http://www.csnbayarea.com/04/04/11/...ng_maiocco_v3.html?blockID=496960&feedID=5936 Yes, these kinds of things are wildly subjective, but this guy has determined that we are #26 when it comes to successful drafting over the past 5 years. I can't really argue, myself.
We’ve had three, possibly four, different people submitting cards over the last five years. Sort of difficult to establish a consistent grade with that kind of turnover.
Unless that grade is F! Seriously, though, we've been consistently bad on draft day. Saban sucked, Cam/Speilman sucked, and I hate to say it, but the Parcells/Ireland draft of 2008 and 2009 sucked. Merling, Henne, Shawn Murphy, Pat White, Pat Turner. All taken in the first 4 rounds. All busts.
5 busts in 2 years is nothing to be ashamed of. Considering that two of them are QBs, its really not an issue IMO.
Saban and CamMul were disasters. Ireland has been above average on the whole. You see Merling, Henne, Murphy, Turner, and White. I see Langford, Long, Davis, Smith, Carpenter, Hartline, Bess, Misi, and the elite Cameron Wake. Keeping in mind that it’s completely unrealistic to expect 100% success with every single draft pick, Ireland has done a fine job on the whole. That all said, Ireland’s 2011 draft will be defined by what he does with the quarterback position, if anything. Pat White was a Parcells selection, by the way.
How is Henne a bust? He was a first time full time starter last season and was clearly thrown under the bus by that senile old bastard and his cohort the ignorant David Lee. Henne had his growth stunted by these two clowns and then he was blamed for it. Henne is supposed to be developed but apparently you are looking for an instant Marino. Now you want to draft Newton who is not even close to being an NFL QB. This board is so god damn ridiculous sometimes I just can't believe what I read. Who are you to judge Henne a bust actually. Are you an NFL coach or GM. Thought not!
i definitely wouldn't say we suck at the draft. Misi, Clemons, Jake Long, Vontae, Sean Smith, Langford, Hartline, these guys are all solid pieces of our team. Long is a possible HOF'er some day IMO. And as Killerphins said, Henne isn't a bust. John Beck, that was a bust. Henne simply hasnt blown anyone away, but he has shown he can play in the league. Whether or not he turns into what we need at QB is certainly debatable but a bust? No way.
100%? Yeah. 80%? I'm really not sure. I'm running at 90% mocking the Dolphins at a different site for five drafts straight in rounds 1-4. And I don't bring this up to brag - I'm simply genuinely wondering if the draft is that hard of a science as it's made out to be. But maybe that's food for a different thread.
Highly disputable and a rather irrelevant topic if you ask me. Sure some of our players were misses but you also have to consider that we won 1 football game in 2007 and the depth of this team was a mess. Could some of these picks have been better on a deeper team. Possibly or maybe not but that is just one of the many variables left out of this nonsensical study.
Iam only concerned with the last 3 and this one upcoming....2 of the top 5 most important positions Left tackle/outside linebacker are filled with players that I wouldnt trade for nobody..Long and Wake. I think Irish has set himself up in a very enviable position, to be able to go all offense in a draft is pretty damn cool, lets hope hes got the eye for offense..He should tear this draft up...
DJ, I think back to what Tony Sparano said at the owners meetings with regard to last year's draft. I can't remember the exact quote, but to paraphrase he said he thought the 2010 draft was defensive-heavy because they thought the 2009 defense was set personnel wise (I'm assuming he meant based on the progress shown in 2008 and additions of Davis, Smith, and Clemons in the '09 draft). Obviously, they judged wrong and went defense-heavy in 2010. Something tells me that there will be more than just 1 pick spent on the defense in the upcoming draft, even if only because Sparano is dead set on not ignoring that side of the ball and not just doing major reconstruction with the offense. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the 15th overall pick was an OLB (I'm not saying that's what I'd do, but it wouldn't surprise me).
Say if a Robert Quinn happens to be sitting there I'm not sure you could pass on him. A young pass rusher wouldn't be the end of the world for me. The board and the majority of the fanbase would implode though.
Agreed. If Robert Quinn is there, I'd pull the trigger. I'd have to strongly consider Aldon Smith, and if Da'Quan Bowers knee checks out, I'd put him in the mix too.
I think you’re arguing a separate point. Knowing who a GM or team is going to select is different from knowing whether the player is going to pan out in the NFL.
I agree for 3 reasons: 1. The strength of our team is defense, and teams become great by developing their strengths. Basically, we're not making a SB run unless our defense joins the ranks of the elite. 2. Mike Nolan. He trumps all regarding coaches on this team. Give him more tools & talent so he can work even greater magic. 3. Jeff Ireland. His strength when it comes to player assessment seems to fall on the defensive side. IMO if we add a few more pieces defensively, we can become a top 3 defense overall capable of a playoff run. Anyone else here who would like to see our defense become as great and consistent as the Steelers and Ravens in their prime? IMO that should be a major priority since we're so close.
