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Skip Bayless on Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by yoge, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What has Tannehill done? Throw for around 60% dating back to college except for the year they shrunk his passes to 3 yards meanwhile maintaining a 7.0 ypa

    What if, that's what Tanny is? A 7.0 ypa kind of guy?
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wilson, specifically, rode the best defense in the league for his first three years, along with a stout run game.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    its unreal how some evaluations on qbs are so compartmentalized...I swear if a player doesnt play a good game or throws a bad pass even, its like ''seeeeeeee, i told you those guys were overrated..

    its frustrating man, that you cant see how good luck or wilson is on their own...

    here's where you tell me that if ryan had the same players around them that luck and wilson have had he would of accomplished the same levels of play and team accomplishments..
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol, ok so because luck is having a bit of a down year to start this season your gonna chalk it up as overrated.? wow..

    Luck is every bit as good as he was projected to be, hes still a young player going thru experiences, learning and winning as he goes, same with wilson..i think you all forget about that...ryan is older than both of them..
     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    DJ, I'm pointing out, simply, that Wilson had a ton of help from his TEAM. Why do you want to deny that? Wilson has amazing escapability, I've compared him to Barry Sanders. But to act like Wilson is the sole reason they went to the playoffs is silly.
     
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  6. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I didn't :tongue:

    Bayless is an idiot!
     
  7. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Is this serious? Wilson has been to two SBs and won one. Luck went to an AFC championship, etc, etc. ,,,and they are actually being compared? This is ridiculous and I have been a huge Tanne supporter, but this is such a stupid argument. It's widely accepted that QB is the most important position on the team and yet it's his great teams that made Wilson great? ...and just a weak division made Luck seem better than he is? Ahhhh!!!! Go watch Wilson in college and you will see that he was a great all around QB just like he has been to this point in his career. Why must some knock these QBs in order to show their love and support of Tanne? Not directed at you personally A4E, but this whole debate has become such a massive circle jerk. I don't know. Have at it.
     
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  8. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Just so we're clear, we're talking about the same Mel Kiper that had a ragegasm over Miami not taking Brady Quinn?
     
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  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    The handful of Ryan apologists make themselves feel better about watching him play poorly by taking superior QBs and trying to put an emphasis on the bad games not realizing that those guys are accomplished QBs as opposed to a guy who quite frankly has had more subpar games than above par.

    Ryan is who he is and can still be a solid QB in this league as long as the other pieces are in place, I think it's clear to most of us that he will never be a QB that makes people around him better. But he's making a truck load of $$....so it seems we are married to him for a while which isn't the worst thing in the world if we get some good protection and WRs who can take these short passes and get some YAC.

    For me it's been a moment of clarity for Ryan, I accept what he is....and I'm not mad he is our QB but I also have no delusions he is anywhere near the football player Luck or Wilson is.
     
  10. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I mean, you're right about Mel...dude is wrong ALOT. But it seems when it comes to any negativity on Tanny many posters just choose to discredit the source, and there are a lot of them.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    [​IMG]
    "The handful of Ryan apologists make themselves feel better about watching him play poorly by taking superior QBs and trying to put an emphasis on the bad games not realizing that those guys are accomplished QBs as opposed to a guy who quite frankly has had more subpar games than above par."



    [​IMG]
    "Ryan is who he is and can still be a solid QB in this league as long as the other pieces are in place, I think it's clear to most of us that he will never be a QB that makes people around him better. But he's making a truck load of $$....so it seems we are married to him for a while which isn't the worst thing in the world if we get some good protection and WRs who can take these short passes and get some YAC."



    [​IMG]
    "For me it's been a moment of clarity for Ryan, I accept what he is....and I'm not mad he is our QB but I also have no delusions he is anywhere near the football player Luck or Wilson is."
     
  12. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Well, I can't speak for them. But as for me, it's very hard for me to take criticism from certain people seriously. And considering that the biggest four detractors of Tannehill this week is Stephen "SCREAMING MAKES ME SOUND IMPORTANT" Smith, Skip "I'm only here to make Smith seem more knowledgeable and spit out pseudo-wisdom" Bayless, Mel "I'll gladly hand shine your jock strap!" Kiper, and whoever "leaked" a walkthrough incident that was blown so far out of proportion, I think they tend to discredit themselves.
     
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  13. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    And FTR, when I said "certain people", I didn't mean posters. I meant certain people in sports media.
     
