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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Caps, Aug 18, 2008.
Good to see a market is being created. I think Beck can get more than a late round pick.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Cowboys offered our Jason Ferguson pick back for Beck.
I'm also a bit surprised that Chicago hasn't been sniffing around a bit. Grossman isn't cutting it and I'm not sure Orton will ever be anything more than a journeyman.
That confirms the Cowboys interest reported a couple of weeks ago
Cowboys possibly interested in Beck
I'd have to think if the Dolphins front office was just going to flat out cut Beck, as some have asserted, this would have been (or perhaps still could be) the way to go.
The fact that Beck is still in Miami means something.
Like that maybe, just maybe, they dont think he is a steaming pile of trash.
And think it would be pretty dumb to trade/cut a second year QB who has flashed some defanent NFL talent.
I think any team will just wait and see who becomes available after the cuts.
Anything later than a fourth, we are better off keeping him.
I don't get it.....
Why the interest in such a failed prospect that has clearly shown his inability to become an NFL QB.
I guess these teams aren't reading these boards or they'd know better.
But that's not what Dallas did, according to the article. They've made an offer, one that we didn't accept... at least to this point (and I don't think we would, btw, but you never know).
Like dolphan117 was suggesting, maybe they see more value in the young quarterback than many here and in the media believe.
That depends. At least if you trade for the guy you're assured of getting him. It wouldn't surprise me to see a number of trades involving late round picks when you have a team like Miami who will actively work the waiver wire or scour for free agents.
Based on WHAT? He may have a lot of potential, but he hasn't shown anything on the field to make him worth more than a late round pick to another team.
Agreed. It'd be nice to get at least a 3rd... possibly a 2nd. We spent a high 2nd on him just last year.
The only things that hurt our chances is Beck's age, the rest of the league's awareness of our front office's increasing faith in moving forward with Henne and Penny, and Beck's unusually slow development.
To be honest, I'm a little surprised that Sparano is keeping Beck out of the preseason games, if their intent is to trade him. Keeping him from injury? Don't want him to show how bad he really is? Are 100% on moving forward without him, and want the offense to get ready for the regular season?
I'm just not sure about all this. All I know is, I just like John Beck. I think he's going to develop into a good QB for some team. It's going to be a letdown for me when he's (most likely) no longer a Phin.
If this staff was so dissapointed and convinced of Beck's incompetence that they were going to simply cut him then CERTAINLY they would have taken any pick they could for this kid who's shown "nothing".
We may still trade him if they get a better offer.
Personlly though I'm still firmly in the camp that it makes the most sense by far to keep the prospect and develop him more.
Based on teams knowing timewise what it takes to develop a QB prospect.
O MY GOD!!!!!!!!
First it was John Clayton, then it was Omar now it's Adam Schefter.Why is the Mass Media making up all these lies about Beck being shopped.
Ooooooooo MY GOD!!!!
That's the thing...he hasn't had that time and hasn't developed, so they have no way of knowing if he WILL. So considering that it's a big gamble, why would they throw anything other than a 6th or 7th rounder at the Fins for him?
Reading comprehension funkdat, reading comprehension.
This article doesn't say that we shopped him, it says that Dallas made an offer and we turned it down. Teams are always kicking the tires to see what's out there, that doesn't mean that players are available just because a team, in this case Dallas, makes an offer.
I suspect that most of the people who expect to get anything more for Beck at the moment than a late round pick would go bonkers if we were to offer a 2nd or 3rd for Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens or Travaris Jackson.
Ok Adam Schefter didn't say we are shopping him , just everyone else.you got me.
Ether way i think it's dumb to let the guy just walk.If it was up to me we'd kept 4 QB's this year.
Based on the same thing that made him a high 2nd round pick in the first place. His talent, his smarts, his arm, his ability, and his potential. While 'the light' hasn't gone on for Beck yet as an NFL QB... it most likely will... and when it does, he's going to be a heckuva QB for someone.
I'm not sure if you fall into this category, but, I think too many people are too quick to give up on horses who don't fire out of the gate in their first race... or their second... or their third.
Sometimes, it takes time. Sometimes it's well worth it to be patient. Once you make a commitment, you can't un-trade Jon Beck.
Adam Schefter also said that the Cowboys were so mad crazy for Darren McFadden that they were going to trade us their 2 1st rounders and Marion Barber, so his word isn't gospel.
Yeah, I don't agree with just cutting a player either. I'm still burning over the fact that McMichael was let go without getting anything in retunr for him.
