I liked this article on the Fins official site. Good insite into how important our off season program is to our franchise. Apparently Grove is already off to a strong start. http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/news/top_story.asp?contentID=6373 "We've done our due diligence with the whole thing, obviously," Sparano said. "Jeff and Bill have done a tremendous job of getting into the background of all these guys we've brought here. I don't think that was really a concern of ours at the time. It certainly isn't. When you talk to people about Jake and his strength totals and the way he works in the weight room, you certainly get the picture. From our end, our offseason program is something that is important to us and Jake's there on campus right now. He's involved in lifting right now and the program hasn’t even started. So we feel like that's something that helped an awful lot of our players last year." "I just feel like in our division, your core, the inside three players, and having Jake Long and Vernon Carey now for a long time, that kind of solidifies an area a lot of these teams are still looking to find. They're all looking for tackles," said Sparano, whose history as an offensive line coach in the NFL benefits him in this area. "But the core, having to play against [Kris] Jenkins, [Marcus] Stroud, [Vince] Wilfork, that group has to be physically strong enough, physically tough enough to do the things they need to do." Interesting that although Satele and Grove are near the same size, apparently Grove's core lifts are far superior to Satele. There was something else about this on the web somewhere today, I'll try to track it down.
The offseason program did wonders for the oft injured Yeramiah Bell. Maybe it will do wonders for Grove too.
I hope so, that is supposed to be one of the benefits of such training. The key is to do the training in a way that isn't grinding or making things worse on joints, etc. I'd love to attend a week of their off season program, I'm sure they have a smooth operation going.
I think we're rushing to judgment on the benefits of the offseason program. It may very well help players, but one year does not consitute a sufficient sample size to say that it fixes all that ails ya. I think last year someone did some research on major injuries and it appeared that Pacells' teams had their equal share compared to the rest of the league.
I'd like to see a link to that. Parcells has repeatedly insisted that he has an off season regimen that, if followed, has been proven to reduce risk of injury.
If that were so, why would not every single team in the league use it? Wouldn't it make sense if it actually gave a clear advantage? Maybe someone will come up with it; I only allow myself 2 minute breaks from work to cause trouble on here
Most people in the business have huge egos. They all believe that they have a better way to do ...fill in the blank. I'm not saying Parcells way is the only way - just that he has one method that has been successful.
So is it your point then that off season programs are not a benefit? If so that's an opinion that very few in the profession support.
Every team in the league does do their version of it. All of them. So does every college team in the nation and so do the top High School programs in the nation. The few top programs that don't would be an extreme minority. It's so widely supported that anytime you go to a large "coaches clinic" you are sure to have up to a dozen sessions devoted over a weekend to Off season conditioning for speed and strength.
Ain't that the truth. It's amazing how many people with no formal training at all are experts on the field on in the off season activites. I always crack up at the lack of respect we fans show the profession. Anyone that would argue otherwise about Parcells methodology would be in a small group. He's considered one of the very top people in his profession.
Yeah I don't believe it's just a coincidence that every time he's been between jobs he has had several people chasing after him with job offers.
Not at all. I think offseason training programs are extremely important and effective at reducing injuries. My point is simply that Parcells' specific program may not be the saviour that some make it out to be. One year of very impressive results doesn't create a verifiable trend.
Right. I think you misunderstand me. Your point goes towards what I am saying. If every team has one and they're all amazing, why would Jake Grove or anyone else, doing Parcells' program turn into Superman? They might, but all I'm saying is that its too early to say that Parcell's/Ireland's/Sparano's current program is far superior to that administered by other coaches and/or strength and conditioning staff.
Your arrogant assumptions aren't making for a terribly good argument. I am certain that Parcells is a top coach/GM, etc. That doesn't mean that his conditioning program is substantially more successful than others at turning injury prone players into ironmen. Do you have data to suggest otherwise?
