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Spread Offense = Dolphin's Kryptonite

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SkapePhin, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin sigpicz.blogspot.com

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    For some reason, our defense matches up TERRIBLY against it. For this reason, if we win the division, I PRAY that we don't play New England! Even though I think the Ravens are a stronger team than NE, I couldn't stand losint to the damn Patsies in the playoffs!

    Does anyone know why we are so bad against the spread offense?
     
    HULKFish likes this.
  2. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Yes we suck vs QB's that can also run in it.
     
  3. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    our defense is completley overrated and has benefited from playing lackluster qbs/offenses......

    think about when we play good offenses/qbs....

    warner- torched
    shaub- raped us....expecially late in the game when they had the 2 minute passing offense
    cassel-murdered
    ravens- yeah they did well also....
    thigpen also did ridiculously well....


    who we looked "good" against....

    bulger, hill, wallace, russell (all bad qb's/offenses)

    its my opinion that our defense is a fraud, and WILL be destroyed against good teams....we have benefited from a nice schedule which lacks of dominate offenses....

    it wont be pretty in the playoffs, i just hope our offense has enough to get us there....
     
  4. BrazForPhins

    BrazForPhins From south

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    unfortunately, I agree with that...We get torched against power offenses

    If we sneak into playoffs, the defense worries me, seriously. Unless we incorporate a "2006 Colts"..
     
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  5. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    So who is this magical offense we'll face in the playoffs? We struggle against high powered spread offenses with strong and tall WRs.

    The Jets? They don't quite fit that mold...
     
  6. Chiefster

    Chiefster New Member

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    It does make the offense more dimensional when the defense has to account for the QB. The problem the Chiefs have with this offense is that Thigpen, especially in the second half, is not that accurate when throwing out of it.
     
  7. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    We have no pass rush.

    You get pressure, get your hands up, magical things happen.

    Our secondary is pretty good IMO. Not great. But they're not the weak link. They'd look even better if the QB couldn't sit back there and pick them apart. But we don't have a ballhawk back there.

    If we had a pass rush, I'd guarantee a win next week in NY. Favre goes all to pieces with pressure.
     
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  8. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    They've got all week to figure out how to get pressure on Favre. The good news is that he's not mobile. The pressure will be key which of course is predicated on stopping the run. Pretty simple stuff. I don't think the Jets can run the spread like New England so it hopefully won't be a huge issue. Watch out for Leon Washington. He's the biggest X factor in this one. We need to try to make Patrick Cobbs our Leon Washington. It is crucial to come out early and punch these guys in the face. They have struggled mightily and this would not be a good week for them to gain momentum.
     
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  9. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    The issue is the numbers game on paper:


    We drop seven into zone.

    We rush four.

    Two run gaps are open.



    We drop six into zone.

    We rush five.

    One zone is open.

    One run gap is open.



    The personel:


    They bring in five receivers.

    We bring in six DBs (dime) and one linebacker.



    The play:

    It's a simple read for the QB if we continually drop that one linebacker into coverage and rush the front four. If the linebacker drops into coverage, tuck it and run. If the linebacker comes on the blitz, throw it to one of the two hook zones or the middle zone. The answer to the problem very quickly becomes zone blitz. Zone blitz brings you back to the numbers game listed first in this post.

    As you can see by my response, the answer to spread is always something changing in the secondary. I saw something interesting today though. We didn't change anything in the secondary in the second half. I think the absence of Channing Crowder had alot to do with that. The adjustment that I saw was gap control from the front four. I think Porter and Roth were told to slow their rush and simply contain the QB by playing both the C and D gaps. The other two of the front four played A and B gap. In other words, they told Tyler Thigpen to stay in the pocket and beat our seven zone drops with his arm. He could not do it......
     
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  10. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Muck, I knew some would get the wrong picture from that second half. I just didn't know it would include you. :shifty: Check out my post about our second half adjustment. Porter wasn't even trying to get around the edge in the second half. I believe that was per his instruction.

    As to your comments about Favre: Favre can't run. So he doesn't present the problem we had today. Thigpen CAN run and we really were not prepared for it. I believe we adjusted pretty well in the second half. We took away his run alleys and made him pass the ball.
     
  11. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Exactly. At certain points in the game it looked like we flat out gave up on even trying to rush and sort of waiting at the line for the play to develop around the line of scrimmage.

    It's something that's certainly troubling. Our offense has been good this season, but I don't want to be getting into shoot outs with other teams. It needs to get fixed.
     
  12. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting post...i could not see the game, so I can't comment, except that 28 Chief points in the first half v. 3 in the second must mean we were doing something differently.
     
  13. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    I agree with Zod I think the Dolphins gameplan was contain Thigpen and keep him in the pocket and make him beat them with his arm and the results were positive.
     
  14. ToMaHaWk

    ToMaHaWk New Member

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    I hate to say it, but I agree with you too. I mean, we're showing that we have a winning mentality by grinding out these close wins, but I want a bona fide win.
     
  15. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    They must have instructed Porter to shadow Brandon Albert in the first half too, because he wasn't getting close to Thigpen then either.

