SI.com 2012 Draft Re-do:

My concern with that is... what do we do with Kevin Burnett? He was one of the best 4-3 OLBs last year, and yet.. he's being BENCHED? REALLY?

Kuechly was the guy I wanted..even if I cannot spell his name..:lol:

Dude clearly didn't look very much at these players actual performance if he thinks Martin should have gone at 18 overall based on his atrocious year last year. He was picked exactly where he should have been, played liked it, and like most second rounds, you hope he develops and plays better his second season.

"KingMotion wrote:

List Invalidation: Jonathan Martin moves UP to the 18th pick

Precisely.

Martin looked like a steal on paper, but turned out to be a Runtime Error.

As I'm one of the few JMartin fans, I thought he did fine.

Not #18 overall fine, but about as well as I expected him to play as an under developed physically as he was.

"padre31 wrote:

As I'm one of the few JMartin fans, I thought he did fine.

Not #18 overall fine, but about as well as I expected him to play as an under developed physically as he was.

you expected him to be one of the worst tackles in the entire league?

"LBsFinest wrote:

you expected him to be one of the worst tackles in the entire league?

From my pov, he was far from the worst tackles in the league.

He played better than Jake Long imo, he showed good quickness, good ability to make up for getting beat off of the line, did not see to many Rookie mistakes like false starts and holding.

"padre31 wrote:

From my pov, he was far from the worst tackles in the league.

He played better than Jake Long imo, he showed good quickness, good ability to make up for getting beat off of the line, did not see to many Rookie mistakes like false starts and holding.

this is the 2nd time I've seen you make this statement and it's completely false. like i said before, if Long played as bad or worse than Jon Martin, not one single dolphins fan on the planet would want him back, and Miami wouldn't even CONSIDER paying him anywhere near his asking price. Long was far from his prior elite self but in no way, shape, or form was he as bad as Martin, who sucked on the right and the left side. Martin gave up almost 5X as many hurries as Jake Long dude.

I'm not ready to give up on the kid because we've seen tackles struggle mightily their first year and then eventually blossom into good players (Duane Brown, Bryan Bulaga, Anthony Davis etc) ... but Martin needs to improve significantly just to become a decent tackle.

*yawn*

Gotta love the haters. Same bullcrap they spewed during Carey's rookie year and he was solid for us for many years.

FYI Mike Pouncey was a negative rated player to his rookie year and made significant strides in year 2.

"VanDolPhan wrote:

*yawn*

Gotta love the haters. Same bullcrap they spewed during Carey's rookie year and he was solid for us for many years.

FYI Mike Pouncey was a negative rated player to his rookie year and made significant strides in year 2.

Yea lets all assume because a few players improved after bad rookie season that Martin will do the same. Also, Pouncey did NOT have a bad first year.

Also spare me with this hater bull****. Martin was bad last year plain and simple.

"Ray Lucas wrote:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130207/2012-nfl-draft-redo/?sct=hp_t12_a6&eref=sihp

Tannehill moving up to #5... Awesome! Look at #18 though... Interesting to say the least. I understand this isn't really anything of substance, though it's nice to see two Dolphins considered steals from last year's draft.

You failed to mention that Wilson moved past Tannehill on this list. Wilson had a much more productive year than Tannehill. What would have been great is if the Dolphins had selected Kuechly with the eight pick in the draft and Wilson with their second round pick. This would have been more of an upgrade to the overall team.

As far as Martin being a first round pick. He was average at best and I don't ever see him developing into anything more than a very mediocre offensive lineman in the NFL.

"Patssuck wrote:

Yea lets all assume because a few players improved after bad rookie season that Martin will do the same. Also, Pouncey did NOT have a bad first year.

Also spare me with this hater bull****. Martin was bad last year plain and simple.

