Sports Buzz ...Dolphin players who have shown marked improvent

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Sorry to see him go. Carey's decline happened pretty quickly. For a while there he was the best RT in the NFL.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit my Philbin man-crush is getting stronger.

 

I too will miss him and will remember what he did for Miami on and off the field.

 

There were two players that really stood out to me in terms of being in the right shape relative to the year before, focus, work ethic, and movement skills..Well see how that translates.

“I like what I see in Sean,” Philbin said. “His approach has been serious"

I wrote about this in detail in my first couple of practice notes, there was absolutely no goofing around on this dude, and it was evident in the most mundane secondary drills..What I noticed a lot of is when he talks about how he's keeping low coming out if his breaks..This was impressive for a man this size, he was really working on his fluidity, lowering his eye level, and flipping his hips without any wasted motion in his upper body..I'm still one of his biggest critics so he has a lot to show, but I feel confident were gonna get better play from this athletic player.

" Misi's solid camp so far includes an interception return for a touchdown early in camp and a sack in Saturday's scrimmage.*“We’re excited about his progress,” Coyle said. “He’s improving every day.."

I think the improvement of this players game is pretty important to us as a unit becoming more dominant..

He looked like a different player to me,and I'm confident you will see the same, first of all, the condition he is in is very good, I believe it was one if his problems coming out of school and being instructed to stay heavy by the last regime, he's in shape son, and he moving so much quicker, it's good to see him get a sack in the scrimmage, because that pick 6 in 11 on 11's was no joke...small sample size, some big plays, I expect better play from this player..

It's good to see that both players flashing in the first practice have continued to have good camps..They were two players that needed to find their games.

 

going little OT here but i'm just looking at OK's Twitter account and see this:

is this an answer a "professional" sports writer should give, even if he is verbally attacked like this, man if you read this guy he is so full of himself, its annoying....i dont wish bad thing happening to men, but he is clearly a guy i would wish all the worst in the world...what a douche

 

That's what happens when you do your off season conditioning at Burger King and KFC too much.

 

I'm pretty curious about how Misi is getting used in what circumstances. I think as far as we basically know he's playing off the line more.

 

Unrelated to the three guys Barry Jackson talked about but Dave Hyde just tweeted about one of my favorite UDFAs Derrick Shelby.

 

Yeah man he thinks he is better than everyone else, it's hilarious. I feel the same way, I used to read his stuff but I came to realize how

much I disagree with many of his opinions and he seems like a real sh!tty person

 

I can buy the improvements in Sean Smith and Koa Misi in the new scheme.

Not buying Jared Odrick at DE.

 

I feel for him though. I mean, look what he was responding to. Someone just decides to tweet at him and call him a *****. Who does that? And he gets that all the time. That kind of ****tiness has a way of bringing ****tiness out in others. Sure he brings it on himself at times but not all the time.

He's probably a nice guy in person. Just saying. I cringe at about 1/3rd of the things he says. He tries my patience at times, but I'm very patient, and I try not to be outwardly hateful or anything. The people that successfully stay above that kind of thing tend to be the people I admire most.

 

While true, the correct decision here would just be to ignore the tweet. Or, if it's a constant stream of insults, then just block the person(s). It's no different than the pre-Twitter action of deleting emails with the same content.

 

I've never seen someone get so much harp on how they handle their Twitter account around here than Omar Kelly... I guess Chad Johnson does to some folks. I think people just look for things to point out that they dislike about Kelly. He may be arrogant but to make it in that business you HAVE to be. People don't understand that. I went to college for communications and while I didn't step foot in any journalism class because I went to school for video production, I knew a lot of journalists... they were all *******s because that's the way it is in that business. It's cut throat and if you aren't overly confident about your work then you aren't going to make it.

It's the way the business is and you can sit here and say "well he doesn't know **** about football" but in the end the general public (key word) would rather read someone who presents themselves with confidence while lacking knowledge than someone who presents a lot of knowledge while lacking confidence in their work.

I mean I understand if you don't like his work... but someone mentioned that they wish the worst in the world to him? Really? ****ing classy.

 

I can take or leave many of his opinions, but the guy works hard as Hell and provides more info to Fin fans thru various media than anyone. Like all info, you need to filter it.

And no one needs to be abused by internet tough guys....

