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Sean Smith on his play.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NolePhin, Sep 5, 2010.

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  1. NolePhin

    NolePhin Look out for D-Bess

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    I think Sean will correct his minor mistakes and live up to some of the expectations we as fans have put on him. It seems like he knows exactly what he has to do to correct his mistakes, and if he is as passionate as he sounds and acts on the field, I think we got ourselves a really good CB in Sean Smith.

    http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/
     
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  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Kudos to saying what he did wrong but I'd prefer he just not talk about mistakes. Put it behind himself and just go out there and do better. You've got to have a short memory as a cornerback. He's got a lot of talent and I still don't think he's been as bad as some have said, but he does need to do better. He now knows that you can't turn your head until you're inphase with the wide receiver. That is taught to every cornerback in every NFL camp, every HS practice. He needs to know that stuff. However, I'm confident he'll learn it. He's still learning and he's starting. Him and Vontae have a lot to learn. Both guys have had struggles.
     
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  3. SF Dolfan

    SF Dolfan New Member

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    I would love to think that too, but I just don't. To me the bigger issue on that TD was he appeared to be in press coverage and gave Hurd a totally free release. Hurd got immediate separation and the play was timed perfectly. Considering that mistake within the 1st 5 yards, Smith actually stayed relatively close and almost recovered less the little glitch he mentioned. But you just can't let a guy off the line that easy. Or if it wasn't press and you do plan on letting a receiver streak down the field, you need way better route recognition and hip turn when you start running with him...
     
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  4. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Yeah. Saw the video interview of this one. They seem to have cleaned it up, as all I remember hearing was cursing and what I could only make out as the word "amberlamps"
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    SS24...Get your game right brother...focus in, and play the game like your 5 foot 10..
     
  6. SF Dolfan

    SF Dolfan New Member

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    The difference with Vontae, however, is that while he got burned just as much, he also made a number of big plays in coverage (picks) and he's really good in run support.

    Smith did not make those same kinds of plays in coverage and his run support... I just don't know. Couple his poor play with our weakness at free safety... it's my biggest concern going into the year. I have JB Brown flashbacks every time I see a pass in Smith's direction.


     
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  7. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    It was press-bail technique and Man-Free. Sean turned his head early. He is right, he was not inphase.
     
  8. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yeah, he hasn't made big plays but he doesn't allow a ton of completions. They both have their ups and downs IMO.

    True on Sean not being as good as Vontae in run support, but he has improved.
     
  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I took snapshots, here.

    Press-bail at the line, turns and runs, bumps the wide receiver with his hands, turns his head early and is a step behind. That does it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought the coverage on that TD was very good. It was only completed b/c it was a perfect pass. There is no defense for a perfect pass. If he covers well enough to force a perfect pass all year then I think we'll be very happy with his play. And while I agree that he turned his head back early, I actually prefer that he do that rather than turn too late, which I thought he did a few times last year.
     
  11. SF Dolfan

    SF Dolfan New Member

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    Thanks for the pics alen. I just think the bump was soft to the point of virtually non existent. If he slows Hurd down for even a split second, the timing is off and there's no TD. That play was timed PERFECTLY and the pass thrown PERFECTLY. You really can't defend against that at the time of the catch. You can, however, disrupt the receiver just enough at the line to throw that timing off. That's my point.

     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I want to see him be very physical at the LOS..Use your physical advantages when you can, and when it comes to his, getting his hands on the guy, and using your huge frame to impede the route.
     
  13. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Raf will stick up for Sean till the day he dies bless his heart. SS already admitted it was HIS fault. He got blown by at the line, was out ran, looked back too early and it resulted in a TD.

    I dont mean to hate on S Smith, but once in a while you need to step into reality.
     
  14. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The reality is that he was shoulder to shoulder with Hurd and that if the pass wasn't perfect it wouldn't have been completed.
     
