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So would u give Ireland one last year?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    My analysis is as good as anyone else's here. Would you prefer we never question any personnel moves, well just because the GM should know more than we do?
    If you anticipate Carroll and Wilson's development why would you reach early for TWO corners? Yes, it is hard to debate guys who are blindly loyal to a GM, no matter what he does. If anyone questions his decisions, you pull out the "you're not in a position to know" card.
     
  2. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    I don't know about this team. Specifically Ireland and some of the assistant coaches like QB coach Zack Taylor, and OC Sherman. The teams record 20-25 during Irelands tenure without Parcells dictate a change in GM and our rushing and defensive ranking indicate makeover the offensive and defensive schemes. If there was a way to demote Sherman and Coyle to assistant OC and assistant DC and bring in Tom Clemments who worked with Philbin in GB, or Pete Carmichael from the Saints
     
  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    His successes minus his mistakes has led us to a combined record of 46-48 to this point. The very definition of mediocrity, aka average, aka ordinary. Perhaps you are satisfied with that.
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    They also say Ireland has final authority on who is added or subtracted from the roster.
     
  5. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Because he liked them as value players at that pick? Because he hadn't seen Brent Grimes play a football game since rupturing his achilles? Because Jamar Taylor is a high-risk/high-reward draft pick? Because Patterson gets hurt a lot? Because Wilson isn't great on the boundary? Because the passing NFL demands you have lots of guys who can cover?

    We have great depth at corner right now. We could be set there for a few seasons into the future. Not sure why this is an issue you want to go back and dig up at this moment.
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Taking a corner isn't a problem if he is the BPA, but because of his health and injury issues, it seems to me that he could have made a few better choices than Taylor. If as you say he is a high risk/high reward, which is another way of saying boom/bust, IMO, the 2nd round is too early.
     
  7. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    People had Jamar Taylor rated in the top 30 in terms of talent. We picked him at 54. You roll the dice and hope he stays healthy. This kind of pick happens all the time, like literally every year. Sometimes it works (Star Lotulelei, Gronk, Prince Amukamara) and sometimes it doesn't (Da'Quan Bowers, Sergio Kindle, Ras-I Dowling). Then he took Will Davis to shore up the depth at CB. You criticize for Ireland rolling the dice on an injury concern, and then keep criticizing him for hedging that risky bet when he picked Will Davis.
     
  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    WADR u sound ridiculous.

    Youre saying he didn't know Carroll and Wilson would develop for no other reason than it's convenient for your argument. Obviously he thought they'd improve or else he wouldn't have drafted them. What's next, he had no idea Vernon would improve or he'd never have drafted Jordan?

    You can question whatever you'd like, but when you start claiming to know what the GM is thinking then it's pretty clear you're outta your league.
     
  9. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    You let Joe choose the GM and become the face of the franchise. You give him the central power in the football operations.
     
  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's working backwards from an assertion again.

    The Dolphins aren't blowing 10-point leads because their talent sucks. There's no reproducible, consistent trait. They find all sorts of ways to **** it up, and it's just as often the good units that are doing it as are the questionable units, and almost always you can pin it on some coaching decision. The actual huge hole, the offensive line doesn't typically come in until later, the "oh ****" time when they abandon any pretext of anything that would mitigate their issues.
     
  11. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He needs to get healthy before he can stay healthy. I hope he does as much as anyone.
     
  12. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Huh...how typical is that in the NFL? I mean..sounds like a good idea to me. I'd like to see a GM build a team arounf Philbin's vision.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
  13. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    But..what if shes just the financial side of the equation..and Philbin is the personel side?

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  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When did I say I know exactly what he is thinking? I guess you would prefer we all follow you and be blind loyalists and never question a single move he makes, well, just because we are not in a position to know anything.
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Link?

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Is Joe Philbin qualified to do that?
     
  17. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Speaking of links. I'd love to see one that hints that Aponte is already in charge.
     
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  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Did you not know? The word of the great Stringer Bell is superior to any link. :shifty:
     
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...d-Herman/fa867057-fc7c-4a9c-afd1-8b60415514bb

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
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  20. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    You said he didn't know Carroll and Wilson would improve, bc he drafted Taylor and Wilson, according to you. Of course Grimes is a FA, so is Carroll, Patterson is oft injured, Vontae and SSmith left the team last season. There are a lot of reasons to restock the CB position other than Ireland drafting players he has no confidence in.

    Lol @ blind loyalist. I could do a better job of ripping Ireland than you or anyone else, and I don't need mind reading abilities or outright fiction to do it.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    1. That was how Miami was able to hire him away from Dallas. Give him final authority on personnel.
    2. When Fisher was being interviewed, one thing that was reported, was that he wanted some say so in personnel, like divide it with Ireland. Ross said no, the power structure would remain the same. Ireland in charge of the personnel side. That was one reason why Fisher declined the job in Miami. I read that. I do not save links. I am not going to go dig up a link to appease you. You do not need to believe me. I really do not care either way. I am not seeking your love or approval.
     