    My opinion doesn't come from the second half of today's game. I didn't even mention today's game. My opinion comes from 15 games of the 2008 season. We struggle to pressure the QB every week. You can keep a guy in the pocket yet still make him uncomfortable i.e. collapse the pocket, be it with middle pressure, bull rushing the tackles, etc.. You don't have to stay 3-5 yards away from him. I watched the Bucs do just that to Vick for years. I just don't believe we currently have the personnel to do it with any kind of consistency without blitzing.

    We did a good job in the second half, indeed.
     
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  16. Phins12

    Phins12 New Member

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    Well, in response to one answer, the Cheifs aren't a power offense, I mean, everytime we face a BAD team, we do BAD. Which is BAD! :(
     
  17. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Hopefully we're just horrible enough to win next week.

    God I can't wait to see what we add in FA and the draft to give Porter some more help.
     
  18. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Well saying the defense is a fraud is a bit harsh. I agree that they are terrible against the spread but they did stop Philip Rivers and Jay Cutler two very good QBs. Because of that I keep them out of the fraud category although your argument does hold weight. If the Fins do make the playoffs hopefully its the Ravens they meet first as Flacco and that offense will be easier to stop than Cassell. Plus NE will have more of an in depth view of how to win vs. the Fins. I would really hate to lose to the Pats.
     
  19. RunRickyRun34

    RunRickyRun34 New Member

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    Because we have one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league. our defense is truly, bad. oh god dont even get me started on our secondary..........
     
  20. AbideN703

    AbideN703 Yes, I'd hit it

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    What the **** post is this? Did you mean to post this last year?
     
  21. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well that's only half of the teams we played my friend.

    We held down 3 of the top scoring offenses in the NFL to 20 poins or less with 3 good QBs: NY Jets, Denver Broncos, and San Diego Chargers.

    We held the NE Patriots to 13 points the first time we played them.

    I think the biggest reason we struggle against against a "spread" offense isn't so much our defensive backfield. Andre Goodman has been playing very well, Will Allen has played well, our depth has been better than expected--Jason Allen, Nate Jones, Tyrone Culver and Joey Thomas.

    I think we struggle because it takes away our pass rush. Unless we blitz, which we started to do in the 2nd half with success, we struggle getting to the QB. That is what the shotgun and short passing game does. Our team is much better against offenses that are more traditional...run the ball, QB drop back from under ceter, etc. from that aspect we can get a little bit more complex with our defensive coverages, blitzes, and scheme.

    When we line up, we don't have the ability to line up with four down rushers and get pressure on the QB. Our only consistent pass rusher is Joey Porter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2008
  22. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    GIANT PROPS ZOD, great post! I couldn't have said it better myself...

    WTH is with not feeding Ronnie the ball??? It's obvious he has a knack for the bigger play, although Ricky has been pretty solid. I hope there is a good reason there! I understand he's the better blocker but keeping him in and letting Cobbs and Ricky out? Must've been a decoy cuz he has the better hands too! I know, coaches are saving him for the JETS and playoffs?
     
  23. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Not even just spread offenses. Just good strong, tall, and decently quick (coughWilfordcough) WR's.

    Unless Favre returns to his heyday, he won't be as much a threat. Coles and Cotchery are short just above average WR's so Will Allen won't be overmatched. Then again, Jets could always just run against us.
     
  24. 2xBlown

    2xBlown Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know it doesn't seem like it, but we are tied for 6th in the NFL for sacks. Can't finish that high without getting pressure on the QB.
     
  25. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Jets' offense is another offense that gives us fits, if we don't stop the run.

    The Jets really like to attack the middle in their short passing game and take some shots deep. Although we've done a decent job lately, I think yesterday's game showed that our DBs still struggle with the ball in the air. Every time the ball was up there I held my breath.

    If the Jets can run the ball, it makes their PA passing game much more effective, as we saw with the deep Cotchery TD in the first game.

    We must stop the run and not allow any big plays--the blueprint to our success on defense all year long.
     
  26. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    All season long the Jets have struggled when falling behind early. If we can get off to a nice start like we have been, I feel pretty confident we can sit on the lead and force Favre to throw INT's all over the place.
     
  27. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    Fortunately, the Jets don't run a spread offense. And not many of the teams in the playoffs do. As Muck mentioned, our biggest kryptonite is the lack of pass rush. We have to figure out a way to rattle Favre because he DOES get rattled and, as he has gotten older, he doesn't like getting hit. (Obviously no QB ever likes getting hit, but when your body is aging, it's worse).

    We have to take some gambles and blitz against the Jets to try and get some pressure and force Favre to throw off his back foot and do what he does best: toss the ball to the wrong team. We need to really get our d-line focused on getting pressure in Favre's face. Thigpen picked us apart because of lack of pass rush from the middle. Yeah, we got him for three sacks, but the pressure wasn't anywhere near consistent. If Thigpen can do that to us, Favre can certainly do it. Pressure from the front four is paramount in the outcome of this game, IMO.
     

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