I love these young corners but Smith absolutely HAS to tackle better. Hes too big (albeit thin) to be so afraid to lay a hit. Its a glaring weakness that jumps out everytime I watch last years games.

Davis on the other hand is a pitbull of a corner with all the potential in the world.

 

VD...gonna be real nasty this year..

This kid is explosive, and can do whatever he wants athletically on the field, I think he's instinctive, good IQ, and best of all, he's a dangerous tackler..Gotta high ceiling on him..

I haven't agreed with folks who have Smith projecting to be better, haven't since the get... Vontae is a fast twitch brick sh$# house man...

 

The Charles Woodson part is great. The Al Harris part... well, I suppose it's better than nothing.

If Vontae develops anywhere near the level of Woodson, we're set for a decade.

 

I wouldn't mind if he is the next Al Harris. He could do better than that, but being Al Harris is fine.

 

I sure hope they've improved as much as they say they have. Not that they were bad last year for being rookies, but we need them to be great this year. Like Holliday said, if you're going to be aggressive and send alot of pressure, you need your corners and safeties to be good. No doubt in my mind these two are going to be excellent for us this year, I'd be surprised if they werent.

 

Hoping every day these two turn into Madison and Surtain for us and becoe the lockdown CB duo for MANY years to come.

If these two can step it up and break out this season, that could go a ways to helping our worries at FS as well, I hope.

 

Exactly my concern, they were toasted last yr, if that happens early this yr, then Nolan won't blitz as often, and our base 3-4 personnel is bereft of passrushers.

We could be back in the situation were 3rd and longs are easily converted..again..that is unless Koa Misi magically finds a passrushing talent that was hidden in Utah..

It's not all gloom and doom though:

Marques Douglas is an upgrade over Phil Merling.

 

``I'm totally different now,'' Davis said. ``I didn't have technique before.''

Camarillo sees it: ``Vontae is probably the best athlete on the team, and he relied on athleticism at first. Now, he has greatly improved his technique and covering routes.''


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/2...#ixzz0uhuUDMns

I criticized Davis heavily for this specific reason. In fact, it was my primary concern when we drafted him. It is so nice to hear that somebody got through to him after it clearly didn't happen at Illinois.

I do think that on physical talent alone Davis has more potential than Smith, but I do not think that Smith will be a disappointment. IMO Smith has very little bust potential b/c he has fantastic natural instincts. CBs with that trait rarely bust. What I saw in Smith last year was an athlete that played tentatively far too often. In other words, he often played like a rookie. In fact, I would say that he played better than Davis for most of the year. Davis really made a jump over the last three games or so and IMO passed Smith at that point, but I see that as a credit to Davis rather than as a knock on Smith. I expect that we'll see a less tentative Smith this season and that less tentative Smith is a more natural play maker than Davis is, at least with the ball in the air. In my experience fans tend to get too caught up in the players that make the big hits and tend to over rate their play.

 

Too often fans want rookies to play like seasoned veterans which leads to over expectation. You have to give our two young CB's time to develop. If you can't have that kind of patience there just might be something wrong with you as a fan. :wink2:

 

I guess that would explain why Smith didnt get any picks last year.

 

yeah this. anyone expecting perfect technique from a rookie is going to miss the boat on a ton of players. Give them time to develop. Three to four years for many positions other than running back which should be one or two

 

am I enamored with the way Vontae plays the run ?, mos def, for good reason, However, I also see how Vontae's exceptional athleticism allows him to mimmick his receiver better than Sean at this point....I trust vontae on the inside redirecting with smaller quicker types, I don't with Sean..When Vontae made a mistake, he was usually right there with the receiver, when Sean did, he was usually in a trailing position..I don't see the redirecting issues with Vontae as I do with Smith...

But I sure do love having both competing for braggin rights...all signs point to them wanting to be great, I absolutely love the way their handling their business as a duo..I think they realize if they both achieve what their capable of athletically, their gonna be rich and famous.

 

*EDIT* Sorry I messed up the quotes. Was from Rafael (not to point fingers).