  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well goody for you. You must be very proud of this ability. Feel free to prove it anytime.
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    So to be clear the Miami Dolphins have not explicitly expressed that Ireland can add or cut anyone he chooses without restriction? Your opinion is based on reports, nothing coming from the Dolphins? Why would they not state this publicly?

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  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    From the Media Guide,
    Ireland:
    In his role with the Dolphins, Ireland is not only responsible for overseeing and coordinating the college and pro personnel departments, but also helps manage the team’s salary cap and player contracts. He supervises all scouting efforts that relate to the college draft, free agency, the Canadian Football League, and personnel of the other 31 NFL teams. Ireland works hand in hand with Head Coach Joe Philbin in implementing a personnel plan to build the Dolphins into a championship caliber team.
    Aponte:
    Aponte works closely with General Manager Jeff Ireland and Head Coach Joe Philbin on football administrative matters and serves as the team’s chief contract negotiator. She is responsible for the management and strategic planning of the Dolphins salary cap, negotiating and drafting player contracts and overseeing the football operations budgets. Aponte also serves as the team’s liaison on league affairs.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    To be clear, the Dolphins do not add or subtract a player without Ireland's approving the move.
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The only thing Ireland has control over is the scouting departments. Aponte is in charge of the budget and contract negotiations. I think its pretty clear that they both have specific delineated powers. Neither has any type of "total control".

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  27. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Ireland also helps manage the team’s salary cap and player contracts.
     
  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Right, but he cannot add or subtract anyone he wants. There are checks on all sides.

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  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, he helps Aponte, but she is in charge of it.

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  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Do you think there was someone that told Bill Parcels what his budget was? Nick Saban?

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  32. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    This shouldn't even be debated. Stephen Ross has said himself that Jeff Ireland has final say on all personnel decisions. This idea that he has to go to Dawn Aponte to get approval to sign someone is the definition of silly. Dawn Aponte has no say in who the Dolphins sign. She does nothing more than negotiate the contracts and make sure the moves don't wreck the salary structure.

    Speaking of free agency, here are some of the moves Jeff has been directly involved in:

    Justin Smiley $25 million, 5 years
    Jake Grove $29 million, 5 years
    Ernest Wilford $13 million, 4 years
    Karlos Dansby $43 million, 5 years
    Mike Wallace $60 million, 5 years
    Dannell Ellerbe $35 million, 5 years
    Philip Wheeler $26 million, 5 years

    Aponte has been around for the Dansby signing through this year's signing. The return on investment of these signings is horrible. None of these players have lasted more than 3 years on this team, with Wallace, Ellerbe, and Wheeler only being here for a year so far.

    So, if Jeff doesn't have final say over personnel, then I guess it is Dawn Aponte that needs to be fired for such poor ROI on their free agent decisions.

    This is the guy some of you want to manage the potential $38 million in cap money we have next year? When he has a middling wide receiver that will count $17.5 million against next year's cap?

    What's sad is that they signed Justin Smiley when they knew he had shoulder problems.

    Oh, and how could I forget about the $27.5 million over 5 years that was given to Gibril Wilson.

    ....and some of you seriously think I should support Jeff because he is armed with $38 million? I mean, the question is not if he will waste the money. It is when and on who.
     
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  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You literally contradicted yourself one sentence after another.

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  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Because he helps manage the salary cap and contracts he knows pretty well how or if a player he wants can fit within the cap.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He helps manage. So he isn't under her.
     
  36. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The only contradiction is in your world where the GM of the team apparently does not have final say on anything and is therefore blameless for any of the stupid moves that have been made on his watch. How much film of the players do you think Dawn Aponte is watching? Do you seriously think Jeff went to Dawn and asked for permission to sign Mike Wallace this off season?

    Hell no!

    The scenario was more like Jeff went to Dawn and told her to come up with a contract that fit him into the salary structure.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If they fit within the cap, yes he can add whom he wants. That is what overseeing, aka being in charge of, the pro and college personnel depts allow him to do.
    Since he helps manage the cap, he knows whether or not cutting a player will result in a cap hit, so he has no need to ask Aponte for permission to cut a player either.
     
  38. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Come on now, you know Miami is the only team in professional sports team that doesn't have one person that has final say over anything. They are trying to set a new standard where no one makes the final call on anything. That way, no one can be blamed when the decisions are wrong.
     
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  39. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Of course. Every team has a budget. It's called the salary cap. Did you find that link yet?
     
  40. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, teams have budgets aside from the salary cap.

    Not to mention there is a budget for coaching staffs, scouting departments, medical staffs, trainers, etc.

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