I'd spare you if you didn't retort like a hater ;p FYI Pouncey was rated negatively by PFF his rookie season. Unlike you I don't speak from my butt. I also gave you 2 examples from this team alone. How about Duane Brown who was rated pretty much as badly as Martin is now whose now one of the best tackles in the game.

The simple fact is that rookie centers and tackles do struggle in their first year. Hence why such a fuss is made when guys come in and hold their own or look like studs early on. There is a reason they say it takes 3 years to properly evaluate a draft class. Guys start off raw and grow. Other guys start off strong and fade. Pouncey was a -1.9 for his rookie year...but lauded for taking on the tough challenge of a rookie center. Now he's a whopping 17.6.

With Martin a lot of it had to do with strength. An offseason in a strength building program will do him wonders. If he comes into camp and is outta shape..then jump on him. Also our OL will look better as Tannehill gets better and as he gets better weapons to work with. The ball will come out more quicker.

Otherwise it's just typical rookie pains.

"VanDolPhan wrote:

I'd spare you if you didn't retort like a hater ;p FYI Pouncey was rated negatively by PFF his rookie season. Unlike you I don't speak from my butt. I also gave you 2 examples from this team alone. How about Duane Brown who was rated pretty much as badly as Martin is now whose now one of the best tackles in the game.

The simple fact is that rookie centers and tackles do struggle in their first year. Hence why such a fuss is made when guys come in and hold their own or look like studs early on. There is a reason they say it takes 3 years to properly evaluate a draft class. Guys start off raw and grow. Other guys start off strong and fade. Pouncey was a -1.9 for his rookie year...but lauded for taking on the tough challenge of a rookie center. Now he's a whopping 17.6.

With Martin a lot of it had to do with strength. An offseason in a strength building program will do him wonders. If he comes into camp and is outta shape..then jump on him. Also our OL will look better as Tannehill gets better and as he gets better weapons to work with. The ball will come out more quicker.

Otherwise it's just typical rookie pains.

I agree with most of your points. I disagree that saying he had a bad seasons makes anyone a hater. I disagree that it is a forgone conclusion that he will get MUCH better.

"jw3102 wrote:

You failed to mention that Wilson moved past Tannehill on this list. Wilson had a much more productive year than Tannehill. What would have been great is if the Dolphins had selected Kuechly with the eight pick in the draft and Wilson with their second round pick. This would have been more of an upgrade to the overall team.

As far as Martin being a first round pick. He was average at best and I don't ever see him developing into anything more than a very mediocre offensive lineman in the NFL.

I'll take Tannehill over Wilson all day. And I'm a big fan of Wilson, was rooting for him to succeed all year. But I think Tannehill will end up being the better QB, even though Wilson was more productive in his first year. Both are gunna be great though. So glad we sacked up and took a QB from this class. It's gunna be a special one...

Fireland!! How come he didn't have the #1 and #2 picks up there? He sucks!!

Way to reactionary to think Jonathan Martin is a bust or not even a very good football player. He swapped positions in the middle of the season and if you think playing left tackle is the same as playing right tackle then you are wrong. Martin played fair in 2012 but I expect him to play much better with a full season on the left side.

"KingMotion wrote:

List Invalidation: Jonathan Martin moves UP to the 18th pick

He also wrote that Quinton Coples could play 3-4 OLB...

I don't see how Andrew Luck can be #1 on his merits relative to the performances of RGIII and Wilson.

"VanDolPhan wrote:

I'd spare you if you didn't retort like a hater ;p FYI Pouncey was rated negatively by PFF his rookie season. Unlike you I don't speak from my butt. I also gave you 2 examples from this team alone. How about Duane Brown who was rated pretty much as badly as Martin is now whose now one of the best tackles in the game.

The simple fact is that rookie centers and tackles do struggle in their first year. Hence why such a fuss is made when guys come in and hold their own or look like studs early on. There is a reason they say it takes 3 years to properly evaluate a draft class. Guys start off raw and grow. Other guys start off strong and fade. Pouncey was a -1.9 for his rookie year...but lauded for taking on the tough challenge of a rookie center. Now he's a whopping 17.6.

