Inside look at some of Dolphins' young players and Ross' decisions
### Guard/tackle Dallas Thomas: Last season’s third-round pick didn’t show nearly enough to earn playing time (just two snaps all season), despite the offensive line’s deficiencies.
“He’s got a lot of physical upside but needs to mature as a professional,” a team source said. “He can be a quality backup at least. I don’t know if he has the intangibles to be a starter. It was disappointing that he didn’t [show enough] to play.”
Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...s-defense-on-donofrio-heat.html#storylink=cpy
-
Barry Jackson Sports Buzz 02/09 - '13 draft class in 2014, Ross, Hickey, RBs
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...changes-goldens-defense-on-donofrio-heat.html
NolesNPhinsFan and Da 'Fins like this. -
Dion Jordan not projected as a 2014 starter????...well that doesn't tickle my taint.
MonstBlitz, Bpk and Da 'Fins like this. -
-
-
Guest
gafinfan likes this. -
-
-
A 1st AND a 2nd....**** u Jeff you garbage arse bum.
-
Bpk likes this.
-
As far as him being on the edge, I think it's pretty well known that Jason Taylor played DE at about 240lbs for a good stretch of his career. I think if he's able to use his natural length and get stronger, you can teach him how to use that and create more leverage. He's familiar with playing on the edge and as an one the line of scrimmage LB. Why take him away from it and start him off a square one? I just don't see the value in it both from the viewpoint of maximizing what Jordan's good at and building on that, as well as from the financial standpoint of the contracts already at LB.
I get putting him as a SAM OLB in this defense, but I think Koa Misi pretty much holds a monopoly on that, rightly or wrongly, in the eyes of the coaching staff. If you could put Jordan there and move Misi to where Wheeler's playing, I think it'd work, but that's moving around a lot of parts and even then I don't think Misi could do it as effectively. -
To demonstrate that, take a look at this play from this past year vs. the Steelers. It's later in the season when Miami's run defense started performing better, up until wilting the final two weeks of the season. This play is a microcosm of what plagued them this past year and I doubt putting Dion Jordan where Philip Wheeler is in this play is going to produce a better result.
Pittsburgh motions into an offset I formation strong to their right, Miami's left. The Dolphins are in a standard Under front with Vernon at RDE, Odrick at 3T, Soliai at 1T and Wake at LDE. Wheeler is lined up as a true Will in a 40 technique with Ellerbe up the middle and Koa Misi as true SAM outside of Wake. Pittsburgh runs a weakside counter play with the RG and FB pulling back to the left. The result is a 5 or 6 yard gain with Koa Misi coming across the the whole formation to make the tackle with Chris Clemons. Some key things to watch:
1) Jared Odrick gets doubled at the snap and goes to a kneed to try and split the double team and almost gets himself back into the play. Paul Soliai does a nice arm-over move and reads the RG DeCastro pulling but gets caught up on the leg of the center and the double team block on Odrick spilling the play outside which is the proper technique. Cameron Wake and Koa Misi take on the RT and TE respectively and set the edge.
2) Olivier Vernon reads the open window but doesn't get up field far enough to wrong-arm DeCastro who is pulling around. If he does that, he forces LeVeon Bell back into the pile for a minimal gain. Or, he forces Bell outside giving Philip Wheeler a shot at making the tackle for no gain. He didn't play it correctly, but played it well enough to give Wheeler a 1-on-1 tackle chance. If OV makes his step harder up the field he doesn't get pinned back inside by DeCastro's counter block. This is where I think having someone with the length and athleticism of Jordan could have helped this play.
3) Philip Wheeler does everything right, he reads the double team on Odrick and moves outside; standard closed window read and squares up to tackle Bell. He did everything right, took the right steps, though I'd argue his step should have been harder toward the LOS. But he's right there to make the stop...but whiffs. Badly.
4) Dannell Ellerbe has an open-window read as the playside guard pulls backside on the counter and Soliai crosses the center's face. Ellerbe steps into the gap slow and then gets tripped up on the centers legs. I think he gets false-keyed here, which is what the counter is supposed to do as it doesn't look like Ellerbe's on a run-blitz. Ellerbe should have pursued laterally but got influenced by the open window read.
5) Koa Misi gives real nice effort here disengaging Heath Miller's block and scraping back to the play to make the tackle.
In short, I think if you put Dion Jordan at Will LB in place of Wheeler on this play 1 of 2 things happens. I think he either gets caught up in the wash of Odrick's double team block and isn't able to step down into the back, or he shoots so far up field he runs himself right into David DeCastro and takes himself out of the play and lets Bell get the corner for a bigger gain.
As for the whole defense, these simple breakdowns happened quite a bit. I hope that some of that is mitigated by not having George Edwards as the LB coach. I think Mark Duffner is savvy enough to help get guys like Ellerbe and Wheeler to read their keys and take their steps better. Hopefully Olivier Vernon is a year wiser and knows in that situation to come upfield more or you have Dion Jordan strong enough to use his length to be able to spill that run outside even more to give Wheeler an advantage in making the play. I just don't see Jordan fairing any better than Wheeler, and while I doubt that makes much sense on tape, I'm basing that off Jordan's always having had a simple upfield read to make because in this case it looks as if Wheeler's primary read is the tackle who blocks down, then his eyes move to the FB #46 and sees the counter block and you see him step outside of OV. I just don't trust Dion Jordan to be able to do that correctly in a manner quickly enough to make that play.
To summarize this play had 3 culprits. OV stepped wrong which is the first mistake. Ellerbe got false-keyed and took himself out of the play, then got tripped up to the point he couldn't recover. Wheeler did everything right but whiffed on the tackle. At the end of it you've got your SAM backer coming 10-15 yards back across field to make the tackle with your strong side safety (Clemons in this case as Jones was in a single-high look) making the tackle for a 5 or 6 yard gain.
