For those with nooses securely tightened waiting for one more overblown story to tip the chair out from underneath, I ask you to pause for a moment and recall the 2010 49ers.
This is a team that finished with the same 6-10 record.
They similarly entered the 2011 offseason with a QB situation the fan base vehemently wanted resolved (putting it nicely).
What happened in Free Agency? Similarly, no franchise QB was added. No big splashes were made outside of signing a good Carlos Rogers who turned out to be great in San Fran. Donte Whitner was added, but at $11M, I wouldn't call him a big splash.
What happened outside of Free Agency? They brought in a 1st time NFL HC and drafted well.
What resulted? With a great new HC, the same QB, a good draft, and a modest FA, San Fran went 13-3 nearly making the Super Bowl.
So please, Dolphin fans, relax for a bit, yell out for someone to hold the chair steady while you free yourself, and give this a little time to play out before taking a permanent dirt nap. Joe Philbin is a respected coach coming from a great organization who coordinated one of the best offenses in the NFL, so for his benefit and after recalling Harbaugh's success, let's see what coach does with the team before entering mass hysteria mode. And, no, I'm not drinking the Kool Aid, rather just stating some truth.
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unluckyluciano, xer0, Steve-Mo and 24 others like this.
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good points Todd, it's nice to see some optimism up in here these days.
My only point to play devil's advocate here is that the 49ers played in a division against teams who went 8-8, 7-9, and 2-14, in which games they were 5-1. It would be hard to envision a 5-1 record against the Pats Jets and Bills next year, though all things considered it could happen.PhinsRDbest, MAFishFan, MikeHoncho and 3 others like this. -
[SIZE=-1]I agree with this, the disappointment of not getting Manning has clouded some judgement i feel. Given the schedule we have this year, Moore is more[/SIZE] than capable (based on his performances last season) of getting this team to the playoffs. We have a good opportunity in the draft to pick up some good players for the future. Philbin is going to be a hell of a lot better than Sparano, the respect he has around the league is very encouraging and the new system he is implementing will be something new for us and will be very interesting.
I think its obvious Jeff Ireland isn't helping the Miami Dolphins, as a scout i think he has a very good eye for players, for a general manager though it just does not suit him and is damaging the perception of the team.Marco, Fin D, ToddsPhins and 1 other person like this. -
Seems you and I are echoes in the same room. :up:Laces Out, ToddsPhins, Fin D and 2 others like this.
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I don't think Todd is stating we will go 13-3. Even if we go 3-3 or somehow 4-2 in the division, you could potentially see 10+ wins with a turnaround that would have the fanbase pretty damn exciting. People here are only dwelling on the negative (and IMO the unrealistic). I got excited at the thought of a healthy Manning for about 48 hours, but we really had the least amount to offer Manning wrt intangibles. The fact that Flynn wasn't made a big offer makes me believe he's only mediocre. people in this forum need to stop acting like my elementary school daughter when she doesn't get a new monster high doll every weekend. At least a small subset of us have managed to stay realistic: our franchise is extremely mediocre right now, but there are reasons to be optimistic, especially if we draft TannehillToddsPhins, Fin D, xphinfanx and 1 other person like this.
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Well, if folks want optimism, look at our scheduled opponents, we should be able to clean up some W's.
Other side of the coin is, we have no one comparable to Vernon Davis, and the 49ers D had more talent particularly at LB and passrushers.unluckyluciano, xphinfanx and OkiePhin like this. -
Thanks. Good point. So maybe that translates to 10-6 or 11-5 when removing the handicap. ??? Agree? Disagree?
To counter your good point, we did go 2-1 against our foes to close out the season.pennphinfan and Fin D like this. -
Excellent post. I'll have sex with you now, so stop begging. You're still receiving though.unluckyluciano and ToddsPhins like this.
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All I will say is anyone can have a great year coming off a bad year.
See Sparano going 11-5 after taking over a 1-15 team.
It is what happens after that season that makes all the difference.
In this day and age of parity in the NFL, it is nothing for a team to turn around things one season to the next. Last season alone, I believe, 6 of the playoff teams last season had a losing record the season before. That means 6 teams that were in the playoffs the year before didn't make it last year to teams that were rebounding. What happens to those teams this year is what makes the difference.
There are plenty of examples like the 1st year Sparano's out there. However, there aren't as many of the Mike Smith examples where the Falcons also went 11-5 that year and haven't had a losing season since.
Like I said before, and will say again, nothing but full support for Philbin. I hope he is the coach to get us back to where we should be and have winning/promising seasons. That said, it is as much the coach as it is the GM. 20-28 is a record that hangs on Sparano, but is also a record that hangs on Ireland. Not all of it is on him since Parcells was pulling strings, but a chunk of it does. Since that 11-5 start, that regime was 9-23. That is with their players, their draft picks, their signings.