Well, we could go back to the lethargic days of Cam Cameron, and put 13 starters and their replacements on IR. Anyone? Anyone?
exactly. one of the reasons i picked us to win 7-9 games last year was because i knew we wouldn't be winded or injured by the time the 4th quarter came around. the 07 season was one of the most injury plagued seasons ive witnessed. and how many games did we lose by one score? we just couldnt close. and it showed in week 1 in overtime against the Redskins. that is putrid. week 1 is supposed to be easy conditioning wise. we weren't playing in the miami heat, so theres no excuse. parcells' philosophy beings a lot of meticulously scripted activities. all things that he has adopted throughout the years as a head coach to help his team become the kind that beats people up, instead of the inverse of that scenario. i'm very much looking forward to watching miami bully people in the trenches. that makes for some great football. this game is all about control. the biggest, fastest, strongest team controls everything that happens. Parcells wants all of his players to be big and strong. But he wants his skill players to still be fast enough to succeed against average players, and compete with elite ones. I love me some parcells football.
I'm honestly dumbfounded how you could possibly construe my statements to mean anything to this effect. All I am saying is that Parcells' regiment had paid off in one year of fewer than average injuries. Thats great and I hope to god it continues. However, it is one year, I haven't seen data to suggest that it will continue, and in fact remember someone mentioning that the major injury characteristics of Parcells teams don't differ much from the average. That is of course not to say that conditioning regiments are not important (cause somehow some people read that into my statements) but simply that Parcell's may not be so drastically better than everyone else's. A lot of posters here have this blind confidence that we can take any player from any team who has been injury a tremendous amount and somehow cure him of this predilection. I think thats shortsighted since they're operating on one year of data.
This is part of what I do for a living. I have 25 years coaching experience, have coached NFL players with another large group play division I, II, III and JC ball during that stretch. During that same stretch I've worked with many types of Off Season programs and found without question that the better programs have far less injuries than the lesser ones. Not to mention the other team building benefits that might even outway the physical ones. Parcells has had a reputation of running a very strong off season program. In fact, some players are drawn to that type of work ethic that he and his staff will demand, and others run from it when they don't want to work. I'm sorry I offended you, that wasn't the intention. I didn't have you in mind when I made the post that caused you to react. However, there are not many (if any) coaches of major football programs (such as NFL programs) that do not have off season programs and our particular staff has a very clear vison for the roll of our off season program. I don't even know any high school programs in So Cal that don't try to run off season programs. Sparano, Parcells, etc have made so many comments similiar to the one in this article that make it clear how strongly they believe in the off season program. They have mentioned previously as well how they believe the program helps players stay healthy and that was his angle in this article as well. Sparano: "From our end, our offseason program is something that is important to us and Jake's there on campus right now. He's involved in lifting right now and the program hasn’t even started. So we feel like that's something that helped an awful lot of our players last year"... The mental and physical benefits are pretty much universally accepted in the coaching field 2X. Again, sorry I offended you. I do completely disagree based on everything I've learned over the years though that our Off Season program won't have tons of benefits, including helping avoid injuries. I have alot of respect for the profession and have no doubt we're doing things right in Miami.
I didn't bro. My Cam Cameron statement was thrown out there for everyone to think about, not just you. And I never said that Parcells' OSWP was the cure-all for any oft injured player. I said it helped Bell (he and others raved about it), and that "maybe" it could help Grove as he is coming from another train-wreck of a team. Wishful thinking on my part? Plus, I don't really consider this just a one year experiment because Bill has done this for years with other teams.
