Sean Sailsbury:Henne will be good, but not Elite Qb.

you mean salisbury still has a job somewhere...lol...at the end of his espn career, his face looked like he was doing soy shots at benihana's all night..

I do think he's right about needing playmakers around him....he has great arm talent, but no athletic ability to put that arm into position to make plays on his own.

Padre has been talking about it alot..his skillset needs more weapons.

"djphinfan wrote:

you mean salisbury still has a job somewhere...lol...at the end of his espn career, his face looked like he was doing soy shots at benihana's all night..

I do think he's right about needing playmakers around him...he has great arm talent, but no athletic ability to put that arm into position to make plays on his own.

Padre has been talking about it alot..his skillset needs more weapons.

I don't agree with that at all.

I would say he needs a better feel for the pocket.

If you remember, one of his best plays is the roll out pass on the run.

He is athletic, more so than Pennington.

"djphinfan wrote:

you mean salisbury still has a job somewhere...lol...at the end of his espn career, his face looked like he was doing soy shots at benihana's all night..

I do think he's right about needing playmakers around him....he has great arm talent, but no athletic ability to put that arm into position to make plays on his own.

Padre has been talking about it alot..his skillset needs more weapons.

The fact that he no longer works at BSPN should be seen as a net plus Deej, Salisbury is a candid analyst, that is unacceptable at BSPN.

Besides, in 08 he was the ONLY BSPN analyst who saw our playoff run coming, that is yet another reason why I listen to his opinion on players over those of guys like Jaworski who blows sunshine to often.

Good audio Deej, recommend the listen.:up:

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

I don't agree with that at all.

I would say he needs a better feel for the pocket.

If you remember, one of his best plays is the roll out pass on the run.

He is athletic, more so than Pennington.

I don't agree with that. Pennington is actually a pretty decent scrambler. Chad Henne is not good at buying time when the pocket collapses. A designed rollout is one thing, from what I remember Penny was better at evading rushers long enough to make a play and at actually scrambling for first downs sometimes. He's no Michael Vick but I do think he has more athletic ability. Henne has brought back memories of Drew Bledsoe at times. Just my opinion from watching them play. Penny's arm is weak but his legs work just fine.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

I don't agree with that at all.

I would say he needs a better feel for the pocket.

If you remember, one of his best plays is the roll out pass on the run.

He is athletic, more so than Pennington.

Not any longer NJ, the waggle was money for Henne in 09 in 10 it was easily defended the patriots in particular feasted on it with 2 interceptions.

He was sacked 12 times so his pocket feel was not Ken O'Brienish, his problem is when he checks down the receiver isn't going anywhere, Fasano is not scaring anyone, neither is Bess, put a McCluster type down there and the equation changes.

"muscle979 wrote:

I don't agree with that. Pennington is actually a pretty decent scrambler. Chad Henne is not good at buying time when the pocket collapses. A designed rollout is one thing, from what I remember Penny was better at evading rushers long enough to make a play and at actually scrambling for first downs sometimes. He's no Michael Vick but I do think he has more athletic ability. Henne has brought back memories of Drew Bledsoe at times. Just my opinion from watching them play. Penny's arm is weak but his legs work just fine.

Like I said, Pennington has a better pocket awareness, but Henne is more athletic than Penny and faster.

Your talking about experience and smartness, Marino wasn't a very good athletic QB, but could feel the rush and one little slide made all the difference. Penny does the same thing.

Can Henne learn that? I don't know.

"padre31 wrote:

Not any longer NJ, the waggle was money for Henne in 09 in 10 it was easily defended the patriots in particular feasted on it with 2 interceptions.

He was sacked 12 times so his pocket feel was not Ken O'Brienish, his problem is when he checks down the receiver isn't going anywhere, Fasano is not scaring anyone, neither is Bess, put a McCluster type down there and the equation changes.

Again, that is pocket awareness, not athletic ability. Even Jake Long admits he has been under to much pressure from the rush, its a feel that he has not developed yet, Can he develop that awareness? I don't know.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

Like I said, Pennington has a better pocket awareness, but Henne is more athletic than Penny and faster.

Your talking about experience and smartness, Marino wasn't a very good athletic QB, but could feel the rush and one little slide made all the difference. Penny does the same thing.

