Sports Buzz ....Tanny gets rave reviews...Scout disses our WRs

"CrunchTime wrote:

:up:

Apparently there are some Scouts who are not buying into our WR situation

Maybe they didnt get the memo that this offense does not require diva receivers.:wink2:

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/#storylink=cpy

Should we value the opinion of a....former Brown's scout?

I definately lack confidence in our recievers. I think this year is going to be kind of a "wait-and-see" year, where we have a bunch of unproven talent that needs to step up to the next level. We will have to throw them all at a wall and see what sticks....

Miami could use help at wide receiver, but there's no way in hell they are the worst.

We arnt great at WR and i think we are on paper, one of the worse. I wont change my opinion on that. I will change my mind when i see production out of the WR's we have.

Much hinges on young, unknown and unproven players.

As it stands, this is the least intimidating group in the NFL. That could change, but it is what it is right now. I imagine our tight ends will be utilized a great deal.

I have severely low expectations for the WR group so any thing better than worst will be a surprise. This year to me is all about the development of RT, hopefully this unimpressive group doesn't impede that.

There is still a chance we can pick up Driver if our receivers remain unimpressive .When our best receiver is Julius Pruitt it does give one food for thought

Bess and Hartline will be valuable contributors, they've both posted 800 + yards seasons as secondary targets in run oriented offenses. That's two certainties. Two more than the Rams or Browns have. Many teams only have one go-to guy and a bunch of question marks. We have a player in Gates with gamebreaking ability, that was probably most affected by the lockout last year. Between Wallace,Moore,Pruitt,Cunningham,Mathews,Fuller... we're looking for 2 rosterable backups and PS guy. It's not that bad, especially considering the type of offense, which spreads the ball around and utilizes multiple TEs. We do have Bush, Miller, Egnew, and Clay who all can split wide.

It's become clear to me since this draft that we'll go big at WR next year, just like it was obvious after last year that we would go big at QB this year. By 2013 we'll be turning it over to RT... the WR depth will be settled, and we'll target a big-time wideout with a high pick or trade.

Pruitt has always been a mystery to me. This is going to be his 4th season on the team, so somebody must like him. He's withstood years of the dreaded roster churning. It seems like every preseason I read about him making some nice plays in the inter-squad stuff and then he never saw the field in preseason games. I guess we'll find out for sure this year as I don't think he's eligible for the PS anymore.

"Muck wrote:

Much hinges on young, unknown and unproven players.

As it stands, this is the least intimidating group in the NFL. That could change, but it is what it is right now. I imagine our tight ends will be utilized a great deal.

There's loads of teams that are at best comparable to what the Dolphins haven now. The Broncos, Browns, Jaguars, Jets, and Rams all come to mind.

This is the Walsh offense. You don't need great WRs to run it successfully. You need a smart, accurate QB and a group of wideouts who can run good, clean routes, get some separation, and can catch the ball. Miami has guys who can do that.

Offensively, my main concerns are at QB, on the right side of the OL... maybe at TE... but, not at wideout. Not until the QB position is solidified.

We are going to be inclined to be skeptical about wrs because of misses there by Ireland. With the continued piling on by critics and fans on this wr corp I am pulling for them big time. If I am Philbin or the position coach I am using this media stuff to motivate. Articles this morning panning Wallace and Moore for the terrible year they had last year. Questioning Gates pick and multiple articles on his injury. Serious panning on Cunningham. Fuller, an undrafted free agent, is getting as much if not more media time than Cunningham. I am pulling for BJ. The big question is: Is it total lack of talent this year or will it be the way they are utilized? I am not an Omar Kelly fan, but I agree with him on this . Don't even talk to me about the wrs until they put on pads and run in this offense.

"Larry Little wrote:

This is the Walsh offense. You don't need great WRs to run it successfully. You need a smart, accurate QB and a group of wideouts who can run good, clean routes, get some separation, and can catch the ball. Miami has guys who can do that.

Offensively, my main concerns are at QB, on the right side of the OL... maybe at TE... but, not at wideout. Not until the QB position is solidified.