With Martin a lot of it had to do with strength. An offseason in a strength building program will do him wonders. If he comes into camp and is outta shape..then jump on him. Also our OL will look better as Tannehill gets better and as he gets better weapons to work with. The ball will come out more quicker.

Otherwise it's just typical rookie pains.

This especially considering Martin came out as a junior. He will definitely mature more physically.

"Finsanity247 wrote:

Way to reactionary to think Jonathan Martin is a bust or not even a very good football player. He swapped positions in the middle of the season and if you think playing left tackle is the same as playing right tackle then you are wrong. Martin played fair in 2012 but I expect him to play much better with a full season on the left side.

Exactly, to hear some post one would think he was Marc Colombo Jr, in fact he looked fairly much like an avg NFL LT.

And no, I do not always agree with PFF based on what I watched for myself.

"LBsFinest wrote:

this is the 2nd time I've seen you make this statement and it's completely false. like i said before, if Long played as bad or worse than Jon Martin, not one single dolphins fan on the planet would want him back, and Miami wouldn't even CONSIDER paying him anywhere near his asking price. Long was far from his prior elite self but in no way, shape, or form was he as bad as Martin, who sucked on the right and the left side. Martin gave up almost 5X as many hurries as Jake Long dude.

I'm not ready to give up on the kid because we've seen tackles struggle mightily their first year and then eventually blossom into good players (Duane Brown, Bryan Bulaga, Anthony Davis etc) ... but Martin needs to improve significantly just to become a decent tackle.

I don't want to retain Jake Long, not at all, especially not for 10 million per yr.

Watched Jake just flat whiff far to often the last two years, did not see the same from Martin, very few Ole! missed blocks from him.

Thought he could be overpowered at times and played high a bit, otherwise, once again, he was fine.

"padre31 wrote:

I don't want to retain Jake Long, not at all, especially not for 10 million per yr.

Watched Jake just flat whiff far to often the last two years, did not see the same from Martin, very few Ole! missed blocks from him.

Thought he could be overpowered at times and played high a bit, otherwise, once again, he was fine.

Martin led the league in hurries. I'm not sure how you can look at that and claim that he was anything but bad. When he moved to left tackle his hurry rate actually went up.

He can still develop into a good player but I'm not sure how one can argue that he wasn't bad. If Tannehill had led the league in interceptions I think it would be pretty easy to claim that he'd had a bad season.

Lettuce be Reality. The list is B.S. because Russell Wilson isn't #2. I'll accept the argument that Luck still goes #1. But RGIII > Wilson? No. Wilson outplayed him and didn't have his knee held together by elmers glue, resulting in an ACL tear on a play where he didn't even get hit in the knee (the first time he got injured, not the playoffs).

I accept RGIII is a very talented kid, but despite his great play, I'm glad we didn't sell out the future of the franchise for him.

"Rhody Phins Fan wrote:

Martin led the league in hurries. I'm not sure how you can look at that and claim that he was anything but bad. When he moved to left tackle his hurry rate actually went up.

He can still develop into a good player but I'm not sure how one can argue that he wasn't bad. If Tannehill had led the league in interceptions I think it would be pretty easy to claim that he'd had a bad season.

Fairly easily, b/c I've been around long enough to know a Qb is also partially responsible for hurries.

Pure whiffs are what get a Qb killed, hurries are a product..at times..of the Qb not getting the ball out of their hand..

Which could also be a part of:

-the "slow" Wr corps being constantly complained about "not creating separation"
-For whatever reason, not using Reggie B as a check down valve..they tried to use Fasano
-Rook Qb slow to read the field quickly

I did however watch Jake Long get Tannehill killed on several occasions just on whiffs.

Nah, bang the pff drum..yep, those brilliant football minds