Star Wars Episode VII

"muscle979 wrote:

Ren's turn is going to have to be explained very well in future movies. It seems illogical to emulate a person who at the end decided that most of his life had been a huge mistake. This is going to need some strong writing to fix. I found myself thinking, "Is Kylo Ren not aware that Darth Vader saved Luke and killed the Emperor?" I think they've got their work cut out for them with this. The odds of the son of basically the saviors of the universe turning bad should be astronomically small. Forget that his uncle is also the last Jedi and basically becomes almost a mythological figure in the universe. They're probably going to have to paint two beloved characters as deadbeat parents. Or Luke as a crappy Jedi master. Honestly I wish Kylo Ren would have just been some power hungry kid strong with the force who emerged in his own right. I don't like the family connection, I don't think it was necessary at all. I hope Rey doesn't end up being related to any of them. There should be more than one family in the entire universe strong with the force.

Let me just say again, we don't truly learn Vader's motivation's until 2 & 3 which is the 5th & 6th movie and you guys are upset you didn't get the backstory in Ren's first movie and are demanding it in the next 2.

I also didn't want to say this earlier for the ****storm it would likely cause, but....

The only reason Vader went to the DS was because he leaned that way for a long time. I know all Jedi can go either way, but he wasn't 50/50, he was more like 70/30, considering all the feelings that belong to the DS, he had in spades and early in life, like lust, anger, vengeance, rebellious, independence (damn, just realized I'm one dead girlfriend away from being a Sith Lord, :lol:). So why is it any less compelling that....

Ren wouldn't be 70/30 or more from birth too. Considering that Leia had a lot on her plate running the galaxy and Han is not equipped to be a dad let alone a dad to a powerful "emo adjacent" jedi....is it really so crazy that Snoke was corrupting him from an early age because his parents didn't get him? We hear him say Han was a bad dad after all. Imagine if he's already leaning towards the DS like Gramps, and then Snoke starts putting bugs in his ear about how Vader went Vader for his kids and how Han can't even stop hanging with Chewie for 10 minutes to play force catch with Ren, etc. I mean, Qui-Gon & Obi Wan got to Vader early but the DS was too strong for even them to stop him, why is it so crazy to think if a DS operative got to a similar young jedi, that young jedi wouldn't go all the way to the DS early?

"Fin D wrote:

Let me just say again, we don't truly learn Vader's motivation's until 2 & 3 which is the 5th & 6th movie and you guys are upset you didn't get the backstory in Ren's first movie and are demanding it in the next 2.

I also didn't want to say this earlier for the ****storm it would likely cause, but....

The only reason Vader went to the DS was because he leaned that way for a long time. I know all Jedi can go either way, but he wasn't 50/50, he was more like 70/30, considering all the feelings that belong to the DS, he had in spades and early in life, like lust, anger, vengeance, rebellious, independence (damn, just realized I'm one dead girlfriend away from being a Sith Lord, :lol:). So why is it any less compelling that....

Ren wouldn't be 70/30 or more from birth too. Considering that Leia had a lot on her plate running the galaxy and Han is not equipped to be a dad let alone a dad to a powerful "emo adjacent" jedi....is it really so crazy that Snoke was corrupting him from an early age because his parents didn't get him? We hear him say Han was a bad dad after all. Imagine if he's already leaning towards the DS like Gramps, and then Snoke starts putting bugs in his ear about how Vader went Vader for his kids and how Han can't even stop hanging with Chewie for 10 minutes to play force catch with Ren, etc. I mean, Qui-Gon & Obi Wan got to Vader early but the DS was too strong for even them to stop him, why is it so crazy to think if a DS operative got to a similar young jedi, that young jedi wouldn't go all the way to the DS early?

You make a compelling argument.

"Fin D wrote:

Let me just say again, we don't truly learn Vader's motivation's until 2 & 3 which is the 5th & 6th movie and you guys are upset you didn't get the backstory in Ren's first movie and are demanding it in the next 2.

I also didn't want to say this earlier for the ****storm it would likely cause, but....

The only reason Vader went to the DS was because he leaned that way for a long time. I know all Jedi can go either way, but he wasn't 50/50, he was more like 70/30, considering all the feelings that belong to the DS, he had in spades and early in life, like lust, anger, vengeance, rebellious, independence (damn, just realized I'm one dead girlfriend away from being a Sith Lord, :lol:). So why is it any less compelling that....