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I know i was bashing Ryan...when the truth hurts that is the only way out


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The argument has never been who is, or is not, better. The argument is that Wilson has had a ton of support that Tannehill could only fantasize about, and Luck hasn't been drastically better, and struggles with some of the same stuff that Tannehill is criticized for around here.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    res, hes an uncoventional qb..your comparing him to a strict pocket passer, you cant compare stats..they get things done differently..there are throws at certain times that ive seen wilson throw that i havent with ryan, there is certainly runs and big play scrambles one has made that the other does not.
     
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  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    revisit in 5 years.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol, betting against andrew luck... thats a good one trav, man I wish we could make a real bet on that doozy.

    Andrew luck could of beaten the sorry texans with one hand...

    If there is a draft 2maro, he goes #2 overall behind rogers...thats the bottom line, because its very easy to see that hes just going thru an ebb in the flow.
     
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yes it certainly has become about who is better and it has been a big circle jerk. On one hand, people acknowledge that the QB is the most important position on the team and then say that the team is the reason Wilson has been to two SBs. I think you can see things from an individual play by play basis. Again, in order to praise Tanne, why must people try to put down and diminish these other QBs? I think it is a ridiculous argument, but like I said, if entertains you, have at it. Compare him to Marino who also didn't have a good supporting cast. The numbers are getting there. :pointlol: ..or compare him to Tom "I like having sex with little farm animals" Brady. He's had success without having big all-pro names. Again, I've been a big Tanne supporter. but this is ridiculous.
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Discrediting Wilson, because of the stout defense and commitment to the run (Lynch wasn't all that great in 2013) is starting to look like a coping mechanism. Arguing Tannehill would have the same success in Seattle is ludacris.

    Seattle's Oline has been just as bad, and at times worse, than what Tannehill plays behind. Look at the receiving options he has. Doug Baldwin as your #1? No TE? Wallace as poor of a fit as he was here was light years better than anyone they've had.

    People want to talk about Seattle's defense, or the run game (of which he is a huge part of by the way), but then forget to mention the 2nd highest QB rating of all time. He's 121 passes from that, and as long as he doesn't sh** the bed, he'll be in 2nd above Romo and Peyton Manning.

    If you put Tannehill on that team that'd be worse. If you put Wilson on our team we'd be better. Super Bowl better? No. But better.
     
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  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Acting like Wilson's run game, and defense that allowed 16 points on average want a large part of their success is ridiculous. Has zero to do with which QB is better.
     
  22. atomdomb

    atomdomb Banned

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    Please don't do this. The way I see it both players know presnap where they are going to throw the ball. The difference is Brady is much better at reading a defense presnap and throwing to the open man from what he sees before the snap. Tanny, I think, can't make good presnap reads and still has his mind made up on who he wants to get the ball. Three yard passes on 3rd and 8 are the result.
     
  23. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    Could these events have been averted if greater significance had been afforded to the offensive line and protection for RT?
    It probably would have fostered more opportunity for Ryan to remain upright, perhaps he would have found a measurable degree of success, a degree more respectable of his projected curve of improvement, but ultimately to a different outcome?

    Penalties still would have broken out in rashes across the field, and the defensive collapse, would have still leaned heavily on the offense early on to carry the load.

    Would we even have expected RT to muscle past this?

    I still would have preferred this outcome, over moderately improved play from last year, only to have seen those coaches eek out another season of moderate production, to be given yet another go around for less than championship caliber coaching, less than absolute player preparedness, and less than visionary leadership for even one more game.
     
  24. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    lol I'm dumbfounded by people who think Luck Wilson and Ryan are in the same league...

    I guess if you replaced Michael Jordan with Mitch Richmond the Bulls would have won 6 championships still. :lol:
     
  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I know. You missed the point. Joking flash.
     
  26. greyeagl53

    greyeagl53 Active Member

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    Skip Bayless is not worth the time...clueless
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course it was part of the success. So is the 2nd highest rated QB of all time. And the advantages Wilson had in the passing game was not better, and arguably worse at times, than Tanny's. Seattle's oline has been terrible the past few years. They don't really spend any resources on the receiving options save for Percy Harvin who was injured, and this year Jimmy Graham.
     
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  28. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Two games vs. SH*T competition and you want to extrapolate it like that? LOL :pointlol:
     
  29. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    He forgets that even with his supporting cast he still has to make the throws and execute on important downs ..... which he's done consistently over his career thus far.
     