"I do think that on physical talent alone Davis has more potential than Smith, but I do not think that Smith will be a disappointment. IMO Smith has very little bust potential b/c he has fantastic natural instincts. CBs with that trait rarely bust."

I agree. I dont see Smith as a potential bust. But I personally did not see any outstanding instincts.


"In other words, he often played like a rookie. In fact, I would say that he played better than Davis for most of the year. Davis really made a jump over the last three games or so and IMO passed Smith at that point, but I see that as a credit to Davis rather than as a knock on Smith."

Both played like rookies and were burnt more than once. Smith has nice coverage skill yes, but his inability to tackle is embarassing to watch. I dont think he played better than Davis at all, cept maybe that preseason game where he had a nice 1 hand grab against the Saints.


"I expect that we'll see a less tentative Smith this season and that less tentative Smith is a more natural play maker than Davis is, at least with the ball in the air. In my experience fans tend to get too caught up in the players that make the big hits and tend to over rate their play."


I dont see Smith ever being better than Davis, but ive been wrong before. Davis was the one making plays with the ball in the air last season.

His tackling should not be overlooked. Dont lump me in with the people overrating him just because of his hitting ability, but I think your overlooking it yourself.

Vontae is extremely feisty, competitive, and fearless. Those traits that can lead to big hits that cause fumbles. I did not see any of those traits in Smith. Vontae challenged EVERY pass that came his way. He shows hunger. Smith showed me nothing.

All that said.....Im not playing favorites. This is what ive seen watching the games over and over. JMVHO

 

Smith's style usually has him play in a trail position b/c of his exceptional length. That's the advantage of being a tall CB.

Smith showed far more natural instincts for the position than Davis. That was why Smith was moved in as a starter first. That was despite the fact that Smith only had two years playing CB (he was a WR convert) compared with Davis who has been playing CB since HS and has around 5 or 6 years more experience at CB than Smith. Smith played RB and was a KR in HS. I do think that is a factor in their tackling ability as well although IMO Davis is much more natural in run support and will always be a better tackler.

The reason I believe that people over rated Davis was that for most of the season his technique was horrible. They saw the tackles and didn't notice the technique deficiencies. He was a guy getting by on his athleticism and when you do that you don't get better. It wasn't until about the last three games or so that I saw Davis stop repeating the same mistakes. That is a credit to Davis b/c he never improved at Illinois so it was no given that he would improve in the pros. That means either the coaches or team mates figured out a way to reach him or Davis himself figured out that he needed to improve his technique to reach his potential.

Smith, on the other hand, made mistakes but not the same ones repeatedly. Except that it seemed to me that he was always sitting back and waiting rather than attacking. In college he was the opposite. He had that WR mentality when the ball was in the air where he assumed it was his. I think it is likely that he was just going through what most rookies do and was just thinking out there rather than playing. I expect that we'll see the much more instinctive version of Smith this season. I would not be surprised to see each guy get 4+ ints this season.

 

Seems to me like your over analyzing a little bit. Just watch the games without all the back knowledge from his college days.

I dont really buy the whole "hes trailing the receiver because hes tall". He was out of position or got ran by in my book. And I doubt anyone (not just you) can really claim that he never made the same mistake twice when we dont know all his assignments. I really didnt see many mistakes from Smith. I just saw kind of a bland year in comparison with Davis'.

Maybe Smith was the starter because he grasped the playbook better, or is just a fast learner. Saying Smith had far superior technique is a stretch imo. The dude didnt make a single play that I can recall except 1 pass break up on a high throw to T.O. by Edwards against the Bills.

To your credit you know your stuff as far as their history goes! But to me alot of that is irrelevant. What matters is who is playing better right now, in the NFL. Right now I think Davis is head and shoulders ahead of Smith and has the physical capabilities to be one of the best.