Can Henne learn that? I don't know.

Nothing I have seen in a game backs that up. I was talking about Penny actually being quicker and a faster runner. At least it appears that way when plays break down.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

I don't agree with that at all.

I would say he needs a better feel for the pocket.

If you remember, one of his best plays is the roll out pass on the run.

He is athletic, more so than Pennington.

He can roll out to the right and release NJ, {very accurate when doing so} but imo that does not determine his level of athletic ability, Its very minimal imo..Pennington has some run instincts and some moves that Henne doesn't come close to..

The thing about Pennington is, that when he remembers to keep the scramble in his repetoire during a game, his overall game is so much more effective..when he gets in trouble is when he forgets to run and scramble..he, the staff, MUST keep this fresh in his mind before every drive, it is crucial to his game.

"muscle979 wrote:

Nothing I have seen in a game backs that up. I was talking about Penny actually being quicker and a faster runner.

That is true, Chad Henne is possibly the slowest Qb I've seen since Bernie Kosar, in the Vikings game he barely made it out of the endzone on a rollout and the defenders were out at the 12 yd line, Henne barely made it out to the 2 yd line.

Do think he is a better athlete than Drew Bledsoe though, Drew was..oblivious in the pocket and often suffered kill shots by defenders Henne has more pocket presence.

Salisbury talking about Henne's inconsistency is worth the listen as he is seeing what fans without agendas are seeing, he is wildly inconsistent and does not make the players around him better at the moment.

"djphinfan wrote:

He can roll out to the right and release NJ, {very accurate when doing so} but imo that does not determine his level of athletic ability, Its very minimal imo..Pennington has some run instincts and some moves that Henne doesn't come close to..

The thing about Pennington is, that when he remembers to keep the scramble in his repetoire during a game, his overall game is so much more effective..when he gets in trouble is when he forgets to run and scramble..he, the staff, MUST keep this fresh in his mind before every drive, it is crucial to his game.

Boy, I just don't see it, scrambling comes from awareness of the situation, not athletic ability (Unless your Vick). Penny is not very Athletic, he is smart and has great instincts and is a leader, that's what makes him good, athletic ability is way down on his list.

Henne's short comings is his awareness, not his athletic ability at all.

I do agree that Pennington is more athletic and a better scrambler, but I also remember him ducking down and protecting himself when he still could have made a throw.

"SRM wrote:

I do agree that Pennington is more athletic and a better scrambler, but I also remember him ducking down and protecting himself when he still could have made a throw.

Sometimes you have to make a business decision I guess. I didn't even fault Henne for sliding short of the marker last week because if he would have went the extra three yards Ray Lewis probably would have murdered him.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

Boy, I just don't see it, scrambling comes from awareness of the situation, not athletic ability (Unless your Vick). Penny is not very Athletic, he is smart and has great instincts and is a leader, that's what makes him good, athletic ability is way down on his list.

Henne's short comings is his awareness, not his athletic ability at all.

lol, dont get me wrong, I would not catergorize Penny as being athletic, just that he's higher on the list than Henne.

Your concerns about Henne in the pocket are valid, Iam worried too, and I think thats due to a lack of foot speed and athletic cordination..

"djphinfan wrote:

lol, dont get me wrong, I would not catergorize Penny as being athletic, just that he's higher on the list than Henne.

Your concerns about Henne in the pocket are valid, Iam worried too, and I think thats due to a lack of foot speed and athletic cordination..

And that's where we disagree, its from awareness and feel, not athletic ability.

I have watched each of Henne's games at least twice. After seeing all the good and bad, I look at the Pitt game as a measuring stick. He was 23-36, 257, 1 TD, 1pick, and a 94.3 rating.

This was not his best game but, to me, a defining moment. He played really well vs the best D in the NFL in a close game. He was not prime time but, close.

I also see where Marshall believes he will be an All Pro. Everyone knows that players are gonna say good things about another who has lost their job. However, Marshall could have very easily said that Henne would be a good NFL QB.

I still believe that Henne is going to star in this league. JMO.

"Southbeach wrote:

I have watched each of Henne's games at least twice. After seeing all the good and bad, I look at the Pitt game as a measuring stick. He was 23-36, 257, 1 TD, 1pick, and a 94.3 rating.