Some of the critical remarks about Parcells Off Season program came from former OL Rex Tucker and they go with what 2X was saying. http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...cowboy-discusses-parcells-off-season-methods/ "It’s no surprise Tucker, who started seven games for Dallas during Parcells’ first season with the Cowboys in 2003, said the Big Tuna is a big believer in the off-season program. After all, Parcells’ football teams always were among the most physically imposing in the league. To become that kind of team, Parcells demands a lot of players each off-season, including a minimum of 40 workouts and his infamous 300-yard conditioning test. (I’ll be sure to ask players about that one at the first mini-camp). Tucker, now a member of the Redskins, also said Parcells might be a little too exacting of players. Tucker, 28, said Parcells is big on squats and hang cleans, two grueling exercises designed to increase power and explosion. Those exercises also can take their toll on a player’s knees and backs, and ultimately shorten his career, Tucker said. Tucker maintains this could cause some free agents to shy away from signing with Parcells. That might be a stretch, but Tucker’s birds-eye view of a Parcells’ off-season offers some interesting insights." It's good to see Sparano has stuck to his plan and not allowed the players to dictate the off season. I remember when he said this after being hired (the article is on MiamiDolphins.com). I know as a coach, almost every team that I've ever had tries to influence how hard you work them. Being consistent and not letting them wear you down is something you always have to safe guard yourself from falling into. It's human nature to want to do less IMO and if you fall into it you can stand to lose some important aspects of team building and injury prevention. "Being a former offensive lineman in college, Sparano has a special affinity for that particular area of the team, but he is not close minded when it comes to the types of players he can work with. Parcells had a reputation for finding players with size to build his offenses and defenses around, and while cognizant of that, Sparano again stressed endurance and being "physically ready to play." "It goes back to the whole offseason program. Bigger isn't necessarily better for me. Our players are going to be in outstanding shape," Sparano said. "We're going to work them hard. … Endurance and stamina are important. You've got to be able to go the long haul. Not 16, maybe 20, 19, games; whatever it takes to get into this thing." Another article that came out back when Taylor was skipping workouts, and how it rubbed the staff the wrong way.The article also correctly points out that most of the players and coaches that have participated in the Parcells Off Season program become "converts" to the system. That's exactly what my experience was as a coach and player when I saw the benefits of a complete Off Season program. http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2008/05/importance-of-parcells-conditioning.html Armando: "Something I didn't get into in the column that really fascinates me is the Dolphins' new training regimen that Bill Parcells brought to the team. One of the first things Parcells was surprised with and knew he had to change when he became Lord Dolphin was the number of injuries the team suffered last year. There were a ton, and for a team with limited depth, they were fatal. No exaggeration. The injuries killed the Dolphins season. I've written before on this blog what folks like Bill Belichick (the freaken, fracken cheater) and Sean Payton say about the Parcells offseason regimen. They swear by it. McCown, who has played for three other NFL teams before joining the Dolphins, also is impressed. "Everybody has a different way of doing things," he said. "And I’m not the one to say what is right or wrong. For me this system as far as the offseason approach seems very, very detailed down to the way we stretch, the way we warm up, even how we cool down. And obviously the workout and the running in between seems very detailed and says how we’re going to approach this thing. "Throwing is something I'm doing here. It’s very detailed on how they expect me to perform and it’s specific for the things I needed to do to get better whether it’s footwork or my release or whatever the case may be. It seems a very detailed approached. They don’t just say, ‘It’s OK for you to do things your way.’ It’s the way they think is the best way to get it done. That’s the way they want you to do it. "And they really hammer that in. For me that’s a little different and it’s exciting. I hope its beneficial and I think it will be because I like the changes I’ve made as far as myself and the way I approach football and the way I approach a day in the offseason." I will say that every program has guys that want to make excuses and not work. It's not uncommon and it's always a battle to win them over or move them out, or somehow find a middle ground that allows them to develop as part of the team when they refuse to buy in. That's a big part of the program and getting the players a entire staff from top to bottom to buy in is the key to success. Here's a passage from the first part of our Speed and strength training guide. It's all about mindset and guys that are lazy, primadona's, or who hate the weightroom will struggle to fit in: This is the mindset we try to establish from day one... THE LION WAY IS INTENSITY. It is maximum gains in the minimum amount of time. Our athletes “Invest” their time in the weightroom, they do not “spend” their time doing non-productive things. Everything we do is for a reason and a purpose. Consequently our workouts are very intense, relatively brief and never more than three times a week. AHS athletes reach their potential for size and strength by the time they graduate. Strength training for athletics is only valuable in the context of the sport. We are not a weight lifting team, nor are we marathon runners. Too much emphasis in one area of training will leave you deficient in other areas. Overall fitness, specific to the needs of football is our priority. There are several elements that make up your overall levels of fitness. They are: 1. Muscular Strength & Endurance 2. Cardiovascular Fitness 3. Nutrition 4. Specificity of Skills 5. Rest and Recovery Each area must be addressed individually to achieve overall fitness for the athlete. Intensity of the effort is the key to proper training. It is the reason for strength and conditioning gains, not magical formulas, super hero routines, miracles supplements or 400lb. clubs. LION INTENSITY includes: * Perfect repetition performed with maximum effort * Complete concentration throughout a workout session * Continuous effort, even when the body is in severe oxygen debt. * Hard work, as there is no greater reward than success through hard work. * Pushing the body beyond what we think it can do. Some more from the Armando article ties into this saying: If you understand how quickly this offseason workout routine makes converts of guys coming from other teams, if you recognize that assistants in the Parcells coaching tree have taken the system with them to their new teams when they become head coaches, you should then see why Parcells thinks it is so important. Agree or not with its effectiveness, but Parcells believes in it. He apparently swears by it. That is the reason I think he was so angry and disappointed that Jason Taylor isn't participating. I believe Parcells thinks Taylor is not maximizing his chances to have a great season in 2008. That is the bottom line. I am just trying to make you understand why Parcells is so torqued-off by the issue. It's like the offseason program is Parcells' baby and somebody just ignored his baby (He's talking about Jason Taylor skipping the program). I think it's obvious that as long as we have this staff running things we'll see our off season program as a huge emphasis in Miami. There will always be guys that fear injury - and it can happen in the weightroom just like it can on the field. The program can also prevent injuries and put our players at the top of their game, something they are supposed to be working towards as a professional. The guys that are not willing to do that type of work, like the Jason Taylor's of the world won't make it in Miami, and the guys that fear getting hurt or having their career shortened will choose to go elsewhere where things are easier. Let's face it, there are players that do not want to work on all levels of play. Some of them do things well on their own, others use "working alone" as an excuse not to be held accountable for training. The benefits though for us to see in last year's turnaround in Miami are just obvious. That result was exactly the type of thing you see when you have an Off Season program that builds team unity and toughness. The program also becomes a place where players and coaches see each others committment to success and a place where relationship becomes the glue that holds things together on the field when things get tough. THERE IS NO GREATER SUCCESS THAN THAT WHICH IS WON THROUGH HARD WORK
Thanks for the response - however, I do not see where we disagree. At no point did I say that the program won't be beneficial. My only point - the single, exclusive purpose of my statements - is to perhaps disagree with the blind faith that suddenly, Jake Grove, Justin Smiley, Yeremiah Bell, et al., will turn into 16 game starters because they're under Parcells' wing. Those people use the evidence of last year, where the Dolphins were admittedly quite injury free, to back up their argument. I don't think that is strong evidence. I ask, for anyone who has the time and the knowldge to compare Parcells' coached teams to league average in IR spots. If it turns out that Parcells' teams do in fact have a substantially lower average of IR, then that will be terribly compelling evidence.
Has he done it with great injury reduction results? Please show me if he has, I think that'd be great for the Dolphins.
