With Clemons on a one year deal, should the Dolphins have a look at Carroll at safety? How do his tackling skills look?
I didn't say that I know he'd be a better safety. He has never played safety so I can't KNOW. All I'm saying is that he can't really play that position any worse than he has played the corner position.
So that's two things you can't possibly be sure about... These are professionals at the very top of their game. Only 0.001% of people have the skills to even step onto that field. Far fewer have the skills to play multiple positions at this level. Lets all just assume, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the position someone is playing is the one best suited for them.
Like a pack of rabid dogs. These poor new guys come, and have no idea. Either one adapts and improves their arguments, or they are pounced on repeatedly.
I have no idea why he is even still on the roster. He has no ball skills as a NFL player and he is a below average CB. I don't see him being any better as a safety in the NFL. If Ireland opts to use a couple of his draft picks to upgrade the secondary, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Carroll is cut by the Dolphins before the regular season begins.
Well, Clemons is just a mediocre S, at best. What is the difference of having a mediocre CB move to S versus playing the mediocre S we have at that spot ?? About the biggest difference is that it's possible, not probable but possible that Clemons improves as a S....I don't see Carroll improving as either a S or a CB...
Because Clemons has played safety in college and in the NFL. Carroll can hardly play CB in the NFL. Why would anyone really think that he would be a better safety than Clemons? Personally I think Clemons is much better safety in the NFL than Carroll is a CB. I have wondered for the last two years why Carroll is still playing in the NFL. Carroll remaining on the Dolphins only shows how weak the secondary for the Dolphins has been in recent years. Hopefully with the addition of Grimes and a few draft picks being used to upgrade the secondary, Carroll will finally be released and he can find out if any other NFL team is willing to take a chance on him.
The only corner we have that should be moved to safety is Richard Marshall. He played very well there in 2011 when he was there for half a season.
Rereading what I wrote, I worded it wrongly. I wasn't implying that we should move Carroll to S. What I was trying to say is that Clemons is a mediocre S...so if we move Carroll, we likely have 2 mediocre safeties at that position....leave Carroll where he's at if he even makes the team... I agree with you that he's on the roster because our secondary is just that weak on talent...
Clemons isn't mediocre, he's a dependable safety that just isn't a playmaker... a guy you can upgrade but won't hurt the team if you don't.
Nolan Carroll in his first extensive playing time in 2012, ranked as a middle tier corner. Out of 116 corners who played at least 25% of their team snaps, he ranked 54th in lowest passer rating into his coverage. In coverage snaps per reception he ranked tied with Sean Smith at 57th with 10.1. He ranked 47th in least yards allowed per coverage snap of out 116 corners with 1.2. Now, you can like him, hate him, call him crap, whatever. But those rankings put him squarely in the middle or slightly above in 3 very meaningful measurements. BTW, in his 53 coverage snaps with Miami last season, Dimitri Patterson allowed a paltry 0.51 yards per snap. Call him crap all you want, but that is a darned low number, so you'd be basically talking out of your ***. His coverage snaps per reception were 17.7 which is also excellent.
Exactly. He ranks very highly in lowest passer rating into his coverage, etc. It's hard to make many plays when QBs won't often test you. Among all safeties who played at least 25% of their team's snaps, Clemons ranked 20th of 91 in yards allowed per coverage snap with an excellent 0.35. He was 11th in coverage snaps per target, at 22.5, which tells you teams seldom threw at him. In coverage snaps per reception he was 17th at 39.3 Jones ranked 27th, 50th, and 33rd respectively. In passer rating into their coverage though, Jones allowed the 5th lowest in the league and Clemons allowed the 14th lowest out of 88 safeties.
Patterson really flashed tight coverage ability underneath.. Why is it that every number, stat I see on Sean smith, reflects exactly what I thought about his game..
Saw this post and couldn't resist commenting. 1st. What has Carroll showed to say he's a potential Safety? 2nd. On my 1st question. What makes him better than Clemons who I define as "serviceable" and not a major weakness at Safety? 3rd. Our depth at CB even with Grimes added plus a drafted rookie still makes us a ? mark at CB regarding depth. Safety position though not solid (Jones is solid btw so its isnt the one Safety position) isn't justifiable by throwing Carroll out there. This reminds me of the Jason Allen roundabout. Let him learn and improve at CB
Not to put words into the original poster's mouth, but I think his post may have been more in the spirit of "Player A is not good at his position, and instead of cutting him, why not give him a last look at another position in case we can get something out of him there?" Like trying Ernest Wilford at TE before giving up on him. I don;t think he was expecting Carroll to be a good safety, so much as trying to see if there is any value there. I don't really think I would move Carroll to saftey. He has been competent at corner, but his issue has been the lack of starters in front of him has forced him to play higher on the depth chart than his talents allow. As a fourth CB he is good depth. I don;t think Carroll is oon the brink of release, not a slavage-project. He is fine where he is fo now. But, who knows, maybe he would be a decent FS. He has the intelligence to read the offense, line people up, diagnose the play. He gets into more trouble with sudden change of direction turning hips on short routes, which happens a lot at CB, compared to having it all in front of him as he would at safety. At safety he could diagnose and drive forward. My concerns at safety, with his skillset, would be 1) tackling 2) angles 3) judging the deep ball in the air. If we draft two CBs, and keep Marshall or Patterson maybe Nolan gets pushed down the depth chart and you consider the move rather than cutting him... but even then, I'd rather see Jimmy Wilson with reps at FS.
