This should be interesting, we already had taken Vontae Davis to theoretically replace Andre Goodman, so who would you have taken at #62(#56 actually):
#56 (Sean Smith)
Paul Kruger
Sherrod Martin
Sebastian Vollmer
William Beatty
or
#61
Sen'Drick Marks
Cody Brown
Richard Quinn
Shonn Green
Bradley Fletcher
The thing that jumps out at me is the Panthers taking Sherrod Martin over Sean Smith, and we had traded back from the #56 pick to the #61 and picked up a pick from the Colts, so our board must have had Martin and Smith as similar players, or we had rejected Martin as to small and did not think anyone would take Sean Smith.
But that makes little sense in that the Panthers have taken large Cb's before, Gamble is a large Cb so who knows what Ireland was thinking on that trade back?
Sean Smith at #56 or?
Poll closed Jul 21, 2009.
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Paul Kruger/OLB
3 vote(s)37.5% -
Sebastian Vollmer/T Houston
0 vote(s)0.0% -
Sherrod Martin/Cb Troy
1 vote(s)12.5% -
William Beatty/T Uconn
1 vote(s)12.5% -
Sen'drick Marks/DT Auburn
1 vote(s)12.5% -
Cody Brown/Olb UConn
2 vote(s)25.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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Sherrod Martin plays safety too and the Panthers need help there.
I would have stuck with Sean Smith, btw.Xeticus, Anonymous, GridIronKing34 and 1 other person like this. -
As I recall, we scouted Martin heavily, and Smith played some Safety as well, so strategically I wonder if Ireland though we could make the trade back (and pick up Nalbone) and end up with Smith or Martin either way the Panthers went?
There were no other Cb's taken in between 56 and 61, Ireland is sharp, to me that is just the way their draft board played out. -
Maybe. Smith didn't play much safety, I'm not sure if he played barely any honestly, and Martin had a lot of experience there. I think they knew Smith would last and that's why they took him. He is the perfect cornerback when it comes to size that they want.
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The thing of that is, the Panthers had cut Ken Lucas in March, they needed a Cb more than they needed a Safety, head to head they took Martin over Smith.
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We need the height to battle WRers in our division and our CB spots were very thin before the draft. Maybe you could have reversed that order but I would have definitely picked a CB and from what I hear S.Smith is the real deal. A little raw because of flopping from WR to CB but talented.
I'd have stuck with the pick. -
That is what makes the trade back so odd D-Dupree, why trade back when "your" guy is there and the Panthers just lost a starting Cb?
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that is odd. I might consider Kruger, I would still take S. Smith.
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Right but not all teams felt the same way as some of us do about Sean Smith. Some teams probably figured that his height could put him at an disadvantage and you read the quote earlier this off-season where some unspecified GM said that they were surprised Bill Parcells would pick a not so smart player.
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i still take sean smith there. i wanted him over vontea but not with the number 1 pick so it worked out well for me atleast. your right about the fo thinking martin too small. it's been public that we want big,physical corners and we got 2 of the best in that draft. we still wouldv'e went 2 corners in the draft as this will probly be j.allens last yr as a phin also i expect to not have another corner like eric green and at the time will allen hadn't been extended yet so that was 3 corners atleast we looked to be missing next yr. the smith pick was definately not a luxury pick..he just happened to fall to a great spot for us..a spot our fo knew he would be at thus letting them grab white with our first 2nd.
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That would be an interesting bit of insider type info Alen, Ireland dialed up Carolina and asked "who are you taking at #57? Your not taking Sean Smith are you?"
I've never heard of that happening before during a draft, typically teams keep the players they like close to the vest and they have little reason to facilitate another team's trade back.
That situation would be ripe for skulduggery and tomfoolery...:lol: -
Martin is 6-1 200 pds m ino, he is a large Cb.
Smith was BPA if luxury seems like a stretch. -
I just think they had a bunch of people rated about the same and would be happy with any of them. So trading down and picking up another pick is worth it.
I would still take Sean Smithalen1 likes this. -
IMO, thinking about who went were in the draft order, someone really fell in love with Sean Smith, but maybe Ireland wasn't as in love with the pick and risked losing him via trading back.
To me, that trade back screams "compromise" between say Ireland and Bowles via Sparano, and Alen could be "right" about the Panthers informing us who they were planning on taking as a form of quid pro quo, the Panthers leapt us to take Everette Brown at #43, could be some chatting went on between us and Carolina.
I'd take Smith as well, there are some more interesting players in the #56-#63 slots in this draft. -
i would guess that they had 2 targets at that spot, Martin and Smith ... and once Martin was gone - they did not want to risk not getting Smith. That would be the only logical explaination ... unless the team we traded with was known to want a CB and/or Smith -- just not a badly as we did.
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Sean Smith was the perfect pick at that spot.
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I wanted Smith at that spot, wouldn't change it.
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Sean Smith
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Not voting because I want Sean Smith, period.
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I wanted Sean Smith, earlier in fact, so I can't participate.
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sean smith is a not so smart player? i never heard that? or your talking about vontae davis?
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That comment was made in regards to Sean Smith; a GM questioned Smith's intelligence but I think what he was really questioning was Smith's skills. Smith is a raw player due to making a position change not too long ago. However he played very well at the college level and I think he has a very bright future.
As for intelligence on the field, I think Smith plays smarter than Vontae. -
Really? I'm a Sean Smith fan and there would have been no way I'd traded back for a crummy 5th round pick with Smith available.