I dont mean to sound rude. Just different view points. :up:

 

serious/precarious experience deficit
in the defensive backfield w/Smith, Davis & Clemons
as projected starters it leaves only Yeremiah Bell
@ the StongSafety to manage the field

not a worthy ship to set sail in NFL waters :no:

look for the two Allens to step up somewhere in the process:
Jason should get a shot @ FreeSafety & Will @ the Corners

 

I really like how Davis came on strong during the second half of the year. The first game against the Pats I think we saw a glimpse of what Davis will be. He was playing man on Moss and really stood his ground with a pick and a few deflections. He did give up a td but it wasn't that he was out of position it was a jump ball that really either could've came down with. I really want to see Smith in the pre season and see if he has improved he looked very timid several times last year but can jump and does have good length.

 

Sean Smith had some reliable weaknesses and it's the reason you see him working on his lateral agility at the line.

He was a pretty bad tackler too.

But he stayed true to his technique a lot more than Vontae Davis did IMO. He also busted his assignments less. There's a reason Smith was the Day One starter and Vontae inherited the job by injury.

For Sean Smith, the big plays will come. He had opportunities. He let them slip through his fingers literally and figuratively. He was trying too hard...in many ways. I think once a few games went by and he saw others getting interceptions and not him, that psyched him out a little bit. You have to know a player's history to understand what you see in front of you, I don't buy this bit about setting aside the player's history and just looking at what you see. Their history goes into their mentality. Sean Smith was a big play guy at Utah. He had like 9 interceptions in two years, which were really the first two years he'd played defense at all.

They'll both be good. Vontae has the ability to be a complete corner in every way, but he's not showing it and you never know if he ever will. I'm not sure Smith will ever be complete. But right now, Smith is the better cover guy for sure. More reliable.

 

Both were thrown to the wolves last season and should be better this year.Nothing like on the job training.

 

and this worries me considerably
couple that w/ the even less experienced Clemons
you have a potential recipe for a disaster

 

Well, I'm not just saying Smith had better technique or that Davis had none b/c of history. I'm basing it on what I saw on the field. I get that most fans can't figure out if the CB is using proper footwork or can't even tell what coverage responsibilities a CB has. And admittedly there are limitations for any tv viewer b/c we usually don't get to see the secondary except for in glimpses. Most fans just base how good a CB is by how close he is to the WR when the pass is thrown. But you can make some decent guesses as to a CBs responsibilities from their alignment pre-snap. And you do get to see them start their coverage. When you watch Davis you saw a guy that had horrid footwork when he was flipping his hips to run with the WRs. He also had a tendency to get too high in his back pedal. Davis was a guy that got by with his great burst. Smith's footwork and hip flip was easily superior. He stays nice and low and rarely crosses his feet or turns too soon. Davis consistently fell for double moves, in fact that was a common theme most every time they showed him getting beat. Where I saw Smith struggle was when he was asked to play off. He just doesn't have great burst coming off the back pedal especially off of a cut to the inside. In those case Smith would allow himself to drift inside rather than moving forward to lessen the space. It seemed to me that he was worried about getting beat and was just allowing the pass to be completed in front of him. The other mistake Smith made was that he would take poor angles when he did try to be aggressive. I did read a quote from Smith where he said that he was jumping routes anticipating lower trajectory passes like he often saw in college. NFL QBs tend to have a little more touch. Smith is better when he gets to play man b/c he can use his hands and just sit on the WR's hips. He seems to understand receiver routes better and doesn't guess wrong very often. I expect that going forward we'll see more of Smith's superior ball skills like we saw in the pre season. Davis will always be better in run support but he'll show more discipline on those double moves. He has decent but not great hands so I don't know that we'll see a huge jump in INTs but with improved technique and his superior burst he should be able to have a chance knock down most any *** attempted against him.

 

Well put. Both should be very good in their unique ways. I agree that Sean Smith being a receiver should give him the better ball skills. He just didnt get much of a chance to show it off. Heres hoping for a dominate combo.

 

again I say:
the defensive backfield worries me
two newbies @ the corners
barely wet behind the ears
coupled w/ the even less experienced Clemons
& you have the recipe for a disaster
in the defensive backfield. not a good thing :no: