1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

SI: Cameron on Gase, RT17 & The Offense

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I pm'ed him the gist of what was told to us.
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Its not an excuse. Its a reason.
     
    resnor likes this.
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,488
    8,397
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yes, because reasons are excuses.

    What happens if the pass protection ends up abysmal again this year?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  4. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    7,902
    7,580
    113
    Dec 9, 2012
    So what I'm gathering from this thread is the truth is neither black or white, and is rather somewhere in between..

    Crazy thought. Must be cold at those poles everyone is sitting at.
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    8,697
    10,251
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Then I predict it'll be used as an excuse.

    Personally, I prefer a QB that can rise above his circumstances. And in general I prefer to take responsibility than saying I can't succeed because my environment. People can change their environment to some degree you know and that's true for QB's.

    Anyway, for me this is absolutely the last year I'll entertain the idea Tannehill should be our QB if he doesn't produce at an above average level. Doesn't have to be elite but I want to think of our QB as a reason we win and not just another player on the team because I think it's MUCH harder to win by getting all the other pieces right in this salary cap era than getting the QB position right and having some deficiencies elsewhere.
     
    roy_miami likes this.
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Which is specifically why I've asked time and time and time again, what QB has ever rose above a bad oline, no commitment to the run and not being allowed to audible.

    Until you people provide examples of those QBs than you're expecting Thill to do something never done before.

    Why is this so difficult?
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Because it is a non sequitor.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
    roy_miami and Fin-O like this.
  8. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    8,697
    10,251
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Let's just say I think it's untenable to suggest if we had one of the elite QB's during the last 4 years that we wouldn't have made the playoffs at least twice, all other things being equal.

    Point is, it's much harder to win the SB the way the Ravens did with Dilfer (Tannehill's way better than Dilfer, but the point remains) than the way most SB's are being won nowadays, namely with above average QB's.

    I mean.. Dilfer became the first SB winning QB that was released after a SB win!! Shows you the Ravens thought they needed to improve there too. And he didn't make any major errors in the playoffs that year.
     
    roy_miami likes this.
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    No the **** it isn't.

    If Thill should be able to rise above these handcuffs than who else ever has?

    For god's sake what is wrong with you people?

    If he had no arms and no legs, would you guys expect him to produce like Marino?
     
    resnor likes this.
  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    It defies the odds of probability that an NFL QB could be a victim of circumstance for 5 consecutive seasons and multiple coaching staffs.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
    Fin-O and cbrad like this.
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    It absolutely is a non sequitor because your argument inherently absolves his role in anything. You are essentially saying the handcuffs in place had nothing to do with his own abilities.

    How many great QBs didnt earn the trust of their coaches to audible? Name them.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
    roy_miami and jdang307 like this.
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Not one thing to do with what I said.
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    It does not. That's horse****.

    What you guys are suggesting is that he should be able to do the impossible. That is ridiculous.
     
    resnor likes this.
  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Gaining the faith of your coaches and the ability to audible is not impossible.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,488
    8,397
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Anyone who thinks that the anti-Tannehill posters are reasonable in their arguments, and that they actually want Tannehill to succeed, should read through the last two pages. It's clear that is not what they want.

    Basically, the sentiment is what it was four years ago: if we don't have an elite QB then we should draft QB first every year until we have an elite QB.

    But I haven't seen any of them be honest and advocate for that.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    10,971
    10,694
    113
    Sep 28, 2015

    I dont think even the harshest posters who hold Ryan accountable WANT him to keep playing at an average level.

    Just as I would hope some of you guy's would take an ugly 10-7 W with Ryan being average over him throwing for 450 yards and 3 TDS in a loss. (I think...)
     
    Finster likes this.
  17. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    8,697
    10,251
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Every poster here wants Tannehill to succeed. You're putting words in people's mouths if you think otherwise.

    The difference between you and them is where the threshold is for saying we should look elsewhere. No one knows what the optimum threshold is so that's opinion, but we all want Tannehill to succeed.
     
    Finster and Fin-O like this.
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    One guy. Lazor. Of course he's not a fault. Its Thill.

    Let me throw your won logic at you....whose getting paid more, Lazor or Thill?

    And you're still ignoring the very simple concept....NO ONE HAS SUCCEEDED UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
     
  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    10,971
    10,694
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Nick Foles posted outstanding numbers with an OL that allowed more pressures than last years Dolphins, ran the ball 38% of the time and with a similar staff unable to change plays at the LOS.