Ren wouldn't be 70/30 or more from birth too. Considering that Leia had a lot on her plate running the galaxy and Han is not equipped to be a dad let alone a dad to a powerful "emo adjacent" jedi....is it really so crazy that Snoke was corrupting him from an early age because his parents didn't get him? We hear him say Han was a bad dad after all. Imagine if he's already leaning towards the DS like Gramps, and then Snoke starts putting bugs in his ear about how Vader went Vader for his kids and how Han can't even stop hanging with Chewie for 10 minutes to play force catch with Ren, etc. I mean, Qui-Gon & Obi Wan got to Vader early but the DS was too strong for even them to stop him, why is it so crazy to think if a DS operative got to a similar young jedi, that young jedi wouldn't go all the way to the DS early?

Not saying it can't be done or made sense of at all it's just that you don't generally expect lightning to keep hitting the exact same spot repeatedly.

This basically expects us to believe that it's not that difficult to turn people to the dark side. You're talking about 2 out of the last 3 most recently trained Jedis turning bad. I'm basically asked to believe that pretty much whoever can go to an aspiring Jedi, tell them how unfair life has been to them, promise some power, and now suddenly they're power crazed homicidal maniacs. Why weren't more Jedis being turned to the dark side of the force even before Anakin? How did they maintain order in the universe for so long being so easily turned? I can't help but wonder going off of how relatively simple it seems to be. Also Han is not the only male role model/father figure in Kylo Ren's life. He also turned his back on Luke. If Luke was training him it's hard to believe Luke wasn't giving it his full attention. Sure, things weren't perfect with Leia and Han as parents and Luke as an uncle but we're not talking about some kid going hungry in the ghetto while his mom's strung out on heroin here. Also if we're talking about Hans ability to have an impact as a father he didn't seem to have any difficulty filling the fatherly void in Rey's life.

"muscle979 wrote:

Not saying it can't be done or made sense of at all it's just that you don't generally expect lightning to keep hitting the exact same spot repeatedly.

This basically expects us to believe that it's not that difficult to turn people to the dark side. You're talking about 2 out of the last 3 most recently trained Jedis turning bad. I'm basically asked to believe that pretty much whoever can go to an aspiring Jedi, tell them how unfair life has been to them, promise some power, and now suddenly they're power crazed homicidal maniacs. Why weren't more Jedis being turned to the dark side of the force even before Anakin? How did they maintain order in the universe for so long being so easily turned? I can't help but wonder going off of how relatively simple it seems to be. Also Han is not the only male role model/father figure in Kylo Ren's life. He also turned his back on Luke. If Luke was training him it's hard to believe Luke wasn't giving it his full attention. Sure, things weren't perfect with Leia and Han as parents and Luke as an uncle but we're not talking about some kid going hungry in the ghetto while his mom's strung out on heroin here. Also if we're talking about Hans ability to have an impact as a father he didn't seem to have any difficulty filling the fatherly void in Rey's life.

I don't think so:

First of all there were a lot more good jedi then bad, but Ren killed them all. And canon has set it up that it is hard to stay away form the DS.

Honestly, and I mean no offense, but your argument is weakish. You're contradicting yourself. You don't want lightning to strike twice but you keep comparing this to that and complaining about the differences. Vader was closer to the DS his whole life, from an early age not even ObiWan and Qui Con could stop the DS from taking him, why is it so hard to believe Vader's grandson would be even more susceptible to turning?

"muscle979 wrote:

Not saying it can't be done or made sense of at all it's just that you don't generally expect lightning to keep hitting the exact same spot repeatedly.

This basically expects us to believe that it's not that difficult to turn people to the dark side. You're talking about 2 out of the last 3 most recently trained Jedis turning bad. I'm basically asked to believe that pretty much whoever can go to an aspiring Jedi, tell them how unfair life has been to them, promise some power, and now suddenly they're power crazed homicidal maniacs. Why weren't more Jedis being turned to the dark side of the force even before Anakin? How did they maintain order in the universe for so long being so easily turned? I can't help but wonder going off of how relatively simple it seems to be. Also Han is not the only male role model/father figure in Kylo Ren's life. He also turned his back on Luke. If Luke was training him it's hard to believe Luke wasn't giving it his full attention. Sure, things weren't perfect with Leia and Han as parents and Luke as an uncle but we're not talking about some kid going hungry in the ghetto while his mom's strung out on heroin here. Also if we're talking about Hans ability to have an impact as a father he didn't seem to have any difficulty filling the fatherly void in Rey's life.

