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Sporting News rates Dolphins as worst CB core in the AFC

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Straz, May 11, 2008.

  1. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Wasn't there an evaluation done by an ESPN analyst that stated that Will Allen was the top corner? There was a certain stat done on all the starting corners and Allen was one of the top ones. I sound like a complete fool but if someone knows what I am talking about, please elaborate.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    1. Scorpio.

    2. Babers.

    3. Discuss


    Three words :up:. As for the discuss part, I hope they turn out gems for us.
     
  3. CWBIII

    CWBIII Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thought these two responses by KC Joyner regarding Will Allen were interesting.

    Mikey(Lackawanna,NY): KC, Who is the best CB in the NFL right now? Who's # 2?

    KC Joyner: The best CB of any starting CB in 2007 belonged to Nnamdi Asomugha. Second on the list was Will Allen. The full list of CB YPA will be available in ESPN's Fantasy Football Guide and in Scientific Football 2008. The Guide will hit newsstands this summer and SF 2008 will be ready in early/mid-July (and is currently available for pre-order at www.thefootballscientist.com)

    Majeed: Will Allen: One of the best CBs according to Dr Z!

    KC Joyner: He gave me my career break and even though I doubted him at first on the Allen selection, he hit the nail on the head!
     
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  4. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Thats what I was talking about. Thanks so much! :up:
     
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  5. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    Look are wgle team did not have a lot of interceptions this year it is just because we did not have a whole lot of help in thw oass rush this year. I think if we can get some one to help Will Allen and take some pressure maybe he could get more interception and stop worry about helping every body else on the field

    INTERCEPTIONS
    NAME NO. YDS. AVG. LG TD
    J. Allen 3 15 5.0 13 0
    A. Goodman 2 23 11.5 18 0
    J. Porter 2 19 9.5 14 0
    D. Pope 2 0 0.0 0 0
    J. Taylor 1 36 36.0 36 0
    T. Daniels 1 29 29.0 29 0
    R. Hill 1 24 24.0 24 0
    W. Allen 1 14 14.0 14 0
    M. Lehan 1 0 0.0 0 0

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  6. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    The only thing that would help Will Allen get interceptions are new hands and better ball awareness. He just seems to have hands of cement and isn't adept at getting in there to break up plays with his awareness and hands.
     
  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    KC Joyner (football scientist or whatever) did an article on the best "vertical" DBs. Allen was tied for 7th or so.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=3374798

    Got to have ESPN Insider though.

    Might have been mentioned, but I think Dr. Z (who I respect very much, only non-hack over there at sports illustrated) ranked him in his all pro team this year too. I think.
     
  8. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Honestly guys...

    Stepping back for a second and trying my best to look at this like a non-Fins fan...

    Our secondary sucks pretty bad...seriously...

    What CAN change this is some of the pickups we got turning out to be gems...

    A few of those guys like Davis getting in the mix and working out for us.

    Bell returning in top form and not half injured form...

    But as it stands right now...man I'd kill for the secondary of 1992.

    EDIT: Just noticed that 1992 was 16 years ago...

    DAMN I am gettin' old. :no:
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  9. RealDriscoll

    RealDriscoll Banned

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    That's a little harsh. The Ravens secondary blows goats.
     
  10. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    I would not say they are bad I would say the y are getting old though

    I like the sign:up::hi5:
     
  11. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    I would not mind having the 2001 db they are nice Brock Marion, Sammy Madison, Patrick Surtan , Sammy Knight
     
  12. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think our CB situation is not as bad as many make it out to be, and Will Allen is better than many rate him. We DID give up a lot of long balls last year but if you give ANY opposing QB enough time to throw the ball the CB's can't cover decent WR's forever! Bill did the first two things he needed to do to fix this; 1. get an OL that will enable us to run the ball effectively so our D is not on the field all day, and 2. establish a DL that can put some pressure on their QB. Those 2 things alone will make our CB's and Safety's a better unit without much else being done personnel wise.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    well Padre, i'll tell you, First of all hes is an excellent blitzer, closes real nice on the QB. Secondly, from the giant game on he really played well, it wasnt noticed as much because of the horrific play off our safeties but the dude was ballin, good instincts, good speed, i think hes firmy entrenched as our #2 without default.
     
  14. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    As much as I hate to say it, our secondary is really really bad. If it isn't the worst, it has to be close.
     
  15. 124

    124 Banned

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    The Jets ranking of 11th is a joke. Darrelle Revis will soon be thought of as a shutdown corner outside of New York and even though there is a question mark at #2, they have players who have started before competiting for the job -- Hank Poteat & David Barrett.

    As for Miami being dead last, I can't really see an argument against it guys, sorry. Possibly Cleveland could be the worst since they got rid of Bodden, which I think was a mistake, but definitely not Houston as they have Dunta Robinson.

    You could make a case that your CB's are better than Cleveland's I guess.
     
  16. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    We have too many question marks with Bell staying healthy, Jason Allen's production, who will play opposite of Will Allen, etc. I really can't argue with the list either. Hopefully I'm wrong and they make me eat my words, but I just don't see it right now.
     
  17. 124

    124 Banned

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    Good ol' Will Allen. Nobody drops a potential game changing intereception like good ol' Will Allen. I remember watching him in his Giants years and lord was he just awful when it came to hanging onto the football.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Iam sorry, but i have to say it.....overrated
     
  19. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Yeah, if you're looking for INT's, you're looking at the wrong guy. But he's very good in coverage and he does a great job against the run, I just wish we had some help for him.
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good list! Only true football enthusiasts know about Nnamdi outside of Oakland.
     