    Dont fall for the false narratives, its already been dropped in the water and disappeared.

    He has been an average QB with bad surroundings. We NEED better surroundings and we NEED a better Ryan. Really is THAT straight forward.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Aaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddd before anyone tries to post the lie they keep spreading (because I'm sure its coming) ....Foles had a bad oline, MAY have not been allowed to audible, and his team ran the ball for the 4th most attempts (1st in yardage) in the league. Miami ran it the fewest last year and and close to the fewest the year before that.

    2013 Philly, ran the ball 500 times (4th)
    2014 Miami, ran the ball 399 times (22nd)
    2015 Miami, ran the ball 344 times (32nd)

    So of the 3 requirements, Foles had:

    - Bad oline, check
    - not allowed to audible, don't know
    - team didn't run the ball, no check.

    At best 2 of the 3 requirements. Still doesn't apply.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Im not saying that is the case. I am merely pointing out how your question is a non sequitor.

    A possible answer to your question is that the QB made his OL look worse than it was, and never led his coaches to believe he was capable of audibling. The fact that your question inherently implies neither of those to be the case.

    To illustrate the point - ask yourself how many great QBs werent allowed to audible. It is just as easy to argue that Tannehill not being allowed to audible is a function of his own abilities as much as it is the coaches'.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
    Rock Sexton and roy_miami like this.
  22. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    10,971
    10,694
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    38% called run plays VS 34% called run plays...

    And he did it with a worst OL, so lets be adults and not pretend that because they called running plays 4.5 more times in 100 play calls makes the difference. Thats laughable.

    Class is over.
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Ive absolutely advocated drafting QBs. It is the most valuable position in sports, and the trade market is rather robust. In fact, some of the best teams in the league with well established QBs draft QBs.

    Im not sure why anyone would be offended at such an idea, considering how widely used it is as a strategy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
    roy_miami likes this.
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Lazor is the ONLY guy that didn't let him audible. How many great QBs was Lazor the OC?
     
    resnor likes this.
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    14,488
    8,397
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    And Foles having one good season doesn't make him a successful QB.
     
    Shane Falco and Fin D like this.
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Im not suggesting Lazor was right to do so. Merely acknowledging the possibility exists.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    We've all seen more from Thill that points to him being an excellent QB than we seen anything that points towards Lazor being an excellent OC.
     
    Shane Falco likes this.
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Philbin gave him the ability the audible. and then took it away. Philbin was a crap coach. But for some reason, felt the need to take it away.
     
  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Agreed. Doesn't really change the fact that your question was a non sequitor. You removed any chance of the circumstances you've cited being in part due to Tannehills own ability.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Stop.

    You're wrong.

    Its a legit question because you want Thill to something no one has ever done. What you want is as ridiculous as a Rodgers to win 6 SBs in a row. No QB has ever done it.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Lazor took it away.
     
  32. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  33. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015
    Luckily you have no say. Except in Madden. And I'm sure you lose there.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    10,971
    10,694
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    If we have NO CLUE if (B) exists how can we say with such certainty that no-one has "ever" accomplished something with (B) in it?

    Sounds silly to me.
     
    Rock Sexton likes this.
  35. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    8,697
    10,251
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Never played Madden.

    But what I said about SB winners is true. Just look at the QB's of recent SB winning teams. Since Brad Johnson won it with the Bucs in the 2002 season, you've had Brady win it 3 times, Peyton and Eli Manning both win it twice, Roethlisberger twice, and Wilson, Rodgers, Brees and Flacco once. Even understanding Peyton's last one was due to the defense, that's 13 years of elite or above average QB's on the SB winning team.

    So yeah in this era you are not very likely to win a SB with just an average QB and a solid surrounding cast. That's not Madden, that's reality.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    It cant be legit unless you actually believe Tannehill has had 0 influence over his circumstances. At this point youre on record with that.

    How many great QBs werent allowed to audible?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  37. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

    1,385
    560
    113
    Oct 11, 2013
    I would not agree with this.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    No it doesn't.

    That makes no sense. No QB is perfect and my logical and simple doesn't imply that Thill is. Every QB is flawed. That is a given.

    You're literally scratching at anything you can to argue against the very simple notion.
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    43,990
    21,652
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    So then name the great QBs that haven't been allowed to audible.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,682
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    If there aren't any....whose argument does that help....yours or mine?
     

Share This Page