  15. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Ok so there was no mistake made on that particular play? He didnt just mention his mistake himself? Were all seeing things?

    He got roasted on the play. It was a good pass yea, but that doesnt account for the fact he was too late in getting there. Do you remember the PI shortly after that play when they saw the blood in the water and went after him in coverage?

    Hes been a hot topic of discussion all around here and you continue to defend his every action. I want him to succeed too, but cmon. Stop acting like hes something great because of the stats you've read.

    BTW look at Alens 2nd screenshot, thats not shoulder to shoulder.
     
  16. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Sometimes you gotta step back and admit that the other guy just made a great play.
     
  17. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    On that play it was beautiful coverage up until the end he tried to just run under it when he needed to stick his hand up or jump and knock that ball away.
     
  18. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    That was not perfect coverage. Hes getting burned deep, and often enough for it to be a concern. Im not calling him a bust.

    Watch that play a few more times, and then the PI that follows, then the Roddy White play against the Falcons. I dont know what else to say...I hope he proves to be a solid #2 corner.
     
  19. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    He was not shoulder to shoulder. He was not in phase. He got beat because of a mistake on his part. He KNOWS he's not allowed to turn his head early and he did.
     
  20. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think he should be fine. Both of the guys are raw and both have technical flaws. Vontae doesn't always turn his head around, instead he tries to read eyes. I've seen him do that going back to his Illinois days. In zone, he does not always stay disciplined. For Sean, he's still learning cornerback. This will be his fourth year playing it and it's clear he hasn't picked up everything yet. Maybe he will, maybe he won't.

    I'm not sticking up for any single player, here. I'm just trying to look at it from a level headed view, which I'm not saying you aren't.
     
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  21. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This. I also though he had a chance to jump and knock the ball away, but he just never did.
     
  22. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    yep, and that is what irritates me the most about him. Great athlete but when it comes time for him to make the play his feet and hands appear to be stuck in elmers
     
  23. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How can you even ask that question when I specifically stated what I thought he did wrong on that play?

    And I don't base my analysis just on what I've read. That would be as silly as basing my analysis solely on a handful of plays that I see and ignoring the rest. I base my analysis on what I've read and what I've seen. Your analysis seems to be based on a system that ignores 95% of the plays since you don't see them and then becomes so biased that you can't even admit when a CB is shoulder to shoulder with a WR. If Smith or any CB has positioning like that all year then they will have a great season.

    And yes I saw the PI. I just don't agree it was a blood in the water thing. If it were then they would have targeted him repeatedly and that simply didn't happen.

    I've stated repeatedly that both Davis and Smith played poorly last year but they they have so much undeniable talent that you have to let them develop. I've only defended Smith against inaccurate representations that Davis played better last year. The fact of the matter is Davis was targeted more, beaten more and allowed more TDs last season despite starting fewer games.

    Most yardage allowed by CBs, 2009
    Player Rec. Yards TDs
    Derek Cox, Jaguars 64 951 8
    William James, Lions 64 906 9
    Vontae Davis, Dolphins 46 902 7
    Ike Taylor, Steelers 63 899 3
    Chris Johnson, Raiders 47 857 5
    Bryant McFadden, Cardinals 61 803 3
    Nick Harper, Titans 58 799 5
    Domonique Foxworth, Ravens 53 772 4
    William Gay, Steelers 63 745 2
    Ronald Bartell, Rams 52 736 5
    Sean Smith, Dolphins 35 729 4
    Source: Stats Inc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
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  24. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    :up: I agree with you. Im not hating on him. I personally think Vontae has shown alot more ability, and think he has alot more potential. But we all need, and want Sean Smith to succeed as well.

    Feels like people choose sides of one or the other, and tend to favor them when watching what has unfolded. Theres no way I can agree with it only being competed because it was a "perfect pass".