Our QB situation isnt set with Tannehill being a Rookie and Moore and Garrard backups in many ppls eyes. Elite WR's can run good and get separation and can catch. They often get QB's out of trouble by making plays. Bess and Hartline dont make enough plays. Thats just my opinion. Egnew will help. Lets see. Should be a good battle at WR in training camp and pre-season.

Skeptical indeed, especially with Gates..... He's the most gifted athlete on the offense, after Bush. But still very raw, coming into his first full offseason now while learning the WCO. He'll battle the rest of em, but I'd assume he'll be given every opportunity to win! As for the rest....there's got to be a keeper or 2 in there ! Many/Most would find work elsewhere.

"Larry Little wrote:

This is the Walsh offense. You don't need great WRs to run it successfully.

True. It's not like Walsh had a WR whom is widely considered to be the greatest wide receiver of all time and is considered by many to be the best NFL player to ever play football. :tongue2: :pointlol:

The key factor that continues to be forgotten is the new offense. It is a Walsh offense, and it doesn't require the "Marshall" role. This offense requires receivers that can play multiple parts and know how to run routes. The common ground among all the Dolphin rookies is "route" running. No one is asking them to beat corners down the sideline. The offense is methodical, and sequential. You will get the big play, but it is set up by much more subtle gains. Many of the critics, fan and national media, are judging this group based on the old offense. Look what the Patriots did last year with a less than intimidating receiver corp. They utilized mismatches with the tight ends and with Welker. Can Gates or another guy be the Welker type? The best mismatches right now on this team are at tight end and running back depending on the development of Egnew, Clay, Miller, and Gates. You would hope Bush is already there.

"Sceeto wrote:

True. It's not like Walsh had a WR whom is widely considered to be the greatest wide receiver of all time and is considered by many to be the best NFL player to ever play football. :tongue2: :pointlol:

But he was not a speed guy, and many of the same arguments against him are being made against some of the Dolphin rookies. Jerry Rice was not fast, many argued he couldn't separate, and many said he wouldn't scare anybody. He thrived in that offense because he was a perfect match to it.

"Lee2000 wrote:

But he was not a speed guy, and many of the same arguments against him are being made against some of the Dolphin rookies. Jerry Rice was not fast, many argued he couldn't separate, and many said he wouldn't scare anybody. He thrived in that offense because he was a perfect match to it.

IMO Rice's biggest strengths were his ability to stay in balance throughout the route and then transition from catch to run. It wasn't so much his speed, but rather his ability to do everything at a consistent speed. That's very key in a timing offense. People think that the WCO requires size, but I don't think that's as important as his balance and body control You prefer the WR to be big enough so that he can take hits without it disrupting his timing, but IMO that's more about balance and body control than it is about size. My concern about guys like BJ and Burress (as some are touting) is that they're big guys, but not really fluid receivers. IMO they guys who'll flourish in this offense are the ones that can do everything fluidly and make it easy for the QB to hit them on time.

"Lee2000 wrote:

But he was not a speed guy, and many of the same arguments against him are being made against some of the Dolphin rookies. Jerry Rice was not fast, many argued he couldn't separate, and many said he wouldn't scare anybody. He thrived in that offense because he was a perfect match to it.

Yeah, but it wasn't about whether he was a speed guy or not. It was a response to the comment that in Walsh's offense, you don't need a great WR and Rice was arguably the greatest in NFL history.

"Sceeto wrote:

Yeah, but it wasn't about whether he was a speed guy or not. It was a response to the comment that in Walsh's offense, you don't need a great WR and Rice was arguably the greatest in NFL history.

The greatness came with his match to the offense, not because he came into the league with fanfare like a first round pick. I think it was properly said he played with "consistent" speed and with balance. He was not a Marshall type or flashy. He wasn't going to overpower, or out run, but he was focused, kept his routes, and used proper skills to create separation. He was an unbelieveable worker. He honed his craft. But he was in a great offense that allowed him to build his strengths. His skills were a perfect match for the west coast offense. You are arguing that he was great coming into the league and his greatness is what made the offense. My argument is that the offense allowed him to show his skill set. Not sure what he would have looked like in a different offense.