I'm not sure if that's entirely fair. While Ren suggests that Han became a father figure to Rey, I'm not really sure how. 1). Han and Rey barely knew each other. 2). How would Ren even know about their relationship?

Also, I think Kylo Ren turning to the dark side fine, as long as there is a justifiable reason for it. Han said he had too much Vader in him. I think it would be kind of cool if they explored the concept of the Skywalkers being so powerful with the force, it's as much of a gift as it is a curse. Kind of like the Targs in Game of Thrones. "Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they?... What's the saying? 'Every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin.'" - Cersei. Anakin was quite literally born of 'The Force,' so irregularities in anyone of the Skywalker bloodline could be fun to explore. And it could explain why Luke abandoned his daughter, Rey.

Fin D

A great of example as to why the prequels failed. It's wholly bizarre that Lucas NEVER made any effort to demonstrate the friendship and closeness between Anakin and Obi Wan. It's hard to say that Qui Gon nor Obi Wan couldn't prevent his turn, when they barely spent time with him. If you re-watch the prequels, Anakin and Obi Wan are rarely together. And when they're, there was always tension and attitude problems between them.

One of the problems with Ren as a bad guy, is he doesn't have any characters for which to express his inner thoughts too. Which is why his meeting with Rey, at the end of the film should of been much conversational and character building. We should of learned something, instead the conversation turned to Kylo Ren trying to recruit Rey, despite the fact that she's kicking his ass and had no reason to take him seriously. Speaking of, how did Rey beat up Kylo Ren with no training of any kind? Even Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader in his first duel. And there were consequences when he turned down the Dark Side... Ren is kind of pathetic, really.

"Fin D wrote:

I don't think so:

First of all there were a lot more good jedi then bad, but Ren killed them all. And canon has set it up that it is hard to stay away form the DS.

Honestly, and I mean no offense, but your argument is weakish. You're contradicting yourself. You don't want lightning to strike twice but you keep comparing this to that and complaining about the differences. Vader was closer to the DS his whole life, from an early age not even ObiWan and Qui Con could stop the DS from taking him, why is it so hard to believe Vader's grandson would be even more susceptible to turning?

It's not an argument first of all, it's an explanation of why it has felt like lazy storytelling to me. If you don't want to offend me start off by not attempting to win something that wasn't an argument to begin with. There's no contradiction whatsoever. Not everything has to be an argument. If you're fine with, "it happened because that's what happened before so it makes sense" i'm fine with that. I just enjoy a little creativity and hope a compelling backstory is forthcoming personally.

"Clark Kent wrote:

I'm not sure if that's entirely fair. While Ren suggests that Han became a father figure to Rey, I'm not really sure how. 1). Han and Rey barely knew each other. 2). How would Ren even know about their relationship?

Also, I think Kylo Ren turning to the dark side fine, as long as there is a justifiable reason for it. Han said he had too much Vader in him. I think it would be kind of cool if they explored the concept of the Skywalkers being so powerful with the force, it's as much of a gift as it is a curse. Kind of like the Targs in Game of Thrones. "Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they?... What's the saying? 'Every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin.'" - Cersei. Anakin was quite literally born of 'The Force,' so irregularities in anyone of the Skywalker bloodline could be fun to explore. And it could explain why Luke abandoned his daughter, Rey.

Fin D

A great of example as to why the prequels failed. It's wholly bizarre that Lucas NEVER made any effort to demonstrate the friendship and closeness between Anakin and Obi Wan. It's hard to say that Qui Gon nor Obi Wan couldn't prevent his turn, when they barely spent time with him. If you re-watch the prequels, Anakin and Obi Wan are rarely together. And when they're, there was always tension and attitude problems between them.

One of the problems with Ren as a bad guy, is he doesn't have any characters for which to express his inner thoughts too. Which is why his meeting with Rey, at the end of the film should of been much conversational and character building. We should of learned something, instead the conversation turned to Kylo Ren trying to recruit Rey, despite the fact that she's kicking his ass and had no reason to take him seriously. Speaking of, how did Rey beat up Kylo Ren with no training of any kind? Even Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader in his first duel. And there were consequences when he turned down the Dark Side... Ren is kind of pathetic, really.