  30. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    At the end of the day, it is Tannehill who has been getting the benefit of the doubt, since his rookie year, everyone around him has been getting fired or released and he is still here, and at this point, it LITERALLY is EVERYONE (HC Philbin, OC Mike Sherman, GM Jeff Ireland, about 10 to 15 OL, WRs like Wallace, TEs like Clay, RBs) like i said, EVERYONE...

    If things dont improve offensively, its only logical and inevitable to think he is next in the chopping block at this point.
     
  31. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    More pundits are starting to question Luck's decision making and whether he's "slightly over-rated" as Rich Eisen phrased it this week. Michael Silver was on ESPN yesterday afternoon saying how he's tired of hearing how Luck carries the Colts. Silver also praised Tannehill's handling of the walk-thru fiasco and questioned Philbin's HC ability and also how weak our defensive guys must be if they got their feelings hurt by the QB barking at them and had to whine to their agents or media...
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's hard to argue that the Seattle coaches haven't been light years better, in gameplanning to win games, potentially at the cost of QB development, in how they've handled Russell Wilson. Give him a great defense, and a very good run game, then have him roll out on most plays. It's been talked about a ton, how rolling him out allows them to maximize his skillset. Tannehill has been coached to stay in the pocket, and attempt to go through progressions.

    And I'm not even going to respond to the weapons argument, I mean, really, Tannehill's first year he had Hartline, Bess, and Gibson. Then he was given a speedster who didn't fit the offense AT ALL. By the way, what do that guy's numbers look like this season?? Let me help...his average per catch is a yard lower right now (the lowest of his career), his longest catch is 22 yards, and he has 1 td through 4 games.
     
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  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    How do you know what went into the game planning for Seattle? Such an over-generalization.
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill to Wallace produced 114 rating last year.

    How is Tannehill doing WITHOUT him this year?

    Hartline, Bess and Rishard Mathews too ;)

    Doug Baldwin, Kearse, Matthews, Lockette.

    Who?

    As for roll outs vs not ... I only have 2013 numbers, you know, the super bowl season but:
    http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/russell-wilson-2013-passing-stats-insideoutside-pocket/

    Look at the small percentage of passes outside the pocket and the numbers are worse. Doesn't support your argument at all.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    lol, 4 games? Ok, how's Wallace doing without Tannehill in that same 4 game span? Hartline?
     
  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    The field has shrunken dramatically for him. Not that he was good at executing downfield with Wallace anyways. LOL

    It's especially worse given that they show no commitment to run the ball and somehow they think Tannehill is capable is slinging 35-40 times a game. :tantrum:
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We are talking about Tannehill. resnor argued Wallace hampered Tannehill, but not last year. 4th highest QB/WR combo in the whole league.

    Remember the silly arguments that Wallace just took away red zone targets from other WRs and is indispensable?

    Let me point you to this thread

    http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...you-cant-score-from-5-yards-away-with-8-downs
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's not what he said. I can take some solace in the fact, I'm not the only you do that too.

    He said Wallace didn't fit the offense we were running...and he didn't the first year. The second year, Wallace, manned up a bit and changed how he played to suit the offense. He was relatively successful. I bet dollars to donuts, resnor agrees with all that.

    I didn't post in or read that thread so I don't care about it.

    And yes, we are talking about Tannehill, and if any other QB turned Brian "I turn every formation into trips" Hartline into a 1000 yrd receiver, you guys would felate that QB.
     
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  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Those people aren't the problem per se, the choices they made are the problem. If new people are brought in and make the same wrong choices, then the problems will continue.

    Ryan has been saddled with two significant hurdles up to this year: a bad WR corp and a bad oline. All of those people failed to fix or scheme for those two things.

    This year, he has a better WR corp, but two of the better WRs he has have been essentially kept out of the game up to this point and the oline....yeesh....
     
  40. Titleguru

    Titleguru New Member

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    This has been my consistent point. Tannehill throws on a one dimensional plane. The second that you add in a second or third dimension he becomes inaccurate. More simply he has problems hitting the flats because he's not properly judging the distances(direction and distance). The long ball is a problem because that adds height and rate of drop to the equation. The end zone work of throwing a bullet works for him, but if he has to loop it up it's not consistent. When you force him out of the pocket the dimensional differences really start to compound He's great over the middle with good timing generally. When teams take away the middle, he's cooked. I'm not sure that this skill can be taught. In fact it's doubtful. We've got to recognize that he's not a franchise QB. He's serviceable and he's beginning to have an attitude.
     

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