"Lee2000 wrote:

The greatness came with his match to the offense, not because he came into the league with fanfare like a first round pick. I think it was properly said he played with "consistent" speed and with balance. He was not a Marshall type or flashy. He wasn't going to overpower, or out run, but he was focused, kept his routes, and used proper skills to create separation. He was an unbelieveable worker. He honed his craft. But he was in a great offense that allowed him to build his strengths. His skills were a perfect match for the west coast offense. You are arguing that he was great coming into the league and his greatness is what made the offense. My argument is that the offense allowed him to show his skill set. Not sure what he would have looked like in a different offense.

On the bold part: I am? Wow. I don't recall typing anything of the sort. I'll have to go reread my comments. I thought that I just responded to the comment that Walsh didn't need great WRs to successfully run his offense by mentioning that he had arguably the greatest WR of all-time. I didn't mention Rice's specific skill set. I never mentioned that it was his greatness that made the Niner's offense, though it definitely did help, no? :pointlol: Believe me, I'm well aware of Jerry Rice's skills and strengths, etc. Also, he was pretty good coming into the league. His NCAA record for total career touchdown receptions stood until 2006.

Jerry Rice attended Mississippi Valley State University (from 1980–1984) becoming a standout receiver. He acquired the nickname "World" because there wasn't a ball in the world he couldn't catch.

Rice had a record-setting 1983 campaign, including NCAA marks for receptions (102) and receiving yards (1,450)

.

Rice scored 5 TDs twice that year. He finished his career with 301 catches for 4,693 yards and 50 touchdowns (some sources have the numbers as 310, 4,856 and 51); his NCAA record for total career touchdown receptions stood until 2006,

Rice was named to every All-American team (including the AP squad) and finished 9th in Heisman Trophy balloting in 1984. In the Blue Gray Classic all-star game played on Christmas Day, he earned MVP honors. Rice wore No. 88 in college, but he switched to No. 80 in the pros.

In the spring of 1999, the school renamed its football stadium from Magnolia Stadium to Rice-Totten Field in honor of Rice and Totten. Rice was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame on August 12, 2006.[4]

"Sceeto wrote:

Yeah, but it wasn't about whether he was a speed guy or not. It was a response to the comment that in Walsh's offense, you don't need a great WR and Rice was arguably the greatest in NFL history.

Walsh's offense didn't begin or end with Jerry Rice.

"Sceeto wrote:

On the bold part: I am? Wow. I don't recall typing anything of the sort. I'll have to go reread my comments. I thought that I just responded to the comment that Walsh didn't need great WRs to successfully run his offense by mentioning that he had arguably the greatest WR of all-time. I didn't mention Rice's specific skill set. I never mentioned that it was his greatness that made the Niner's offense, though it definitely did help, no? :pointlol: Believe me, I'm well aware of Jerry Rice's skills and strengths, etc. Also, he was pretty good coming into the league. His NCAA record for total career touchdown receptions stood until 2006.

.

You don't have to give me the stats on Jerry Rice. I have been on the street named after him. I am a Mississippian. I am aware of what he has done. Maybe I misread what you were attempting to communicate. But you need not give me the history. I am very well aware of it, long before he was drafted.

"CrunchTime wrote:

:up:

Apparently there are some Scouts who are not buying into our WR situation

Maybe they didnt get the memo that this offense does not require diva receivers.:wink2:

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/#storylink=cpy

Myth. Jordy Nelson was notorious for always stealing the box of raisins in the break room at Packers HQ. Did he think he was above the law? Were the raisins really complimentary? Maybe, maybe not; doesn't excuse the brazenness. James Jones was well known for his tantrums whenever the equipment crew failed to do his laundry; especially the time he went off on the staff "I don't understand why everyone else's uniform is clean but they ignore my laundry, this isn't right". Sheesh, that guy.

The Packers had more divas in their WR corps than they are willing to admit.