Agreed that Rey and Han didn't spend a ton of time together but her reaction to his death was strong so it indicates there was at least some bond.

Half of the Targaryens were crazy because they were inbred LOL.

"muscle979 wrote:

Agreed that Rey and Han didn't spend a ton of time together but her reaction to his death was strong so it indicates there was at least some bond.

Half of the Targaryens were crazy because they were inbred LOL.

Luke did kiss Leia... And Leia looked like she recognized Rey... And it would explain why Rey was abandoned. She's the imbred child of Luke And Leia and they wanted to hide their shame.

My favorite review of SW:TFA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ArHOinPHGw&feature=youtu.be

Massive spoilers warning.

"muscle979 wrote:

It's not an argument first of all, it's an explanation of why it has felt like lazy storytelling to me. If you don't want to offend me start off by not attempting to win something that wasn't an argument to begin with. There's no contradiction whatsoever. Not everything has to be an argument. If you're fine with, "it happened because that's what happened before so it makes sense" i'm fine with that. I just enjoy a little creativity and hope a compelling backstory is forthcoming personally.

I genuinely didn't mean to imply that we were arguing, I just meant "you're position". I apologize if came across aggressive, that was honestly not my intent.

"Clark Kent wrote:

I'm not sure if that's entirely fair. While Ren suggests that Han became a father figure to Rey, I'm not really sure how. 1). Han and Rey barely knew each other. 2). How would Ren even know about their relationship?

Also, I think Kylo Ren turning to the dark side fine, as long as there is a justifiable reason for it. Han said he had too much Vader in him. I think it would be kind of cool if they explored the concept of the Skywalkers being so powerful with the force, it's as much of a gift as it is a curse. Kind of like the Targs in Game of Thrones. "Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they?... What's the saying? 'Every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin.'" - Cersei. Anakin was quite literally born of 'The Force,' so irregularities in anyone of the Skywalker bloodline could be fun to explore. And it could explain why Luke abandoned his daughter, Rey.

Fin D

A great of example as to why the prequels failed. It's wholly bizarre that Lucas NEVER made any effort to demonstrate the friendship and closeness between Anakin and Obi Wan. It's hard to say that Qui Gon nor Obi Wan couldn't prevent his turn, when they barely spent time with him. If you re-watch the prequels, Anakin and Obi Wan are rarely together. And when they're, there was always tension and attitude problems between them.

One of the problems with Ren as a bad guy, is he doesn't have any characters for which to express his inner thoughts too. Which is why his meeting with Rey, at the end of the film should of been much conversational and character building. We should of learned something, instead the conversation turned to Kylo Ren trying to recruit Rey, despite the fact that she's kicking his ass and had no reason to take him seriously. Speaking of, how did Rey beat up Kylo Ren with no training of any kind? Even Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader in his first duel. And there were consequences when he turned down the Dark Side... Ren is kind of pathetic, really.

Again, Vader had none of that for over 4 movies, why are we expecting more backstory on Ren in just the first movie?

Honestly, I see mirror images in Luke and Ren. Luke was never truly tempted by the DS and Ren wasn't truly tempted by jedi side. I think people want to compare Luke and Rey because they are good guys from similar backgrounds, but I feel like Ren and Luke and their ying & yang is the crux of the story going forward.

"Fin D wrote:

Again, Vader had none of that for over 4 movies, why are we expecting more backstory on Ren in just the first movie?

Honestly, I see mirror images in Luke and Ren. Luke was never truly tempted by the DS and Ren wasn't truly tempted by jedi side. I think people want to compare Luke and Rey because they are good guys from similar backgrounds, but I feel like Ren and Luke and their ying & yang is the crux of the story going forward.

Makes sense, especially considering...

Luke was trying to save his father and lived. Ren's father tried to save his son and died. So there is something to their being a mirror image. Same, but opposites.

edit: Although, I'm not sure if Luke wasn't tempted by the Dark side. He wasn't tempted by Palp into betraying his friends and the rebels, but he did force choke some of Jaba's guards. And acted arrogant and smug to Jaba. Even threatening to kill him. Not very Jedi like of Luke.