That's a flawed logic, I'm afraid. Draft value and trade value are two different issues altogether.
Yup i know.
The McMichael thing was super dumb, how long is it going to take to replace him?
when you're only a year out of the draft with no injuries and very little playing time, i'd say they are still pretty similar. the idea of us trading him now is based on his potential. which is precisely the same reasons you draft someone. potential.
Here we go again, Beck lovers vs Haters
You draft someone based on potential. You trade for someone based on production with untapped potential possibly thrown into the mix for good measure. The kid had 3 starts in which he commited 8 turnovers - tell me that, if he was playing for any other team, you'd give up a 2nd or 3rd for Beck. Not happening, sorry. Look, there's a reason teams like Dallas don't draft a QB high. They don't need one that desperately. They already got their franchise guy. And if they actually did want one, they'd just draft a young guy themselves. The fact that Dallas is interested in the first place tells you that they see Beck as a career backup guy. You don't shell out a first day pick for a backup.
Here we go again, people constructing strawmen
I happen to like Beck. If it was up to me I'd keep him and see once and for all whether or not he's the guy. But it isn't up to me. And the fact that I like him doesn't change his trade value one bit. He's worth a late round pick right now, maybe a 4th at best and that's stretching it. I don't like it but it's the way it is.
Hopefully Fasano is the guy, it really all depends on the offense that we are using and how important the TE position will be in the passing offense. Are we going to resemble the Dallas offense where the TE is a featured player or will we be running Henning's offense that doesn't really use the TE as a receiver?
I think the fact that we were, supposedly, offered a pick for Beck and did not trade tells me that the organization still think there is something there to build upon. Maybe is isn't starter material, yet, but they must think he will be, at least, worth something to the Phins future plans.
Maybe the Cowboys offered a 7th and the FO decided to wait for at least a 6th? No way to know at this point but I think we'll know one way or the other before August 30. I fully expect them to either release or trade McCown or Beck before then.
this whole post.
Don't think that's always the case, especially with QBs.
Take Matt Schaub for instance. Here was a guy who's few stats over his rookie year, well the 42.0 QB rating sort of says it all (in limited attempts), were not good. 1 TD, 4 INTs. Really, at this point, isn't that where we are with Beck? His second year was when he showed some potential with the 4 TDs and 0 INTs in 64 attempts but there were still some warning signs - low completion pct, taking sacks. His third year was basically a game whole, but just 1 TD and 2 INTs in 27 attempts. Schaub got a little playing time, but QB-poor teams like us and the Texans were desperate and they paid for potential, not production. Matt Hasselbeck's another case and was much the same. The Dolphins thought about trading for him using 1st rounders, and Seattle did. All that was on potential, not production, and basically all preseason production.
And both teams got better value trading these quarterbacks than where these QBs were drafted, and both QBs were developed longer by their teams than Beck has been to this point. But they have to be developed and shown. They're assets. That's what they are.
I agree with you that at this point, we're not getting that kind of value from him, but that hardly means that John Beck is a lost cause for us. Far from it unless we give up on him, which again, a lot of people seem to be stating (not you).
sar·casm Listen to the pronunciation of sarcasm
French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b: the use or language of sarcasm
I'm one of the people that supports him, as well!!
Schaub's potential at least showed in terms of production in some games. If Beck were to have his kind of numbers (they weren't particularly good, I agree, but Beck's are abysmal at this point) we would be in a totally different position regarding trade value. You're right, QBs get overvalued pretty easily, but you need some sort of production to begin with. That's why I'd keep Beck around, by the way. Even if he wasn't my guy for the future, have him start a couple of games, hope for a good showing and voila, you've just raised his value from a late round pick to a first day pick at least.
Elaborate, please. I'd like to hear how using a pick to draft a rookie QB to try and help your team is 'different altogether' than trading a pick for a one-year QB to try and help your team.
The only difference to me is the timing.
Coral was being sarcastic.
Beck is just in a bad situation. He's only in his 2nd year so he obviously is a young player on the field who still needs plenty of time. But since he went on his mormon mission, he's around 27-28 so he doesn't have much time to spare. He's at the age where he needs to be starting in this league although his limited experience makes it impossible to be at that point in his career.
Because if we put him into a game, and he stinks, his trade value is damaged.
Right now the only reason to trade for Beck is the thought that he has potential, if that is dispelled, no one will offer much for him.
This FO loves getting maximum value out of any trades or signings that we make, so to me it would be smarter to play Beck with the first team and let him show what he has to offer, but if you are cautious there is no reason to play him.
IMO of course.