To me his athleticism is amazing, and he seems like a sharp guy, to me he could really be a special, 10 yr type of player for the Dolphins and I can't wait to see him return a Int as he still has Wr type of moves.
as for Vontae Davis, there is nothing not to like about him, he's athletic, likes contact, has caused -0- problems and he was the best all around Cb prospect available in the first round, I like him a heck of alot more then Michael Jenkins.
BTW, I'm surprised you didn't give Paul Kruger a vote Alen, you really liked him in the predraft period. -
Really what? Sorry padre, I'm confused.
I like him a lot as well. He's impressive.
Respectfully disagree. Those blown coverages that he had in college are still in the back of my mind when he's brought up. I like Vontae but I'm not going to put that past him until he plays at a high level in Miami consistently.
Really? I think Jenkins is the smarter player and the one that's more of a consistent contributor in run support but I'm not sure he has the recovery speed that Vontae does. I also think Jenkins can play safety (at a high level to boot), I'm not sure I can say that about Vontae.
Still do really like him. :up:
I just didn't vote for him because I liked Sean Smith more. -
In re "not a smart player"
There is always a danger in comparison but he reminds me a bit of Ed Reed just in terms of the way he moves and plays, he looks like he is moving at a different speed then the players around him.
I've read about his measurables and have watched him play a bit and to me he is a bit raw, but has a ton of upside in his game, he got by on Athleticism in College and perhaps did not always have his head in the game, in Miami unless he is prepared, he won't play and he is competitive enough to desire to play so I don't see a problem there.
I don't really have a player to compare him to, he's a compact athlete who likes to tackle, but I haven't seen enough of his ball skills but I have seen his explosiveness and recovery speed.
Jenkins is a finished, polished player at this point in time Alen, his upside is what it is, Davis's physical skills make the difference between the two, Vontae can learn coverages, Jenkins can't run a 4.4/4.3 and I think Vontae is more physical then Jenkins is.
Should be fun comparing the two when we play NO this season.
What, no vote for him then...:pointlol:
All those mock drafts you spent with Kruger, the analysis, the story of being stabbed...mean nothing to you do they?
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Ah ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. :up:
Never thought of that.
I've always viewed as Sean Smith of a laid back guy, often because I see him in loose coverage slowly backpedaling and then attacking downhill. I'm trying to think of a comparison but I can't picture one at the moment.
Agreed.
I think he's got good ball skills. I just worry about him when he plays zone. What I've seen with him is that he loses the man that's behind him. I also think he could be more willing. I've seen him jogging around, I've seen him circling around the play, I've seen him stand and watch. That can't happen anymore. I remember a play against Ohio State. OSU quarterback Terrelle Pryor is flushed out of the pocket, scrambles right for about a good ten yards and the cuts it back across the middle of the field. While Pryor is in the process of cutting across mid-field, I see Vontae Davis showing up on the bottom left of the screen with a clear path and has a good shot at bringing down Pryor if he hustles, instead he jogs and Pryor gains another ten yards.
I think his upside is a bit underrated. I think New Orleans has a very quality player and I think there is nothing wrong with that. If he's a consistent performer, logging 4 interceptions yearly, logging time at safety (which he did at OSU too) but never makes the Pro Bowl, I think that's okay. I think players are rarely finished. The reason is because I think if you're willing to put in the work, you can always become better.
How physical is Davis going to be for us? If we're sitting back in zone coverage, he's not going to be jamming as often and in the Quarters coverage, he's not going to be really asked to make plays in run support so is his physicality a moot point? I think it may be but I could be wrong.
I'm not too worried about that. They'll put him in position to make plays and to make him a successful player. Just like they will do here with Vontae. I've seen both of them make the same mistakes in college but the respected coaching staffs will put those players in position to make plays by game planning to their strengths.
When he wants to be, I agree with you. However I've seen Jenkins play more bump and run than Davis at the college level. I've also seen him more willing in run support.
:lol:
:up:padre31 likes this. -
The thing about Vontae is his tackling, that makes him a bit more of a prospect then Jenkins is/was.
To me he should be on the slot Wr not back in Zone, if VD's tackling skills hold up though, Zone shouldn't be a problem for him, and the "key" for a young Cb coming to the NFL..double moves and peeking into the backfield I did not see him either get burned by double moves or lose track while peering into the backfield.
Those two things are sort of Cb death in the NFL, like a Qb who doesn't look off a Wr or throws late over the middle on a crossing route, a player cannot do that and be consistently successful in the NFL. -
Agree with you there. Even though I would say that both are good, consistent tackles, I think Vontae is a better one because Jenkins will sometimes take a very poor angle. Case and point - bowl game against Texas; watch Colt McCoy run for the touchdown in the fourth quarter (I think it was fourth). McCoy is flushed out of the pocket, hits the flats running, turns it up wide of the hashmarks on the right side of the field and Jenkins has a clear shot but over-pursues and McCoy puts a spin on him, before having a clear path to the end zone.
I think he can play with the number one and two wide receivers in the near future. I also think he can do it successfully. In regards to his tackling skills, they're definitely there, I hope I didn't poorly write my comments earlier. Davis can tackle, its just a matter of how often does he want to IMO.
Honestly, I only remember that happening with Vontae once off the top of my head. He got beat on zone coverage in which he peeked in the backfield, lost his man behind him and then recovered but the WR dropped the ball in the end zone so he was fortunate.
Completely agree.
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