    I know I seem to be piling on, but if you notice Hurd had the whole outside cleared if the pass happened to be thrown there. The ball didnt have to be thrown in that EXACT spot. Sean wasnt using the sideline as his friend while escorting him downfield in this case.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I think that if Smith didn't go for the interception and went for the ball he would have had a better chance of breaking up the pass.

    Also he could have pulled his hand down on the ball after the ball was completed and knocked the ball out that way.

    The pass was a perfect pass, however Smith could have made a better decision and break up that play
     
  26. Phinatic19

    Phinatic19 New Member

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    Sean Smith sucks and keeps getting burnt... no excuses there, guy just sucks and to down Vontae and say they both aren't great is just too much.

    Vontae has started in less games yet had better stats last year and wasn't burnt by Hurd or Roddy White. enough said.

    Davis >>>>> Smith
     
  27. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see Hurd's right shoulder by Smith's left shoulder. That is shoulder to shoulder. And he turned his head early which I stated was a mistake, but IMO it is a greater mistake to turn your head late, which he did too often last season.
     
  28. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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  29. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think what separates Davis from Smith is that Davis is a lot more explosive athlete. He's gifted going downhill, better short area quickness and he's got quality straight line speed. I also feel that he is not as tight as Sean in the hips. However, the problem is that he has mental lapses and whilst you would think that he's improved on him, in my opinion, he has not. He's had the same mental lapses dating back to his college days at Illinois.

    I watched a lot of his snaps and broke them down at Illinois [not saying my opinion is better than anyone elses here; we all have eyes and can see what is going on]. He had a lot of technical struggles and he gave up yardage too. The only reason a lot of teams didn't test him in college was because he was so athletically gifted.

    Now, if you go back to his college games and you watch him against Minnesota's Eric Decker, you'll see his struggles. Decker was one of the best route runners in the country when he was at Minnesota and he knew how to work cornerbacks. He gave fits to athletically talented guys like Vontae Davis and he gave fits to very disciplined cornerbacks like Syd'Quan Thompson, who was pretty damn good at California. Decker knew how to work Davis because he was superior mentally and he knew Vontae was not far along when it came to technique.

    Vontae came to the NFL and he was asked to face wide receivers who knew things like Decker did and could do things like Decker did. It's one of the reasons Vontae has struggled. He has not picked it up yet mentally. He may or may not but we can hope that he does. He's got a ton of talent.

    When Sean was coming out, he was fresh off a pretty damn good performance against Julio Jones of Alabama. Sean was playing a lot of man in college and that's what he ended up doing here too for us last season when he got confused, as he noted.

    In coverage at Utah, he used his long arms to his advantage. He disrupted the pass catchers eyes often because he stuck his hands in the air and the pass catcher could not locate the ball. He also showed that he did not have much technique. He would jam at the line and whilst it was decent, it could have been better because his hand placement could have been better IMO. He did not jolt wide receivers off the line, however he did disrupt them.

    When he was in pass coverage, instead of doing what they call a baseball turn into the ball, he would completely rotate his body at times on routes. For example, there was one play in the game against Alabama in which Julio Jones appeared to have run a corner route if I remember correctly. Julio had a short split, as usual on corner routes, and went upfield. Sean trailed him then Julio planted and cut outside toward the sidelines and that's when Sean screwed up and ended up completely rotating his body in a circle to get to the sideline. Of course, he ended up getting there late and Julio had the catch. If he had done a baseball turn, he could have possibly broken up the pass.

    On the flip side, there was a 9 route ran by Julio Jones in that game in which Sean did a great job locating the ball in the air and swatting it away. Everyone thought Julio had a touchdown but the ball was swatted.

    Later in that game, Sean was lined up on the slot cornerback. He was playing as the nickel and he missed the jam at the line, the wide receiver runs a post down the seam and toward the end zone. Sean shows very good recovery speed, ends up getting his hands up at the last second and disrupting the pass catcher because of his length. The ball was not completed.