 

Not sure if he has the same concern myself and others do, but there's a question that a 300lb. former DT can play all that effectively if he's asked to play lined up outside of the offensive tackle. There are guys built like Odrick who have had success as 4-3 DEs. Kevin Carter, Trevor Pryce, Shaun Ellis, and Vonnie Holliday all are in that spectrum, with varying degrees of applicability. Vonnie Holliday is probably the closest example, he was a 6'5" 5.0 40 college DT who moved to 4-3 DE and was reasonably productive.

 

Two guys I didn't expect to improve, Misi and Sean Smith. Hopefully they continue to prove me wrong.

 

I think you look at the history of guys that are truly Odrick's size and you have to question them playing a true DE position in a 4-3 defense. They may be good football players, but they're run stuffers that don't get recognize and don't have the impact that pass rushers have. Right now there are only about 3 defensive ends in the league that play the game at Odrick's size or bigger. They are Red Bryan (who is actually bigger), Lamarr Houston and Leger Douzable. Between them, they had 6 sacks in 2011. Cory Redding and Jonathan Fanene are about 10 to 12 lbs lighter than Odrick and had 9 sacks between them. Everyone else is about 15 to 30 lbs lighter than Odrick. And Odrick didn't really have all that special speed or explosive measures coming out. Among the guys I mentioned above, really the only one worth a damn is Lamarr Houston in my opinion, and he was significantly faster and more explosive than Odrick at the same size.

It doesn't even really have to be about all that, either. It's about looking at the player Jared Odrick is and has always been. He was a defensive tackle at Penn State. He's been a defensive tackle in Miami, a pass rusher from that position, and has played some defensive end in 4-DL sub packages that required more of a run stopper. Putting him there full time in the base and then moving him inside to defensive tackle again during pass rush downs, I worry you're wearing him out on the base downs trying to do something that isn't natural to him and he's not really even that good at. Then you plug him into the interior to rush the passer, which is where he honestly looked the most interesting to me in 2011, and he might not be the same player in that role because you've tired him out and had him focus on defensive end all through camp and practices.

It's not going to be the end of the world for him I just think you're turning what could actually be an interesting defensive tackle that could get acclaim in this league, into essentially a Jonathan Fanene...and even though he will help and probably won't be a bad player, you're kind of capping how good he could be.

 

Shaun Ellis is about 20 lbs lighter than Jared Odrick. He's listed 285 lbs right now versus Odrick's 304 lbs listing, and when Ellis came out of college he was 280 lbs versus Odrick's 304 lbs. Trevor Pryce was anywhere between 14 and 18 lbs lighter than Jared Odrick and claimed as late as 2010 that he was still running 40 yard dashes in the 4.7's. Even Vonnie Holliday, is currently listed 16 lbs lighter than Jared Odrick right now. When Kevin Carter came out of the Draft he was 6'6" and 274 lbs and ran the 40 yard dash in 4.79 seconds. I don't think that's the same type of player either.

I think we just disagree on this. I don't think he's going to become the player he could become until he's being used at defensive tackle on a more full time basis.

 

Incidentally, the Dolphins have been trying to be coy about it but Drew Rosenhaus just said it straight up...the Dolphins are concerned with Vontae Davis' inconsistency and the starting job is "wide open" between Vontae and Drew's client Richard Marshall.

 

To me, at defensive end when it comes to pass rush, Jared Odrick is a one trick pony. Just the bull rush. That's it. When he moves inside, that's when I see more interesting stuff coming out of him in pass rush athletically.

His athletic ability is more hyped up than the reality, in my opinion. He moves well for a big man. But he ran a 5.0 in the 40 at 304 lbs and had a 29 inch vertical. We're not talking about special explosion or speed for his size.

 

Ck is right, I compared Odie's 10 yd splits vs JJ Watt and Cam Jordan and he is .10 slower then they were coming out.

 

I agree. Odrick is a GROWN MAN coming off the edge. He's not going to speed rush many guys but he has excellent hands, quickness, and a bullrush when those things fail him. He may not generate a ton of sacks but he should be good at collapsing the pocket and eliminating escape routes that QB's may use to get away from Wake. He can also be used for stunts and games from either end or DT. Add in Vernon and Westerman and I think we have a solid rotation at DE. The question will be can Starks, Soliai and McDaniel give us a good push in the middle, b/c if they can our pass rush will be one of the league's best.