The fan base that loves watching a physical, smack-em-in-the-mouth defense would jump for joy...... myself included. IMO it would be easier to try and shut down Brady rather than go toe to toe with him, so I'm all for the guys Ronin mentioned.
Agreed. I think they have to come away with some depth at OLB, even if it's a mid round pick to help spell Wake and Misi in certain situations. I also think they've got to take a look at the secondary. I know Cortez Allen's name has been mentioned, and though I've not seen his name mentioned, I like Eugene Clifford from Tennessee State (former of Ohio State) so long as his off-field issues (drugs) are done with.
MORE THAN 5 BUSTS IN 2 YEARS...2008/2009 2008 1...Merling...32 nd pick under achiever 2...Henne...fat lady is starting to sing 3...Murphy...gone 4...Thomas...gone 5...Hilliard...0 rushes ...1 reception last season 6...Parmele...gone 7...Dotson...3 years...7 games...5 tackles Coming off a 1-15 season and this is all we have to show for it is amazing in a bad way We should have loaded the roster with players coming off a 1-15 season and having the #1 pick and it just didn't happen. 2009 1...Pat White...enough said 2...Pat Turner...another huge mistake 3...John Nalbone...wtf 4...Gardner...probably working as a gardner 5...Folsum...need an APB to find him As you can see we missed on quite a few players in 2009 and 2008 Hopefully without the Parcells influence things will change
Chris Carter would be great in the 3rd if Houston, NE, or San Fran leave him alone. I'd like to see a DB drafted, too. Along with the 2 guys you mentioned, I'd be smiling if we took CB Buster Scrine whom we have a workout scheduled with. I know Rashad Carmichael has our interest, too. Call me crazy, but I wouldn't mind trading back our 1st and using the 2nd on Kendrick Ellis to give us a back up to Soliai, and who could also play DE. Not to mention Soliai & Langford are FAs next year, and we don't want Starks moving to nose in case Paul is injured. If not Ellis, I'd settle for Chris Neld of WVU or Jerrell Powe, although I prefer Ellis's versatility. Ellis & Soliai side by side would be scary........ and not just at a buffet. lol. 99% of the fans might hate this, but I wouldn't be at all disappointed if our draft went (after trading back twice): 2. Rahim Moore, FS 2. Kendrick Ellis, NT,DE 3. Chris Carter, OLB/pass rush specialist 3. Taiwan Jones, RB (COP) 4. Buster Scrine, CB/KR 5. Julius Thomas, TE 6. David Mims, RT 7. Allen Bradford, RB (power) 7. Graig Cooper, RB 7. Matangi Tonga, FB FA: G- Harvey Dahl (or Davin Joseph), WR- Mike Sims Walker, QB- Marc Bulger. IMO this would leave no glaring needs for 2012 outside of QB if Henne doesn't take the next step. We could either go all in at QB or take one of the elite ILBs (Upshaw, Galippo, Keuchly), SS (Ray Ray/ Barron), or talented big back (Trent Richardson/Knile Davis). 2012 seems potentially loaded, so I'd really like to be in position to take BPA (if not QB).
but it wasn't set after 09, we needed players, those were smokescreens, and imo, had a pretty good def. draft except, he didnt draft Gronkowski, Arenas, and Mccluster like I wanted.lol I think our defense is set, we have to understand that Irish has already picked 2 def players from this draft, Odrick/Edds, must quantify that within this years strategy. Irish has to let Misi play that position to get true value from where he was selected, and go elsewhere imo, I think we've got to pay attention to balance, offensive/returner position is out of whack man, and I just dont see a need on defense thats more important than our needs on offense.. however, I had 1 pick saved out of the first 6 for a young inside backer..I had Mccarthy/Sturdivant in my mock, obviously with Colin gettin hurt Quad is a man I would look hard at...but Thats about it,Balance, team balance.
I realize that. They still count as part of Ireland’s offseason personnel acquisition. They were discovered through Ireland’s scouting process, identified as players of value to the Dolphins, and pursued and signed. They are credits to Ireland.
if you want to be that technical, Bess landed in their lap. Before the draft his agent and Bess made a list of teams they would target. Miami ended up at #1 because they had no WRs and didn't get one in the draft. the agent (maybe tooting his own horn a little) said they immediately called Miami after the draft. if they knew Bess was that good they would have taken him in the draft. Keep that in mind. We shall not praise them for picking: Shawn Murphy, Jalen Parmele, Lionel Dotson, donald thomas, Lex Hilliard over Bess. He got lucky with bess.
Yes but didn't think highly enough of him to draft him ahead of some questionable picks. His agent said they sorted a list, and then if a team picked up a WR they crossed them off. Miami diddn't. As soon as Mr. Irrelevant was picked He called them, not vice versa. It's a little bit of both but the trifecta did not uncover some gem. The gem uncovered in front of them. Give them credit for picking it up.
Thing is, Ireland clearly had foreknowledge of Bess. Otherwise, why even accept the offer? I’m glad that Bess wanted to be here and made that known through his agent, but if there wasn’t interest on Ireland’s part, it doesn’t happen.
Yes like I said, I'll give him props for signing. But the "uncover this gem" stuff is too much. As I said above, it's a bit from both. But the agent clearly said, they targeted Miami as a WR starved team that ... didn't take a WR. He wouldn't have signed Bess unless he knew a bit about him. I just want people to back off the "he overturned a stone and found Bess" talk, which isn't true. They passed him up to take Lionel Dotson. Need I say more?
I have a hard time diminishing the credit due, for signing a player of Bess's ultimately realized pedigree, as an UFA, due to having fallen in his lap, or for having uncovered in front of him. Immediately after the draft, isn't there numerous agents, pushing spurned candidates in front of potentially needy GMs'? If Ireland was convinced no one else had Bess in their crosshairs, but "was" concerned the players picked before him were, regardless of whether Ireland was absolutely sold on those players, should his selection still have taken precedence? I can't recall if Bess was included in the list of players, submitted immediately after the draft, but unless Bess elected to stroll into Davie, uninvited, and as a walk-on, competed to earn an opportunity to be seen, and only then was eventually signed, I can't see discounting the discovery value.
Jake Long as our best pick? Best talent clearly and I'm not saying he wasn't deserving of the #1 spot, but not sure he can be considered a great pick (for Miami of the time) considering we passed on Ryan for him and needed a QB. A great player but a bad pick; if that makes sense. Hindsight is great though isn't it?
At the time of the pick, when we were still at that old site, thought it was a questionable pick, and that you build around a QB not an OLine. Seems we were right after all
I'm being ridiculous? No, my friend you're "god damn ridiculous". Why? 1. You're a Henne apologist extrodianaire. The guy sucks. You think Henning and Lee tell him in the film room, "Hey Chad, lock into one receiver and stare him down. No matter what you do, DO NOT look off the safety!" You sound like a Chris Chambers fan who tells me that if only he had a better QB he'd catch the balls that hit him in the hands. You make me laugh. 2. "Apparently, you're looking for an instant Marino". Nice argument there. I call Henne a bust and now I'm only happy with an instant Marino. Do you understand how debate even works? You lose credibility when you make stuff up. I'd have been happy with Henne if his TD/INT ratio wasn't 12/14 in 2009 and 15/19 in 2010. You see, when you consistently throw more INTs than TDs, you are hurting your team, more than helping it. When you throw an INT, you give the ball to the other team. That is bad. I'm not looking for another Dan Marino, I'm looking for a guy who throws more TDs than INTs. 3. Cam Newton is an unknown quantity at the NFL level. You are confusing matters yet again. No one knows for sure how Cam will play in the NFL. It is a fact that Henne has played poorly in his 2 years as an NFL starter. You're really bad at this whole "arguing" thing.
WTH? Long was a great pick, he's on his way to the HOF. I'll take that with the #1 pick every time. In case you have forgot our OL was abysmal when we took Long. We had Carey playing LT because we had no one else to play there. No point taking a QB with no one to protect him, you end up with a David Carr on your hands then. Even in a redo of that draft I'd still advocate taking Long over Ryan. We had the #1 pick that year and we picked the best player available in the draft.
Vern Carey was doing a good job at LT before we drafted Long. Long's my favorite Dolphin, but we made a mistake not drafting Matt Ryan. You NEVER pass up a franchise QB in the draft when you don't have a franchise QB. I totally understand those who think Long was the right decision. I used to feel that way. But after watching Ryan light up the NFL and Henne sucking up the NFL, I've concluded that we made the wrong pick. And I don't buy the argument that we wouldn't have been able to protect Matt Ryan.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan...my jersey is #77! Nevertheless i still think as a team we'd have been better off picking up Ryan and looking at our OL in the second. A QB is the lynchpin of the team, a LT is, well, a LT. It's nice to have a future HOF player there for sure but I'd rather have a future HOF'er at QB (not saying Ryan will be, just speculating on the comparative value of each position).