"muscle979 wrote:

Ren's turn is going to have to be explained very well in future movies. It seems illogical to emulate a person who at the end decided that most of his life had been a huge mistake. This is going to need some strong writing to fix. I found myself thinking, "Is Kylo Ren not aware that Darth Vader saved Luke and killed the Emperor?" I think they've got their work cut out for them with this. The odds of the son of basically the saviors of the universe turning bad should be astronomically small. Forget that his uncle is also the last Jedi and basically becomes almost a mythological figure in the universe. They're probably going to have to paint two beloved characters as deadbeat parents. Or Luke as a crappy Jedi master. Honestly I wish Kylo Ren would have just been some power hungry kid strong with the force who emerged in his own right. I don't like the family connection, I don't think it was necessary at all. I hope Rey doesn't end up being related to any of them. There should be more than one family in the entire universe strong with the force.

I disagree. The whole pre ANH storylines that have come out point at Vader eliminating all of the Jedi warriors around the galaxy, leaving only Obi-wan and Yoda who were in hiding.

"muscle979 wrote:

Ren's turn is going to have to be explained very well in future movies. It seems illogical to emulate a person who at the end decided that most of his life had been a huge mistake. This is going to need some strong writing to fix. I found myself thinking, "Is Kylo Ren not aware that Darth Vader saved Luke and killed the Emperor?" I think they've got their work cut out for them with this. The odds of the son of basically the saviors of the universe turning bad should be astronomically small. Forget that his uncle is also the last Jedi and basically becomes almost a mythological figure in the universe. They're probably going to have to paint two beloved characters as deadbeat parents. Or Luke as a crappy Jedi master. Honestly I wish Kylo Ren would have just been some power hungry kid strong with the force who emerged in his own right. I don't like the family connection, I don't think it was necessary at all. I hope Rey doesn't end up being related to any of them. There should be more than one family in the entire universe strong with the force.

Ren knows that Vader killed the emperor, it was cut from the movie but it appers in the novelization. Snoke tells him that Vader almost wiped out the Jedi but succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment.

"Fin D wrote:

I was huge fan as a kid, but I lack sentimentality. When nostalgia is removed you find that 4 was boring, 5 is good but only because of the ending, else its just meh, and 6 is silly. This one was just more polished and funny and had the spirit of adventure that movies like the 3 original Indiana Jones had.

It also had a strong feminist message which is lacking in movies, especially in action adventure ones.

What I loved about this is that she was strong from the start. There was no one telling her that she was just a girl. There was no 'I'll show them" moment. I love the character

That moment Kylo Ren when she's being interrogated.. 'You're afraid' .. wow

"Soundwave wrote:

What I loved about this is that she was strong from the start. There was no one telling her that she was just a girl. There was no 'I'll show them" moment. I love the character

That moment Kylo Ren when she's being interrogated.. 'You're afraid' .. wow

I like Rey, but I am concerned about her story going forward. She's pretty much Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Princess Leia combined. She's as overpowered of a character as there has been in all of SW.

Luke: A young, idealistic, dreamer, with hidden force ability.
Han: Street smart, savy, pilot, who knows how to get out of a tight spot.
Leia: The would be Damsel in distress, but it turns out she's much tougher than she looks. *One of the Best lines in the film: "Stop holding my hand!"*

She's surviving in a hostel environment all by herself, flies and fixes the MF like a pro, saves Finn countless times, uses Jedi abilities w/no training or understanding of the force, beats Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, etc... She's pretty overpowered. It does bring the drama down a notch when a character is playing in god-mode. I like Rey, don't misunderstand. But they didn't leave a lot of room for character growth. She's basically ahead of where Luke was at the end of ESB. I'm not sure where she goes from here, exactly.

"Clark Kent wrote:

I like Rey, but I am concerned about her story going forward. She's pretty much Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Princess Leia combined. She's as overpowered of a character as there has been in all of SW.

Luke: A young, idealistic, dreamer, with hidden force ability.
Han: Street smart, savy, pilot, who knows how to get out of a tight spot.
Leia: The would be Damsel in distress, but it turns out she's much tougher than she looks. *One of the Best lines in the film: "Stop holding my hand!"*

She's surviving in a hostel environment all by herself, flies and fixes the MF like a pro, saves Finn countless times, uses Jedi abilities w/no training or understanding of the force, beats Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, etc... She's pretty overpowered. It does bring the drama down a notch when a character is playing in god-mode. I like Rey, don't misunderstand. But they didn't leave a lot of room for character growth. She's basically ahead of where Luke was at the end of ESB. I'm not sure where she goes from here, exactly.