I'd suppose being in the profession that the best evidence really is that almost everybody has an offseason program and one of the aspects considered a benefit is to become stronger, faster and more agile so that you are also better put together and less likely to injure. I think it's fairly obvious that if you and I both weigh 150 pounds (and are sililar in our genetic tendencies in growth) as freshmen in high school, and I do an off season program for 4 years in the Parcells system or something along those lines, and you do nothing that I will more than likely be stronger, faster, and more agile by the time we finish our senior year. During that senior season if we met on the field for a major collision, the odd's would favor me winning on contact, as well as my being less likely to be injured as I'd be better put together and tougher from the benefits of training. Is there statistical data to show that on the field? I'm not sure there is. Remember, EVERYONE else is doing the training too. They are likely getting similar results or why do all that work. Teams understand that a player is a huge investment and takes time to develop. There isn't time to do things that don't show results. So is there definitive proof that Parcells system is the best at injury prevention? I doubt it. However, most if not all the people considered the top of the field seem to point to him and his ideology and say - That's the best. Follow him. To me, that speaks volumns in itself... By the way, an after thought on this is something we run into at the High School level every year. We have kids do exceptionally well during their Frosh season and then struggle to do the work in the weight room at the end of the Frosh year when they are placed in the varsity Off Season program, sometimes there are a few that don't want to lift and don't think they should have to do the program. Those that refuse to do it or don't devote themselves to it often times find themselves 10-15 pounds lighter than those that did in the same grade and when the player is gifted enough to actually play some on the varsity and didn't do the Off season program, we've found that they don't hold up the full season and get banged up pretty good. Those that did devote themselves to it often times stay healthy and make it through just fine. For us as coaches, it happens so much that we are VERY reluctant anymore to start a Sophomore on varsity unless he has been doing the Off Season program because we've been burned too many times on investing starting reps to a kid that flaked on the off season, and then he gets injured or banged up and can't play leaving us with a hole on the roster.
See... this is exactly what I'm saying. Lets not count on Parcells' magical system to cure injury prone players. Despite what we saw last year, it may not make that much of a difference as far as serious injuries compared to other programs in the league.
We had a 300-yard conditioning test called the "300 yard shuttle" in my high schools offseason program, so its probably a decent assumption that it came from what your talking about. Basically you run sixty yards, back and forth for 300 yards. I know that doesnt sound too bad, but trust me its not fun. Try sprinting full speed, while having to continuously stop, plant and turn...i forgot how much i hated that thing.
2x I see your point and agree also. I'm not saying that Parcells program isn't great or that it doesn't help keep players from injury. The truth of the matter though is that some players are injury prone while others are not. To say that parcells is going to take several injury prone players and suddenly turn ALL of them around is IMHO just to much blind faith. If we take just two players from last year (Smiley and Bell), both injury prone and we cut that down by 50%; great! But now we've gone and added more injury prone players to that mix on the o-line and I think we are just asking for trouble. When we didn't have to IMHO; I hope I'm wrong but if I were a betting man I would bet against us having a injury free o-line season this year. We shall see.
I'm going to guess a part of the offseason program is: "If you fake an injury and don't play or practice when you otherwise could have and we find out about it we'll fire your ***"
Exactly. Guys that don't want to work will always be found out in his system because to be in his program you will work, coach or player. Guys that don't want to and that make excuses won't be around long.
Whatever Parcell's is doing must be pretty good with the success that has followed him where ever he's been. Honstly I don't think I have heard anybody say Parcell's system is fool proof, it just gives the player the best chance of playing 16 or more games and the least chance of getting injured. I don't care how good of shape you are in, if you get chop blocked or someone rolls up on your knee your probably going to get hurt but that doesn't mean you are injury prone. If you are being tackled and the top of the pile is pulling you one way and somebody on the bottom of the pile is pulling your legs the other way there is a good chance you will get hurt irregardless of who's conditioning program you have gone through. If there is any conditioning program that helps prepare a player for a grueling season I am willing to bet Parcell's blueprint is one of them.
Wow. Del Rio just said on NFLchannel that Jax had 15 guys on IR last year. With that high number and some players no doubt playing banged up, just how many injuries did they have in all?