I support this team and organization, but that doesn't mean I can't be disapproving as well at certain aspects. -
Padre, your right, the miners d was ferocious. VD being one of the better safety nets in the league, frank gore being a very good running back. They also hit with Whitney Rodgers, their draft picks panned out to be very good as well. In a weak division it all made sense. Unfortunatly for us, I can't see us winning 10 next year, we could pull off 9 but with our luck we will be sitting at 8-8 again drafting around 10 again.
2-4 in division
jags 3-4
titatns 4-4
Raiders 4-5
rams 5-5
Seahawks 5-6
Texans 5-7
colts 6-7
Bengals 6-8
Niners 6-9
Cardinal 7-9
We win maybe the Oakland or Seattle game 8-8 we lose an easy one we could easily go 6-10 -
I agree with most of this, except the last part which I prefer to reserve any judgement on till the end of the season. IMO we should take a step back and look where we are now compared to the 6-10 team that fans were furious about.
1. we didn't end the season looking like a 6-10 team.
2. Fans were praying for Sparano's firing. Ireland & Ross canned him despite us being one of the better teams during the 2nd half of the season, so I think we should give Ross & Ireland a little leeway here b/c they did do what the fans wanted. They also went after an elite HC in 2011 just as the fans were hoping, but it realistically would've been coup to pull Harbaugh away from California where his heart was.
3. Fans want to say we ignored QB needs in the 2011 draft, but that's an invalid, unfair, conveniently judgmental statement. That's an irrational belief by fans looking to blame someone,anyone for not getting a QB.
News flash: other teams want QBs, and unfortunately the draft doesn't always go the way you like consider the principle of supply and demand. It's not like Miami can strong arm another team and be like, "Yo, Jaguars, you're gonna give us your number 10 pick and like it!".
The simple fact is--- 3 QBs not worthy of the top 12 were drafted ahead of us during a year we had no 2nd rounder to trade up, and you know what?----> I'm ECSTATIC we didn't desperately & frantically trade up for QBs not worthy of trading up for. !!!!!!So kudos for Ireland for having the RESTRAINT to not do so!!!!!!!!! Fans were mad that Mallett wasn't drafted as "the answer" but if he were viewed as a franchise QB capable of saving an organization, he would've been drafted in the 1st round rather than being passed over at least twice by every team.
4. Ireland's first offseason with full control was quite successful without Parcells (the guy responsible for putting us in this current hole) looming over his shoulder.
A. He brought in Reggie Bush for next to no compensation which was met with criticism by fans who wanted Running Back X instead. Ireland's decision proved to be a great one.
B. We gave Crowder his walking papers and brought in Burnett which some fans also criticized Ireland for, but once again Ireland's decision proved great as the defense settled in to being one of the best in the league, a defense that Ladanian Tomlinson doused heavy praise on. Ireland helped build this formidable D.
C. With limited draft picks, Ireland drafted quality players who should be key contributors for years to come.
D. He showed the restraint to not use one of our limited supply of picks (and potentially a 2012 1st) to move up for one of 3 QBs (Gabbert, Locker, or Ponder) who IMO have not shown signs of being legitimate franchise QBs. Instead he brought in Matt Moore whom fans criticized the heck out of Ireland for despite Moore being the MOST successful of the 4 options AND without having to use a 1st rounder. In hindsight that proved to be an OUTSTANDING decision, yet Ireland haters dismiss it, and not one has come forth to apologize for their premature & violent criticism that ended up being wrong.
E. He brought in Brian Daboll who fans irrationally criticized the heck out of Ireland for, and once again Ireland proved it to be a great decision as Daboll displayed some nice OC potential when afforded some talent to work with despite having a shortened offseason and a change in QBs.
D. Ireland was criticized for having a WR coach become the QB coach, and again fan reaction proved premature, irrational, and unreasonable as Matt Moore had an unexpectedly solid year and by year's end looked more like a starter than a questionable backup.
5. Ireland brings in the players (and we have a talented overall roster IMO), but it's ultimately the coaches who have to win with those players, keep ALL those players unified & motivated, create a winning game plan, utilize proper playcalling, and have the ability to adjust and play the in-game chess match. It's not Ireland's fault this team couldn't hold a 4th quarter lead. It wasn't Ireland who employed a "play for a FG" mentality. It's not Ireland who caused players to show up out of shape jeopardizing the beginning of the season. It wasn't Ireland who had us unprepared, leading to extremely SLOPPY play early on and a torching by Brady. The person responsible for all that was FIRED.
6. Ireland isn't the one who handcuffed himself with a roster full of inept coaches who were all fired (or forced into retirement), but it's Ireland who has to practice damage control, and it's unfortunately Ireland who irrationally bears the brunt of fans' hatred of consecutive losing seasons despite our woes coming primarily from the staff Parcells hired, not Ireland. It's not a simple task to undo in 1 season the mess that Parcells and his staff took numerous years to create, especially with a lame duck HC.
