  4. An above average QB

    38 vote(s)
    55.1%
  5. An elite QB

    16 vote(s)
    23.2%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    5.8%
  1. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    What he did in his first full year starting, would probably equate to like 7500 yards passing and 65 TDs, today. That season was RIDICULOUS! Most fun I ever had watching sports, until they lost to the Niners (my most hated team, even before then).
     
  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If you adjust by the ratio of league average TD's today vs. league average TD's in 1984, and similarly for yards, Marino's 48 TD's in 1984 comes out to 54.4 TD's in 2019, and his 5084 yards in 1984 comes out to 5802 yards in 2019. Well beyond everyone else today.
     
  3. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    That's great, and probably very accurate and all. But I like my numbers better :)
     
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  4. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    There's no way in hell you can ever convice me that Marcus is better than Ryan.

    I've watched him the last 4 years and all he did was regressed. Confidence shot to a point where he couldnt even complete bubble screen passes this year wich led to him being benched
     
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  5. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to convince you that Mariota is better than Tannehill; only that Tannehill's performance in Miami wasn't better than Mariota's in Tennessee.

    When you look back at Tannehill's performance in Miami, you should find more reasons to question whether his current performance will be sustained than you do reasons it should have been predicted to occur.
     
  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're seriously using 2018 as an example of people being wrong? I just noticed you said that...that is completely ridiculous.
     
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  7. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    I can only judge him by this year. I can tell he can throw the ball and his accuracy has been crazy good. Last QB that was here with the same talent was Matt Hasselbeck.
     
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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    People here clamored for Manziel.
    That is how nuts the anti-Tannehill crowd got here
     
  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Depends on the poster, but yes in general we've had many years in the past where people said Tannehill would be top 10 in passer rating that year etc... and it didn't occur. And yes best example was 2018 because so many agreed Tannehill finally had the right coach (Gase) and the right surrounding cast. Even the 5 games prior to injury Tannehill had a 92.9 rating, which was exactly league average!
     
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  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    If Joe Philbin and Adam Gase has gone on and made elite quarterbacks with the Jets...and wherever Philbin ended up, I might could buy your argument but seeing remarkably successful they’ve been...

    Let’s be completely honest and call it like it is, Tannehill had crap for coaching here in Miami.
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude. Omg
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Wait a second.. my argument is precisely because we had crap coaching that there's no reason to think Tannehill would succeed here. In other words, there's no reason to "regret" seeing Tannehill go because there's no evidence he would have succeeded here. Him being traded was arguably the best for everyone involved (Tannehill, Titans AND Dolphins.. unless you think he would have succeeded here).
     
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  13. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Ok we agree in that regard. We did have ***CRAP*** coaching.

    Could Tannehill have succeeded in Miami under Flores? Guess we’ll never know but at least Tannehill is with a team with some damned fine coaching and I couldn’t be happier for him
     
  14. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I wonder if any reporter will have the stones to ask Stephen Ross what it's like to see Tannehill do so well for another organization while he's paying most of his salary?
     
  15. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I”d rather see a reporter as Gase why Tannehill has been so much more successful in Tennessee than in Miami.
     
  16. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If I were Gase I'd say because he was recovering from injury and Grier couldnt put even a marginal OL together and neglected the running back position when he didnt fluke into someone
     
  17. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    With as brutal as New York sports media is, I wonder if that question has already been posed in articles regarding Gase, Tannehill and the ineptitude of the Jets
     
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  18. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    How soon we forget. Gase was the HC for 3 years and Tannehill missed half of it. The consensus seems to be that it takes a player a full season to return to form after a major knee injury. I'm pretty sure Tannehill is right where Gase expected him to be.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  19. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Nick foles ran the chip kelly neutered qb offense in Philly that year with the tempo based no huddle offense.

    product of the system results more than anything else. Until the nfl caught up with Kelly’s concepts late that year and come the following year completely had it figured out.

    we’ve talked about this before.

    Miami ran a similar concept neutered qb offense 2014 and 2015 with Kelly’s disciple yet we did even worse. Ran it without the no huddle tempo.
     
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  20. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    That's analogous to the point I've made regarding Tannehill in 2019 and frequent QB rollouts. If and when the NFL catches up with the fact that on a comparatively large percentage of passing plays, Tannehill's passing targets are confined to half the field, we may see a similar outcome.
     
  21. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    That’s not even remotely comparable. The entire league uses roll outs it’s a staple even.
     
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  22. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen a lot of QBs who need a heavy dose of half field reads only passing concepts.

    tannehill on tape has never been one of them. Sure they are gonna use roll outs off of heavy run looks etc and predetermined primary progressions etc or even single concept ones with the QBs legs as the secondary option and tiered half field reads but any notion of tannehill can’t function as a full field progression based qb has never held water.
     
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  23. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    It's not a question of whether he needs them or can't function without them -- it's a question of how much they account for the increased performance and whether that's sustainable.
     
  24. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    you are reaching. The ball goes where the coverage says it should go. Regardless of the concept/design.

    this is not a limit the qb ask qb. I can literally run anything found in any nfl team/college concept you can put out there with tannehill and run it efficiently.

    mariota? Not so much.
     
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  25. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Here are a couple of interesting articles about Tannehill in 2019 and his future:
    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/12/ryan-tannehill-titans-franchise-qb-new-contract

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...ll-breakout-real-why-advanced-stats-love-next
     
  26. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    If rolling out was preferable to pocket passing, pocket passers wouldn't have a premium put on them, and QBs would roll out on every play.

    Again, it's not that Tannehill can't do anything else. It's whether the increased performance is accounted for by something that isn't sustainable in the NFL, and if so by how much.