  21. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    I thought I included Finnegan. My mistake. I thought he had a very underrated performance against the Chargers. I also would've included Leon Hall as well. But Will Allen over a healthy Mathis, Finnegan, Newman, Woodson, and Bodden? Eh...I don't see many non-Dolphins fans outside of Dr. Z who would say that. I would've shipped Allen to the Browns for any of those in a heartbeat (maybe not Woodson due to age). I can consider putting Allen above McKenzie but that's about it.
     
  22. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    It is pretty deep except in our case and we missed out in one of the best cornerback drafts in a long time. I know Parcells is a trench guy but I just can't understand why he didn't nab at least one CB prospect instead of drafting redundant RB's. I don't know if passing will drop because there are a number of good WR's out there and teams with more than one good one too. In fact, all the best teams have at least two WR's who could get 1000 yards or 10+ TD's easily. Not to mention the beneficial rules that go in passing's favor.
     
  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'll tell you this, Dr. Z probably knows more football than a lot of "non-Dolphins" fans put together. How many writers on a major national website would take the time to explain the "real westcoast" offense? (off-topic but here it is http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/ - good read)

    Either way, we got a real solid CB in Allen, one that we all doubted. I would love for him to learn how to catch. He needs to sit in on some WR sessions with Hagan. As long as he's covering, I'm happy. Decent corners and strong passrush, that's what I think we'll see.
     
  24. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Allen is a solid corner, but right now he's our #1 CB when he should be the #2. He just doesn't generate turnovers, and a #1 CB should be able to get the ball back relatively frequently.

    Right now, our starting CB tandem is Allen and Michael Lehan. That's not exactly Al Harris and Charles Woodson we're talking about. I'm particularly worried by the AFC East's trend towards the passing game; the Patriots won 18 games on Tom Brady's arm and Randy Moss' jumping, the Jets' receivers have always given us fits, and the Bills just drafted James Hardy.

    I hope Todd Bowles is every bit the coach he's made out to be. We need him.
     
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  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sammy Knight wasn't even part of the 2001 secondary, so I guess he was not overrated. :up:
     
  26. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Totally agree. I thought with the Chargers already having Cromartie and Jammer that they'd look to improve another position. I actually considered Terrell Thomas or Patrick Lee more with the 57th. I was a bit pissed we passed on Godfrey with our 4th. Ditto for Justin King.

    Probably but when he puts Allen over guys like Cromartie in his All-Pro team, I think either he's off his rocker or he has a man crush on Allen. I don't care if he put thousands of statisticians to work on his little chart, you don't consider Allen above a dynamic game-changing threat like Cromartie. And a majority of the time I see Allen, it's him covering a WR like Reed instead of Lee Evans.

    Agreed.
     
  27. Superself

    Superself Season Ticket Holder

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    Well when you have a team that went 1-15, it tends to be easy to rank any of that team's positions at the bottom and not get too much flak about it.
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Think about what you're saying. Who in their right mind would have a man crush on Allen? :lol:

    Cromartie had 10 Ints. We get that. I'd love for Allen to have more INts, he only had one. He did have 3 forced fumbles though, got to give him credit for that. Without looking at Dr. Z's chart I can't tell how he graded out, but remember this, Cromartie only started 8 games. If Dr. Z's system is a cumulative one, as it should be, well Will Allen can beat Cromartie out.
     
  29. BwanaZulia

    BwanaZulia New Member

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    I can't believe they put the Jets above the Bills, that seems wrong.

    Miami in the last spot, yeah, that makes sense.

    BZ
     
  30. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I never liked Allen, he wasn't that good on the Giants, but he did have a very good year last year, but even so, I have no problem with the ranking.
     
  31. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    He had a Pro Bowl year in 2007, definitely. But I'm still not happy with him as the #1 corner; he just doesn't generate turnovers. If he could get about 4-5 INTs a year, he'd be our franchise corner. He has only 10 career INTs, 4 of them from his rookie season in 2001.

    Also, one significant problem with Will Allen as the #1 corner is that it leaves Michael Lehan as the #2 corner.
     
  32. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Then he's just off his rocker, then. :wink2:

    That's why I disagree with the system. Getting 10 Ints while just starting 8 games is insane. If we could pair him up with Allen, we could call them the Yin-Yang Duo. :lol: But my philosophy on CB's is probably different than those who support Will Allen. My ideal #1 corner is a guy whose priority and abilities are to break up passes, blanket WR's, and pick passes first, run support and tackling second. Allen's the opposite of that.

    Best case scenario in my opinion is to bring in a true man-to-man corner to put on guys like Moss, TO, etc who can make the picks and be in the right place at the right time while Will Allen plays solidly against the run and the #2 WR.
     
  33. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    At this point, I'll take a corner that makes an occasional pick, but that's not a gambler like a lot of today's CBs. In today's league, I don't think there's such a thing as a shutdown corner, anyway.

    I can't disagree with Oakland as #1. Asomugha and Hall make a pretty incredible tandem. They've got decent safeties as well. Too bad their front 7 is in shambles.

    Our team has a lot of question marks. We've got a solid #1 (Allen), but not much more behind that. Bell was injured, Allen was hot/cold, and our other CB position is pretty much wide open. I can't disagree with the assessment.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see us add someone after training camp starts, someone familiar with Parcells system.
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's probably just a racking up of points. Think of minimum plate appearances so to speak. Cromartie is clearly the better CB, as I think he grades out pretty well covering (ignoring Ints, which are important but are just a few plays over the year). But if you play half the season wonderfully, you still only played half the season. If not, Ronnie Brown should be the best RB in the league. But you can't give him that award, he didn't play the whole year.
     

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