This was not his best game but, to me, a defining moment. He played really well vs the best D in the NFL in a close game. He was not prime time but, close.

I also see where Marshall believes he will be an All Pro. Everyone knows that players are gonna say good things about another who has lost their job. However, Marshall could have very easily said that Henne would be a good NFL QB.

I still believe that Henne is going to star in this league. JMO.

Sorry SB, Chad Henne did not throw an interception in the Steelers game.

Wr's pump Qb's, that is in the job description, the Qb feeds the Wr's it is in their interests to stay in the Qb's good graces.

But that stat line 250 yds, 1 TD, is more or less what Salisbury was speaking about, Henne is good, not elite, he did not torch them for 350, he had a good, not great, game.

"padre31 wrote:

Sorry SB, Chad Henne did not throw an interception in the Steelers game.

Wr's pump Qb's, that is in the job description, the Qb feeds the Wr's it is in their interests to stay in the Qb's good graces.

But that stat line 250 yds, 1 TD, is more or less what Salisbury was speaking about, Henne is good, not elite, he did not torch them for 350, he had a good, not great, game.

Henne has not thrown for 3 TDs in a game yet. He's only thrown for 2 TDs without an accompanying INT once. That doesn't mean that he won't, or can't, just that he hasn't.

i don't care if he is elite .... i absolutely believe he can and will be at least as good as Big Ben ... and started to show that in the PIT game -- less deep throws, which will come.

I'm not looking for Rivers, Manning or even Brady .... which i think given the right circumstances he could come close to a fringe Brady.

What i have maintained that i don't like about the coaching of Henne, is when i look at Ryan -- i don't see a guy with 'touch' passes ... and i also don't see a guy hitting his guys in stride -- they have to reach high above the shoulders to make catches ... but the point is -- his WRs do .... nearly every time.

Henne didn't need to learn 'touch' .... a la Pennington ... he needed to learn how to drop the medium pass in between the LBs and DBs ... that and learning to get air under the long pass are to me and remain his throwing shortfalls right now. Reading defenses i can't comment on -- few of could, because we just don't know what the play call was, regardless if there was an open WR.

Diatribe aside, i understood that the FO wanted to win this year -- and that's why they kept CP around .... so the change right now isn't terribly shocking, but still don't think its the right thing to do with the easy part of the schedule up next. But i also understand that Henne just isn't going to become what i believe he can in this particular environment.

the most glaring thing Henne needs is what EVERY successful QB in the league right now has ... a reliable TE, i did believe that Marshall coming into the fold would help spring Fasano -- but besides the drops and emphasis on blocking, it just hasn't worked out that way.

"padre31 wrote:

Sorry SB, Chad Henne did not throw an interception in the Steelers game.

Wr's pump Qb's, that is in the job description, the Qb feeds the Wr's it is in their interests to stay in the Qb's good graces.

But that stat line 250 yds, 1 TD, is more or less what Salisbury was speaking about, Henne is good, not elite, he did not torch them for 350, he had a good, not great, game.

A good game against the Pitt d ... almost like a great game :up:

BenVolinPBP Benjamin Volin
Here's 1 reason why Henne got yanked: His 4th quarter passer rating? 49.3, 36th-best in the #NFL, behind Gradkowski and ahead of Clausen

Defenses are not going to prevent against Henne in the 4th qtr, if anything I'd bet they move up closer to the LoS squeezing his throwing windows further.

Imho that is a function of some drops, and some lack of deep passing late in the game, nursing leads Henne just won't take chances..or step on throats.

Well Sean Salisbury knows a thing or two about being a backup in the NFL.

I've often said the same thing about Henne; that he probably would be good but not great. Probably.

I now feel that we'll never really know what Henne could have been. I feel strongly that this staff has wasted his crucial first three offseasons without developing him significantly beyond how he came out of Michigan, and that this may well have "stunted" Henne's development with an impact that will persist throughout his career.

Congratulations to Sparano, Lee, Henning and company on taking a kid with a cannon arm, from a major college program, and failing to develop him in three years much past what he brought to the table to begin with. That's quite a feat.

:up: Nabo -- I for one am of the same belief !