 

I agree he's not a run the arc type of pass rusher. But the bull rush is a serious weapon and when T's anchor to combat it, Odrick has the ability to use his hands to disengage and enough quickness to create pressure afterwards. With Wake on the other side I think our other lineman can focus on collapsing the pocket and not giving the QB a chance to step up and throw accurately or scramble away from Wake. In passing situations, Odrick can slide inside and give us decent pressure up the middle while Vernon and Westerman come off the edge. IMO we have what looks to be a pretty solid group of pass rushers, if not a group of straight up QB sackers.

 

If Vontae isn't playing up to his potential then I'm all for putting him in the slot. I think he can impact the game just as much from that spot anyway. As a blitzer, run defender, a la Charles Woodson. I'm not discounting the idea that this is just some experimentation along those lines, or that Marshall (5 millie/season) is just having a great camp and the coaches want to reward him. Either way, our top 3 CBs are pretty damn good.

 

That's an accomplishment considering he never made the pro bowl or all pro in his career

 

I think you got it spot on. Philbin keeps mentioning every spot is available, so this is pretty much him doing two things; 1. Showing the team that there are no guaranteed spots, and even penciled in starters like Davis are not locked in, 2. Light a fire under Davis' arse. We all know he can be an all-pro caliber CB, and if consistency is his issue (which it is), maybe he has to practice better.

Funny thing is, we haven't heard much of Marshall or Davis in the camp reports, so I assumed that Davis was playing consistent since he wasn't being consistently beaten.

 

You're dead right about Odrick. I don't know if the coaches don't see it, or just feel they have no other choice at end if they. Want some run defense out of that spot.

Odrick is a motor, and anchor/ strength h player with great quickness ***for a player of that type***. He is not fast or quick relative to great DE pass rushers. At all.

This may be miscasting him the way Merling was miscast and misused. Both Merling and Odrick get their play s because of second effort and motor, not because of some amazing move they put on the OL at the snap. That. Said, Oddie is better than Merling ever way, and more suited to the interior. I always felt Merling was more of. Strong side linebacker for run downs only.

 

I think you have to rush the slot corner or OLB from Odrick's side and Oddie's job is to keep the outside blocker occupied.

 

What CK is saying is that Odrick is more one dimensional pass rushing from end so gives limited benefit and is easier for an OL to account for and handle, whereas at DT he represents a greater mismatch advantage for us against OLinemen and would give greater dividends... Except that we are using his energy, training and practice time up on the sub-optimal DE spot first so we will see less out of him when he moves to his best spot inside.

It's poor use of resources for a lower benefit than we could get from our player.


The question I have is, would any other DE be able to play the run decently, or would they be a run and screen/constraint play liability? Sometimes a staff plays a guy to avoid problems at that position, not because he's ideal for it.

 

I don't like the distinction between guys who are good at rushing the passer but not getting to him and guys who actually get to the QB. If you aren't a true threat to reach him, it doesn't affect the outcome of the play enough.

 

And the truth is, he can hurt us less from the slot if he makes a mistake in coverage. Less likely to be a TD.

 

I don't think that's on the table at the moment. If Vontae loses his job to Richard Marshall he will come on the field on nickel downs and play the perimeter spot he's always played while Marshall moves into the slot.

 

I don't think we disagree besides maybe the extent that Odrick was asked to do it last year. I'm skeptical myself that he'll be all that productive in the context of being an edge rusher.

Ultimately though I don't think some of those comparisons are far off. How much does the weight effect speed? Did Odrick end up being asked to lose weight, which seems pretty logical although speculative? How much quicker would Odrick be at 285? How much slower was Kevin Carter when he gained 30lbs. over his career, as early as Tennessee when he was still being used as a DE? If Holliday ran a similar 40 as Odrick, but was listed 15 pounds lighter, is Odrick more athletic?

 

First off the report I heard is that Odrick actually gained weight. There was a suggestion that he had gotten down to 285 last year or somewhere about there, and this year he's back to over 300 lbs.

As for being lighter, I don't necessarily think it makes you a lot faster but it does make you quicker, more explosive, more agile. I do consider it significant that even the guys you would want to cite as having the "similar" body types are 15 lbs lighter...and most of the rest of the field are all 30 lbs lighter.

 

I think the move to a 4-3 base will help Odie out a lot as now instead of blitzes, we have to run Dline games to generate pressure and his size speed mix let's him be a good candidate to run stunts and x games etc.

I'd guess he will slide inside when Wake moves to LDE and Vernon comes on the field and Wake/Odie makes for a lot of options.