But, I do see some of the things Kevin Coyle was trying to do later on in the year when he made Wheeler and Misi more true WILL and SAM LBs as opposed to early in the year when he simply kept things at left and right. Once that switch was made the defense got better, but I do think it took away from Cameron Wake as he wasn't always on the open-side of the defense as he was in 2012. That's one thing I think he'll be better at this year when he's 100% healthy and it's also why I think if they can maximize Dion Jordan's full potential as that open-side DE he's going to be really, really good there.UCF FINatic, PerfectTeam, Limbo and 1 other person like this. -
Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member
And, even if you like Misi on early downs, the league is so pass oriented, they could use Jordan there early. Or move Misi to the middle (not getting why they don't explore that - he's tougher at the point of attack than any other LB).
But, it bugs me that they think Jordan needs to bulk up before he can be an every down player. That's fine if he does, and certainly he can get stronger. All for it. But, Jason Taylor was always consistent against the run (though some shallow-minded pundits used to criticize him about that - unjustifiably). And, Taylor played virtually his entire career at 6'6, 240, 245 (though listed at 255). Jordan is equal or bigger in bulk than Taylor ever was. What made him potent against the run was his quickness. I think Jordan can do the same thing.
It is bothersome that they don't think the #3 pick in the draft is going to be a starter in his second year. What the crap does that say about the pick? Good grief. If he doesn't start year two (barring injury) that would be a big fail, imo.Bpk likes this. -
Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member
-
Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member
First, of course, it's one play.
But, second, I think you give way too much credit to Vernon. He blows the play. Should have hit DeCastro from the other side and caved it in. Or, if Jordan were there, ala JT, he should have crashed into the backfield and blown up the play or delayed it. Crashing in along the LOS just allows him to get caught up in the wash and it creates a one-on-one with the OLB.
The lack of "up-field" attack in Miami is one of the flaws of their defense, imo. In this league I think you have to have ends that crash upfield with power and force or speed. The "read-react" stuff kills you unless you have exceptional players.
I don't care who you are - that's a great scenario for any OC. I want my RB one-on-one with the OLB every down. If he can't beat him, I'm getting another RB. That whole play was a failure.
The point you raise about Wheeler is spot on with respect to his crashing the LOS. He should have busted up the field when Vernon caved inside and he'd have hit Bell in the backfield before he had time to get started. Once Bell got his legs going, he had the time to juke and beat Wheeler.
Both Wheeler and Ellerbe are just timid, non-physically dominant players. I doubt Hickey has the guts to be drastic, but I would look to replace both. Treat both as just average guys and bring in competition. But, I think Miami has the potential to be a much more attacking front 7 and needs to go that route. -
He said, and i paraphrase, " a lot of people seem to love joe Philbin the man, I sure hope he coaches as good.".. It was followed with fake laughter and uncomfortable tones..and imo that sentence and that tone showed me he wasn't his guy. -
Jordan will not play OLB in Coyle's defence. Unless they replace Coyle with a 3-4 DC, Jordan will be a DE. I heard a coach say once in a press conference that they want Jordan at 270lbs. This is what Michael Johnson's weight is at. So Jordan needs to get bigger and take on blockers in the run game. He needs to be disciplined, stay in his gap and not cheat to the inside. If not he will not start.
The stuff on Jamar Taylor is encouraging given Coyle's DB coaching background. Will Davis has upside and we all know Dallas Thomas is a lost cause. The OL needs a major overhaul and Hickey better know his FA OL because we need to be major players when the bidding starts. -
Just because Taylor could do it, that doesn't mean that Jordan has that same skill set. What he is is a tall, lanky, strong and fast defender with great quickness and acceleration, a very good pass rusher and a player with very high end coverage skills, especially against bigger TEs with his speed, quickness and 6-6 height.
At DE Jordan is often getting stonewalled by OT's- if you have a rare athlete who is phenomenal in space but struggles on the line against OT's, why keep him there? His strengths lie elsewhere- Cameron Wake, there's a guy who belongs at DE, not OLB. Jordan's skill set screams out OLB- screw Wheeler, bench him, we traded up to the #3 overall pick to utilize this guy's vast talent and potential. Why not do that? Forget about the Jason Taylor size comparisons, Jordan is not cut out to be a DE. -
-
-
MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member
-
MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member
-
-
soliai, odrick, wake, vernon
misi ellerbe jordan
pass downs:
vernon jordan ordrick wake
ellerbe jenkins
Wheller and shelby as main reserves ATM -
-
at the end of the day it really doesn't matter, he's gone. My point is in the beginning, everyone likes each other, there's no reason not to. We'll see how they get along if we have a losing season with Hickey's rookies barely seeing the field. -
-
jim1 likes this.
-
Rocky Raccoon likes this.
-
I'd consider that baffling, but with everything that happened with the 2013 Miami Dolphins it may as well fit right in. -
At a certain point, I think it's his responsibilities rather than his position, and his snap count rather than starting position that matters.
I don't care if he doesn't start a game, he should be breaking 500 or so snaps at least next year. The Dolphins are really deep at edge defenders, and they should have a rotation. I think late last year they got a pretty good idea of how to best use Jordan, Vernon, and Shelby along with the established roles of Wake and Misi.
The position doesn't matter so much in my mind as long as he's an edge defender, and gets significant snaps in coverage. As long as he's at a wider technique in the base package, I think we're fine. I'm OK with him going from DE to LB from base to Nickel, rather than the reverse. They're going to put him in interesting and complex coverage situations, which is the important thing.djphinfan likes this. -
-
Fin D likes this.
-
MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member
-
MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member
-
-
MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member