    These are all questions any responsible GM should be asking himself when determining the future contract offered to Tannehill. The articles I posted above are providing the same kinds of questions and analyses.
     
  27. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    "If rolling out was preferable to pocket passing, pocket passers wouldn't have a premium put on them, and QBs would roll out on every play.

    Again, it's not that Tannehill can't do anything else. It's whether the increased performance is accounted for by something that isn't sustainable in the NFL, and if so by how much.

    These are all questions any responsible GM should be asking himself when determining the future contract offered to Tannehill. The articles I posted above are providing the same kinds of questions and analyses."

    LOL

    Do you hear the "Beep...Beep...Beep..."

    That's a Brinks truck...backing into the building in Nashville...delivering a ton of bags with RT's picture on 'em.​
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  28. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I think it's definitely harder to stop a roll out from a player like Tannehill because even though he may predominantly move right, he is entirely capable of rolling to his left and making a play.

    If he could only roll right I'd agree.
     
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  29. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Here's an article that indicates the Titans were fourth in the league in pass blocking win rate in 2019.

    Note however that as cbrad has cautioned many times, the league ranking is almost meaningless due to the low degree of variation in pass blocking win rate throughout the league. The average pass blocking win rate in the NFL in 2019 was 58.5%, and the standard deviation 5.89. Therefore the Titans, even though ranked fourth in the league, were less than a standard deviation (0.76) above the league average.

    Also, the league-wide correlation between pass blocking win rate and passer rating in 2019?

    A mere 0.28.

    92.2% of the variance in passer rating throughout the league in 2019 is accounted for by things other than teams' pass blocking win rate.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...s-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard
     
  30. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    As soon as he rolls either direction, his likelihood of passing the ball to the other side of the field becomes extremely low, and the opposing defense consequently moves all of its defenders the same direction, leaving a comparatively lower number of passing targets matched up against a higher-than-normal number of defenders.

    If that was difficult for opposing defenses to do as a function of not knowing the direction the QB will roll before the snap, I think you would have a point, but it isn't.
     
  31. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If defenses start shifting entirely to one side it can open up a throw to the other side of the field.

    Granted it wont be an out route or something ridiculous, but Tannehill has the ability to stop plant and throw a deep post or go route back to the other side of the field.

    I dont think its necessarily as easy as shifting your defense. It isnt like no tape exists already so if it were that simple I think it would be done already.

    What a roll out really does is just force defenders to cover for longer. It allows a QB more time to read a zone and find a weak spot, so on.

    I'm a firm believer that given enough time a WR should beat his man 100% of the time. So it really depends more to me on creating pressure than shifting coverage.

    Adding on hold on while I edit lol

    Edit: Also a rollout doesnt have to take away an entire side of the field. More often than not you arent rolling to the sideline but rather about a hash Mark's distance to create a new point in the pocket the defense cant attack as easily. Unless it's a wide roll that takes you to the sideline you arent necessarily cutting the field in half, more like cutting a quarter of it off really.
     
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  32. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    There’s nothing tannehills doing that isn’t sustainable. Now obviously leading the league in passer rating is a little mucb to ask yearly but in terms of the ask of the qb and the execution of the actual qb itself there is no reason to think that his play is destined to fall off the table.

    none nada nilch. Frankly had he never gotten cheap shotted and shredded his knee and Miami not been largely incompetent personnel wise around the qb and gutted the roster last offseason even I’d say he’d be doing it in Miami.

    The kid can play. I know what that tape says. And I know how to separate/id qb limitation from other things.

    what’s completely bonkers to me is that other QBs can/do benefit from other things around the qb yet Ryan tannehill can’t. Never understood that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  33. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Additionally, if someone were to get out of the box score and stats breakdowns, and watched him play over the past month, they'd see PLENTY of tape of him rolling one direction and throwing back to the vacated side of the field...sometimes on the move without stopping to reset, throwing over 30/40 yards across his body...and they were ABSOLUTE DIMES!
     
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  34. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    This video, starting at 2:09, tell me how rolling right takes out the left side of the field?

     
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  35. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t but not all concepts have a delayed release back side built in either.
     
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  36. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think 2018 which was tannehills worst season on tape was all about rust from time missed. Timing of ball out of hand was just off. It was like that pretty much all year.

    We’d run a primary wheel with a back with a pick off a stack etc he’d hold it for an extra tick/hitch and the ball would come out late relative to the help safety position etc.

    I saw it all year. Even stop routes and square ins etc he was a tick late or taking an extra hitch step.

    this year even from the preseason that was gone. Ball coming out relative to route concept and in sync with them spot on.

    and that’s driving his 2019 results as much as anything. I actually think it’s the difference. And it’s how you get such an efficient qb. He’s always been plenty accurate enough and the ball has pretty much always been placed well. But the timing this year is lock step.

    He also understands leverage and how to throw away from it and to the proper shoulder. But that’s always been the case it just helps with max rac relative to play call and expected return.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  37. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    I cant wait for this Saturday game. I really wanna see how he does a somewhat good defense.
     
  38. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Got it. My bad.
     
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  39. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The same Adam Gase who made the Jet’s OL performance significantly worse than 2018?
    The same Adam Gase who strongly objected to the signing of Leveon Bell?
    The same Adam Gase who could get a season passer rating roughly 25 points lower with a pre-injury Tannehill?
    Even if you only take “the streak” in 2016 into account with the unicorn line and Jay Aijai Tannehill”s 2019 production far exceeds what Gase could achieve.
     
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  40. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    You're lumping a ton of things on Gase and while some are his fault, others aren't necessarily something he did wrong. Why would he want Bell? Everyone and their mother knew that was a terrible signing.
     

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