7. Ireland has replaced all the inept coaches, and all of the candidates he chose for 2011 proved better than their predecessors.
Now Philbin is here, a guy who actually seems like a head coach (rather than the rah rah fist pumper) that I feel comfortable with matching wits against Belichick.
So our semi talented 6-10 team with improved coaching has a chance to make some waves.Fin D likes this. -
And this isn't just about 2012.
NFL football does NOT end with the 2012 season.... unless you're the Saints.
If Philbin proves to be a great coach, then we're in an outstanding position moving forward regardless of finding a 2012 "franchise" QB or not.
We could do absolutely NOTHING in FA & the draft and this offseason be considered a win if we walk away with Philbin being a great coach. -
San Fran had Vernon Davis when they went 6-10, and they also had the same LBs until the 2011 draft rolled around.Fin D likes this.
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So you're saying Harbaugh and Sparano are basically equal caliber HCs?
Comparing the 2008 Phins to 2011 San Fran is completely apples to oranges.
Sparano's 2008 team was a group of overachievers and was comprised of a roster in the middle of a rebuild with a coaching staff that proved to be inept, so there ZERO chance to have any necessary continuity to ensure our success carried over. We were also not the 11-5 that our record suggested b/c we were greatly outmatched by playoff caliber teams and barely won games vs the worst teams in the league. Harbaugh and the Niners showed they ARE a 13-3 team as they nearly made the SB with a roster that isn't in rebuild mode. Similarly to SanFran, our roster is not in rebuild mode b/c we now have some young talent in place to build around just as SanFran did (and still does). -
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We went 2-1 vs our division (and nearly 3-0) with an interim HC to close out the season (and 3-3 on the year), so why is it assumed we'll go 2-4 when our coaching might in fact be improved?
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Only when I'm constipated.
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I also don't recall the niners promising to make a splash at the QB position.
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That's because they did the opposite. They publicly stated they believe in the QB that the FANS desperately wanted replaced!!!
If Ireland did that here regarding Moore, holy cow he wouldn't hear the end of it!! It'd be the end of the world. You're proving my argument for me so thank you I guess. -
Figures you would miss the point. Both were first time head coaches in the NFL. Plenty of first time coaches have come in and turned around a team after in their first year thanks to a weak schedule and a new attitude.
Miami was the benefit of both back in 2008, as were the 49ers last season. Rams, Cards, and Seattle twice. 5-1 vs them. Take away that and now we are looking at 8-2. Of those 2 losses they were to Dallas and B'more. They beat Cleveland, Tampa Bay and Washington, which aren't quality wins. So lets look at the other 5 wins. Pittsburgh they beat with Big Ben hardly able to move due to an ankle injury. Cincy made the playoffs but they weren't really THAT good. Their only real quality wins were Philly (who was awful when they played them), Giants, and Detroit.
THREE quality wins. That sure as hell will change in 2012 with home games vs Giants, Bears, Lions, Dolphins and Bills and road games vs Packers, Vikings, Saints, Patriots, and Jets.
SO they face again the Giants and Lions, but now add in the Bears, Packers, Patriots, Jets, and Saints in place of Cleveland, Cincy, Tampa, Washington, and Pittsburgh. Hell, they should win at least 4 games in their division. So lets say they are 4-2 there. To get to another 5 wins will be one hell of a chore. Say they beat Miami and Buffallo. Then they still have to win 3 out of Giants, Bears, Lions, Packers, Vikings, Saints, Patriots, and Jets. That my friend is one tall order. That my friend is the difference between a losers schedule and a winners schedule.
Again...you missed the point totally and the truths, since you love the truth so much. There is no apples to oranges when looking at what a losing team does one year to the next with a first year head coach. Like I said, AND THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR THE 49ers, it is what you do after that season that matters.
If the 49ers have .500 or worse seasons coming off their 13-3, nobody will remember that 13-3. -
Considering they didn't have a "best" WR, I'm not sure your point.
And they didn't have one costing $9.0+ million who might not have fit Harbaugh's plans.
However, if they did have a "best" WR and they traded him away for 2 3rds just before the NFL realized he might be in trouble and suspended for some of 2012, then I'm guessing they'd be high-fiving their win. -
Really, because the 49ers tried to get Manning and almost lost the QB they believed in because of it.
If the front office said Matt Moore was the man and we are sticking with him, then the fans would buy in.
However, Ross opened his trap and proclaims that upgrading the Qb position is their top priority. Whoops....you open the door, don't expect people to hold you accountable. -
Shhhhh....Todd is on a roll. Let him go with this.
The truths must come out! -
Figures you would only quote the 1st sentence of my post and ignore the rest in a straw attempt to better support your flawed argument.
