An interesting read on how SB teams drafted linemen (offensive and defensive) - did they give greater concentration to linemen in the first round than the rest of the league? No. On the offensive side actually drafted fewer in the 1st round than one would expect; and similar on the DL. Worth reading. Also a link to a different/previous look at linemen in the draft. http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/12/16/super-bowl-teams-and-building-along-the-lines/ The upshot of it all is that SB teams do have good lines (O & D), but did not devote an extra # or higher picks on them. They simply drafted better! Who'd a thunk it? The bottom line is, draft effectively. If you draft a Pat White - you are screwing the team over. Same with Pat Turner. Don't go all cute and out-thinking-yourself and screw up again! Period. Ireland's back is against the wall. Either he comes out of this draft with some serious upgrades or he is gone and the whole regime is gone (perhaps save Nolan if they are able to keep him this year).
Depends more what system is used and the team needs are on draft day. Teams that zone block (old 49ers, Broncos, and now Texans) can get viable OL starters later in the draft.
Ugh, of all the merde de toro, generalizations are next to useless in the case of "who" makes the Super Bowl, each yr the situation is unique. Da'Fns, I would suggest you examine the 2009 draft class's second round if you believe White was a horrible pick, that is shaping up to be a poor second round.
First, the "Whatever" dismissal (essentially the first point) is not an argument at all. It doesn't engage the point of the author of the piece. Generalizations over time are not useless when one looks back 30 years to 1980 - one can dismiss several myths. I've examined the 2nd and 3rd round a number of times over and there are plenty of other picks there better than White. A few, to be sure, have been injured this year - but that doesn't mean they are not/were not vastly better selections (nor does it mean they would be injured if they were on the Dolphins) ... Max Unger is a great case in point (a starter for 16 games in his rookie year - and a player that was on the radar). Several others who were (before injury) or are contributors on their teams (whether stars or not - they are contributors) and could easily have been rational selections given the 'Fins needs: - LeSean McCoy - Phil Loadholt - Massaquoi - Levitre - Kruger (gets a good deal of PT on a strong front 7 for Baltimore) - Moore (SS - oh, really didn't have a need there!) - Moala - Vollmer - Fletcher - CB (10 PDs and 4 INT's this year - couldn't use that much though, could we now?) - Michael Johnson - DE Really don't even need to bring up all those names of players who are contributing far more to their teams that White EVER even HOPED to contribute to the Dolphins - let alone the ridiculously poor contribution he did bring. But, several of those were on rumor lists for the Dolphins; let alone available there when they had the pick. It was a horrific pick. Ridiculous. That assumed the Dolphins did not have serious needs elsewhere (either immediately or in the near future). There is no argument. White was a horrific pick (the number of players still in the NFL making contributions or still with hopes of making contributions selected after White - compared to the number of teams calling White when he was cut says it all); as was Turner.
Parcells and Ireland are not drafting poorly, and trotting out Patrick Turner and Pat White as examples isn't really grasping the reality of what happens in the draft. Teams perceived to be "elite" in terms of drafting frequently blow high round draft picks, and what they've done stands up quite favorably to many teams perceived as being "elite" drafting teams.
Louis Delmas-injured most of 2010 Brian Robiskie-highly unproductive 2 seasons in Cleveland Alphonso Smith-traded for 7th rd pick on verge of being cut by Denver Rey Maulauga-broke leg missed most of 2009 Ebon Britton-tore labrum done for 2010 Ron Brace-cannot get playing time ahead of 7th rd pick and UDFA Two more already have been waived, David Veikune and Cody Brown, several more have missed most of 09 or 10 with injuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_Draft Look for yourself, the 09 2nd rd is a toxic waste field with half the class either injured or frozen out of playing time for the team that drafted them. However let me add that does not excuse the failure of Pat White in Miami, it does point out that for that draft class there was a higher than normal percentage of busts, injuries, and under performance, it looks very much like the NFL scouting process laid a collective egg in the 2009 draft's 2nd round. On to the main point, such generalization overlooks that each yr it takes a different formula to reach the SB, the same game plan, say "the Greatest Show on Turf" had a two appearance run, then was heard from no more, they did have a Franchise #1 overall Olinemen however using that generalization, they did not need to have Orlando Pace.
No one hits on very pick...the pat white class rebuilt our secondary in one draft that's not poor drafting it's one lapse in 9 judgments..I'll forgive that if he keeps hitting on the Vontaes Jake longs Clemons Hartlines Misi Smiths Langfords every year.
If you'd like I'd be happy to list all the Jets Pats and Bills "lapses" the last three years I'm tired and working ATM but I'll be more than happy to do it for you later...it's a long list.
Clint Sintim, the guy "some" people were really high on? -Could not see the field in 09, in 2010 tore his ACL last week after starting 2 games or so for the Giants. -Conner Barwin tore his ACL in the first four games -Fili Moala cannot see the field for the Colts -Richard Quinn on IR for the yr for Denver after they traded a 2010 #1 pick to move up and draft him Now the 09 first round was loaded, the second round? Not so much. Now back on topic, Da'Fins believes Ireland is on the hot seat, but look at the move: Traded back from the #56 pick to the #62 pick with the Colts for a 5th rd pick #156 -#62 turned into Sean Smith #156 turned into Chris Clemons He picked up another Starter for moving back 6 slots in the second round, that is fine fine work.
What I took from the article is that there are some positions that you're more likely to need to use 1st round picks to fill and that OL isn't one of them. I would exclude LT from that list since they're difficult to find anywhere else. DL was a position that successful teams were more likely to use 1st rounds picks to acquire. That doesn't mean you don't need good lines. It just means that the good O-lines were generally built with the majority of the players coming from somewhere other than the 1st round.
The idea that you can find good offensive linemen later on in the draft and develop them certainly isn't a new concept. I recall Parcells having made a similar comment back around his NY Jet days. To that extent this front office has been fairly pro-active in poaching and signing guys like Nate Garner, Lydon Murtha and Matt Kopa in hopes that one of them will eventually develop into a starter.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing that a) other teams don't blow picks; or b) that Ireland/Sparano have not had some decent drafts (certainly better than the prior regime!). But, teams have to acquire two groups of players a) that at key positions are not just decent starters; but superstars; and b) a group that fill the holes in the team sufficiently (the "decent" or consistent starter) to prevent major breakdowns. The Dolphins have acquired a few decent starters and a few upper tier players in the draft. But, they have not landed the superstars at key positions (e.g., QB), and still struggle to get needs filled (e.g., interior OL) by players who can consistently start for 4-5 years.
I am not arguing they have drafted "poorly" - nowhere did I argue this. I did argue that they have had some bad misses. The bottom line is talent accumulation at key positions that leads to winning consistently. Sometimes missing badly on certain players at certain positions can set a team back. The Turner miss was not so critical. The White miss was more so. The fact is, assuming Ross doesn't make any big changes, Ireland really does have to come through with some big picks this year in a depleted draft (as far as # of picks are concerned). The ultimate bottom line about whether you do the job is winning. Making it to SB's, winning SB's, fielding a team that is playoff bound and has potential to beat anyone. The Dolphins do not have that yet - so the jury is still out. But, the time frame (in NFL "time" - Not For Long) increases the pressure on Ireland - which is my primary point.