    In college, Sean was not great against the run and that translated to the NFL in his first year. He struggled at times but other times, he showed potential. He got off of blocks from the wide receivers and he would turn back inside to take down the ball carrier. He's now improved, albeit he is still tackling high at times but at least he's sticking his nose in there. As a blitzer, he was not awful either. I watched him force a fumble on a strip-sack against Alabama.

    In the end, they both got potential that's off the charts IMO. The key is getting them to play consistently and that starts by correcting their technique and then their mental mistakes.

    It's tough to debate that, in my opinion. Yes, he should have used the sideline and he could have done better by jolting the wide reciever harder but Hurd was about 5 yards away from the sideline from the start. He lined up and gave himself a lot of cushion. He did get back on top of the route, which Sean should not allow, but I think there was a lot of room for Hurd to work with. There were faults in Sean's game there too, I won't argue that, but I think Hurd also did a good job there.

    I think people who keep calling for Sean to start jamming everyone may be a bit ahead of the game because it seems to me he's not comfortable yet jamming pass catchers. He just hasn't done a lot of it, which is why I'm assuming that. I've seen him get caught lunging before and that's because he's just forgetting basic rules. You jam with your feet, not with your hands.
     
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  30. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    No, he has to be side by side. He is clearly a step behind. Turning your head late or early is a mistake. You can't do either.

    There's no way around this. He did not do his job right.
     
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  31. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Being side by side defines whether you're in phase or out of phase. Being shoulder to shoulder simply means whether either of your shoulders is by either of is shoulders.

    And while I agree that either turning early or late is a mistake (since I'm now repeating it for the third time in this thread), I stated my opinion that turning your head late is a worse mistake since in my experience it results in a completion or a penalty more often..
     
  32. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    He's clearly behind him in the image on page one, no?
     
  33. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Wow Alen thats some serious info there. You definitly know your history of both.

    You summed it up fine. They both have outstanding talents. Their history can only provide you with so much of a glimpse, but you seem to be right on target.

    Really, it doesnt matter who is better, as long as they both live up to their potential. Right now imo S Smith has a longer trip to make, and has a lower ceiling of talent.

    If Vontae puts it all together tho watch out, he will be a machine.
     
  34. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  35. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, he's out of phase there so he couldn't become the WR. But he's not in bad position otherwise unless it's a near perfect pass. He still has his left shoulder right next to Hurd's right shoulder. If he was in that position on every pass thrown his way this coming season then he would knock down or intercept 90% of the passes since very few are that perfect.
     
  36. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I respect your opinion a great amount, mate, you know I do, but I respectfully disagree here. The only reason his shoulder is with Hurd's is because Hurd has turned around as well. However, Hurd is stiill in front of him and that's why the ball was able to be placed outside and in front of Sean. If Sean takes an extra step and then turns his head, he probably has a chance to make an interception or at least a PBU.
     
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  37. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I respect your opinion as well. I know it's always thought out and based on more than most. And I don't disagree with anything you said here. I just don't believe that being in that position is all that bad. I would still call that good coverage (I'm not saying perfect). And I still believe that if Smith was in that position against every pass that he would knock or pick the ball 90% of the time.
     
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  38. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Im not ignoring the stats youve shown me. I see Davis below Smith. That doesnt show the whole story. One broken tackle, one "perfect throw", one blown saftey assignment can skew your perception of the final product.

    I think you use that list to a fault. Hell, if Ted Ginn tipped 6 more balls in the air for Sharper to intercept what would the stats show?

    Live and die by that set of stats if you want to, I choose not to. Yes, you can derive crucial undeniable info from some stats, but in certain cases stats are misleading.
     
  39. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe Sean did make up a tad more ground on Hurd between Alen's snapshot and the actual catch, but obviously not enough to make the play. He was really close, and IMO if he had taken a leap at the ball he may have deflected it. Bottom line, play not made.
     
  40. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow! I just read a Skolnick twitter that J. Allen is going to start in place of Smith next Sunday.
     

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