Now, if we are to treat this as a novelty thread (which was not the intention) then I nominate moving either Javorskie Lane or Michael Egnew to Safety. The former, because he would be a hard hitter. The latter, because he needs to learn to love contact. Wait. That's still too much logic. I nominate Paul Soliai at FS... Fat Safety.
1) tackling 2) angles 3) judging the deep ball in the air. Nuff said. Thats the Safety position to a tee. I played Safety as well as Cornerback.When you question basically the whole 3 basic expectations at Safety i will say.......no. In fact No!!! Let Carroll improve at his given position. Seriously.
I don't think there is a lot of reason they moved Carroll. He played decently last season. If anyone is getting moved anywhere, it's Jimmy Wilson. He's getting Jason Allen'd, it seems. He was a safety originally whom Sparano moved to corner, Philbin moved him back to safety than at the end of pre-season back to corner. Now the Dolphins have a glut of cornerbacks. Richard Marshall isn't likely to get moved either. They didn't re-sign Chris Clemons to a one-year deal as a starter to move an experienced veteran there. They did it for insurance and flexibility if they choose to draft a younger player.
Thank you. This is exactly what the thread was intended to be about. I was hoping to see what people thought of his tackling ability, and if he had shown any other intangibles or abilities that might indicate he could play the position. I was in no way suggesting that he start! There is a roster spot open at safety unless you consider Kelcie McCray a shoe in, I don't. Carroll has the size and athletic ability, two things Jimmy Wilson never had. I have no idea what some of you guys see in Jimmy Wilson. I would expect him to be cut before Carroll. Carroll did have 53 tackles in limited snaps last year, but I wasn't able to find a stat on missed tackles. Yes, I was kinda just saying, it looks like the Dolphins will draft a CB, perhaps high. Then, do you leave Carroll as a number 5 or 6 CB or do you take a look at him in OTA's and maybe even camp at FS? Or do you just cut him?
Philbin is a big Kelcie McCray fan. Says a lot when an undrafted gets injured and they don't injury waive them. Carroll is a middle of the pack CB who will never ever be moved to safety. He's perfectly fine as a depth 4-5 guy and better then most teams 4-5 guy. Chances are they won't be sitting put at safety. All those positions that got 1 year deals are likely to be drafted. TE/G/S.
Pro Football Focus has a stat called Run Stop Pct. A player's impact in the running game is sometimes erroneously based on the total volume of tackles made. However, firstly, does that number include tackles on passing plays and, more importantly, did those tackles really count? Stops constitute a "loss" for the offense so this table shows the percentage of stops per snap played only in run defense. Among all corners who played a down last season in the NFL, our best corner in Run Stop Pct was Wilson at 5.0% which ranked him 13th of 136 corners. RJ Stanford was 29th with a 3.3%. Nolan Carroll was the next best with a 3.2% which ranked 31st. Richard Marshall was 43rd at 2.6%. Sean Smith was 117th at 0.8% So it appears all of our corners other than Smith played the run in the top half of all the corners in the league. Wilson was especially good. In 2011, Marshall led the league in run stop pct among corners who played in at least 25% of their team's snaps at 6.3% Brent Grimes was 24th out of 84, at 2.2%. IMO, Carroll should remain at corner. Right now, I'd consider him the 4th corner, and teams often carry 6 corners and 10 DBs total. At least 9 anyway. 6 corners and 4 safeties isn't uncommon. Or 5, 4 and a swing DB who can play either. Sort of like Wilson has been for us. IMO, if we draft a couple of corners and it bumps Carroll to the 5th or 6th corner, that is some darned good corner depth.
They're in a position where they still need to address the CB situation in the draft. Nolan Carroll was not a good Corner last year. Perhaps he'll be alright as a Nickel corner but as a shut down corner he's not that great. That being said I've read that they're moving towards more of a zone system which means the likes of a Sean Smith may not have been that important anyway. I still think they should take a CB first. Jake Long was not very good last year and the offense was still competitive. Their biggest weakness was the fact that no one was open not that Tannehill was getting sacked all the time. They're secondary on the otherhand was very pathetic and made one of the best Front 7's in the NFL(made even better this off-season) less effective.
Thats an extremely picky argument. You say he's bad as a shut down corner...but theres only a handful of those in the league, PERIOD. Carroll is what everyone is saying - serviceable. He's young and may still improve. Hes quality depth, and may be a little more in time. To knock any corner for "not being a shut down corner" is about as silly as knocking a lineman because he can't swat balls like JJ Watt or grab a jump ball like Megatron.
Perhaps that's true and a new system might help him. I still believe the need more to improve their secondary and Grimes is just the start. It takes their secondary from horrible to aight. It's their biggest weakness at this point, that's all I'm saying. BTW I disagree with the premise of the thread, he shouldn't be moved to Safety. Let him compete with a high draft pick like Davis and Smith were.