I actually like it. IMO, Rey falls more into line of what a Jedi's abilities should be in the Star Wars universe. As much as I was "meh" about episodes 1-3, the jedi in those episodes were closer to the mark for Jedi's - much more fluid, stronger, acrobatic, stronger uses of the force.

Rey is Luke without the doubt. Just like Yoda said, do or not not, there is no try. She doesn't try, which is why she's ahead of Luke before ESB.

Shes already past novice level with the force despite no training whereas Luke needed to be educated and trained about the force and how to be a Jedi, and he needed two masters to train him properly. When I bring this up to my fellow SW fans, they say "well she's known about the force and the story about Luke and Vader. Luke didn't know about the force at all." Even so, how does she already know how to utilize it like a seasoned Jedi? Because she touched a lightsaber? I don't think the force works like that. You can say that about Finn too but he does wind up getting his ass kicked by Ren. But I agree, Rey's Jedi skills for some reason are already past where Luke's was by the end of ESB. That was my biggest problem with the film, she's already an advanced Jedi with no training whatsoever by the end. Even with training from Obi Wan and Yoda, Luke still couldn't do half the things she did without anyone guiding her. So if Luke winds up training her(you know he will, after being reluctant), by the third movie she should be the most powerful Jedi ever, in the history of all Jedi's.

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"Launchpad McQuack wrote:

Shes already past novice level with the force despite no training whereas Luke needed to be educated and trained about the force and how to be a Jedi, and he needed two masters to train him properly. When I bring this up to my fellow SW fans, they say "well she's known about the force and the story about Luke and Vader. Luke didn't know about the force at all." Even so, how does she already know how to utilize it like a seasoned Jedi? Because she touched a lightsaber? I don't think the force works like that. You can say that about Finn too but he does wind up getting his ass kicked by Ren. But I agree, Rey's Jedi skills for some reason are already past where Luke's was by the end of ESB. That was my biggest problem with the film, she's already an advanced Jedi with no training whatsoever by the end. Even with training from Obi Wan and Yoda, he still couldn't do half the things she did without anyone guiding her. So if Luke winds up training her(you know he will, after being reluctant), by the third movie she should be the most powerful Jedi ever, in the history of all Jedi's.

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I call it selective breeding.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

I call it selective breeding.

Or lazy writing.

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"Launchpad McQuack wrote:

Shes already past novice level with the force despite no training whereas Luke needed to be educated and trained about the force and how to be a Jedi, and he needed two masters to train him properly. When I bring this up to my fellow SW fans, they say "well she's known about the force and the story about Luke and Vader. Luke didn't know about the force at all." Even so, how does she already know how to utilize it like a seasoned Jedi? Because she touched a lightsaber? I don't think the force works like that. You can say that about Finn too but he does wind up getting his ass kicked by Ren. But I agree, Rey's Jedi skills for some reason are already past where Luke's was by the end of ESB. That was my biggest problem with the film, she's already an advanced Jedi with no training whatsoever by the end. Even with training from Obi Wan and Yoda, Luke still couldn't do half the things she did without anyone guiding her. So if Luke winds up training her(you know he will, after being reluctant), by the third movie she should be the most powerful Jedi ever, in the history of all Jedi's.

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I don't think it was so much about her being a badass, I think it was more about Ren being injured and.....

in a crazy headspace since, you know, he just killed his dad and all.

"Fin D wrote:

I don't think it was so much about her being a badass, I think it was more about Ren being injured and.....

in a crazy headspace since, you know, he just killed his dad and all.

plus, the final scene with Lord Snoke hinted that Ren still needed to complete his training. IMO, they portrayed Ren as someone who was strong in the force but more of a novice. I think we'll see him stronger with each movie.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

plus, the final scene with Lord Snoke hinted that Ren still needed to complete his training. IMO, they portrayed Ren as someone who was strong in the force but more of a novice. I think we'll see him stronger with each movie.

I know that the next movie comes out in about a year and a half, but how much time passes in the Star Wars universe between them? About the same? More? Less? That would effect things like everyone's growth and development as well.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I know that the next movie comes out in about a year and a half, but how much time passes in the Star Wars universe between them? About the same? More? Less? That would effect things like everyone's growth and development as well.

well the timelines between episodes 6 and 7 were about same - about 30 years, so maybe it'll be the same. of course Luke spent seemingly a short time with Yoda to carry out his training.