So, all the typing you just did was for nothing b/c I simply won't read it or respond to it. :wink2: -
The rest of your post was pointless based on that first quote.
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lol @ creating an imaginary scenario in San Fran and then conveniently deciding for San Fran how they'd handle that scenario in a way that best suits your argument. :lol:
If that's the best you have, then you don't have much. -
I was just seeing how far your eqivocation goes.
You currently have a pretty flimsy argument. I have still yet to read why specifically the Dolphins are going to be like last years 49ers. Why specifically did the 49ers turn it around? And please be specific and don't use generalities like "great coaching", or "they played to their strengths and limited their weakness". What were those and how did they do it specifically? Then why does Philbin have those same key, specific traits as Harbaugh? Why specifically is Matt Moore/Gerrard going to repeat the success of Smith? What traits do they share in common that is going to allow them to perform similarly or as well as Smith last year? You equivocation is just vague and flimsy. There are no concrete reasons why this HC, QB, or team is going to be like the 49ers other than "it's possible". It's possible? I fail to see that as insightful. -
!!!!!!!!!!!BULLLLL ****ING **IT the fans would buy it!!!!!!!!!! :lol: !!!!!What are you putting in your Fruit Loops?!!!!
<Massive sigh>
If my priority is to play stink finger with a swimsuit model, does that mean it's guaranteed to happen? :glare:
You're logic is SOOOOO ILLOGICAL, UNREASONABLE, PREMATURE, AND IRRATIONAL it's mind boggling.
What part of "THE DRAFT IS NOT HERE YET" do you NOT understand?!!.... and what part of "Franchise QBs are most always found in the DRAFT" do you NOT understand?!!!!
Is this voluntary ignorance b/c of your agenda to want Ireland and/or Ross outta here?.... or is it flat out natural ignorance? :dunno:Wulf likes this. -
If those pills are strong enough to make it seem as if Tannehill and Weeden are "splashy" then I think they're a bit more than chill pills my good sir.
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shula_guy Well-Known Member
Sounds like Kool Aide to me :confused2:
As tired as I am of hearing from the "Dolphins cant do anything right" crowd I am equally if not more tired of hearing from the "whitewash every screw up they have" crowd that is not above lectucring the rest of us on how to be a good fan and laying out what parameters we must meet to pass their pathetic litmus test of good fandom. -
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!!What do you mean "generalities like great coaching"?!! That's an absurd notion.
That's like asking, "Why do you feel that Ferrari's performance is impressive, and don't use generalities like "awesome engine". :lol:
Great coaching IS a reason, and a massive one. That team was virtually the same in 2011 as it was in 2010, however almost every player's performance on that team (including the few FA acquisitions) improved with Harbaugh as coach. Even the rookies seemed more prepared and contributed.
So SPECIFICALLY the Dolphins can be great like last year's Niners if Philbin turns out to be an outstanding coach capable of winning with the semi talented team we currently have while also getting more out of that talent just as Harbaugh did despite making no changes at starting QB, combined with us drafting as well as San Fran did (which is quite possible b/c Ireland has a good eye for talent, drafts well, and has the ability to find late round gems). -
Gotchya, so would it have been Kool Aid for San Fran fans to think the addition of a great head coach to a 6-10 team combined with a quality draft could provide them a winning season and NFC Championship appearance? :glare:
This site has a rant forum. Feel free to post your opinion there since it has nothing to do with this thread. Buh bye. -
IN.YOUR.OPINION. Others' opinion (some highly regarded and with a history of accuracy) believe otherwise and feel Tannehill & Weeden are top talents and superior to your system QB Flynn, a guy whose ex OC didn't feel was worthy of a heavy commitment contract. To think that an armchair fan feels they know Flynn better than a successful offensive coordinator who worked with both Flynn and a future HOFer is almost hysterical, and to criticize them for not heeding your uneducated, inexperienced opinion is even more hysterical. We're not talking about Dan Henning here, so show a little more respect for Philbin's abilities. I think his success in GB has earned that much before chopping everyone's heads off for not making the choice you were hoping for.
So far, virtually every "franchise hopeful QB" option that fans screamed for the past few seasons have turned out to be dead wrong.
Mallett? Ended up a 3rd rounder and passed over by every team at least twice.
Kolb? :headscratch:
Orton? :sidelol:
Ponder, Gabbert, Locker? None performed better in 2011 than Ireland's choice, Matt Moore.
So amidst all your complaining about making a splash at QB, if we went by what the fans as a whole believed would be a "splash" we would've failed repeatedly, and in fact by not desperately trying to make a splash in a puddle, we ended up better for it. If Ireland goes with Tannehill or Weeden (or stays with Moore), and they end up looking outstanding, Ireland's decision will once again prove correct while the majority of irrational fans will once again prove wrong.
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