Perception brother... The perception is that JRS is not fan friendly or loud.. Think of it as a social experiment.. If people believe that JRS isn't as good as the OB, then they are walking in to that stadium with a bias.. I've seen JRS get as loud as the OB.. And on TV, I'm not sure if you have noticed, but the networks have progressively drowned out crowd noise... Couple in the bright orange seats and you have a self made "problem" that can be easily remedied.. Say what you will about Ross, but his efforts to bring some life back to the stadium and replacing ZZ Top with Pit Bull during commercial breaks helped increase the enthusiasm in the stadium.. We need to move away from the past and the OB and modernize the stadium experience, even if none of us in the forum agree with how it is being managed.
there is a bottom line in this debate.... A certain level of crowd noise can create confusion, miscommunication, anxiety, and provide adrenaline to the home team throughout a game.... right now, none of those factors apply to the visiting team at sun life..The stadium cannot provide the platform for the level of noise and energy needed to intimidate or initiate any of those variables... Our football team will have to learn to win without a real 12th man...can it be done?, we'll see..but I believe their gonna have to be a special group of guys to get it done.
We have a real 12th man.. It's just that you are unwilling to see it.. Execution trumps everything.. Execution is why the Giants won 3 on the road and the Super Bowl against the Patriots in 2007.. Lack of execution is the reason why favorites like the Chargers and formerly KC could win 13 games a year and still lose at home during the playoffs..Yes the homecrowd can help, but being prepared and executing come gameday are the determining factors.. Now if you included bad weather, I could see how homefield trumps other factors... Playing in Buffalo in January is a difficult task...
The bolded statement just isn't true dj. When there is a big game at the stadium it gets plenty loud. The Jets game last year has been pointed out on multiple ocassions. But I'll go one further. Home against the Patriots in 2008. We were both 7-4. Biggest game at the stadium in years. The place was rocking. the atmosphere was about as electric as I can ever remember. The crowd was into it the entire game. And it didn't make a damn bit of difference when Crowder was trying to cover Wes Welker or helping us get pressure on Matt Cassell who was Brady's clone that day. For as great a story as we were that year, the Pats were simply more talented, even without Brady. And on that day, when the wildcat wasn't fooling anyone and Cassell had some time under his belt, the better team won. It's that simple.
I was at that game.. The stadium was rocking.. People were amped up... The louder we screamed, the easier it seems for Brady and Moss.. Our enthusiasm couldn't make up for the fact that were down to 1 on 1 coverage between Moss and Jason Allen..
As an example, since 2002, the Patriots have the best home record: 59-13. On the road they were 44-24. Sorry but that's more than coincidental. It seems like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing.
LMFAO! Todd, you are MUCH, MUCH smarter than using that as a statistic.. 44-24 on the ROAD over that time period is AMAZING!! Most NFL teams WOULD LOVE to be 44-24 at HOME during that stretch... You have to do better than that.. All that stat proves is that the Patriots have been an incredible team since 2002.
http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=38178&highlight=stadium I think DJ highlights the problem very well in this post, after the Monday night debacle against the Colts.. The trend has been for the Dolphins D to collapse when we smell blood and then blow games.. Thus deflating our crowd and our seasons..... The answer to this debate was already written last year.. DJ, listen to your own words.. They make a lot more sense than blaming a concrete building for our woes..
No one ever said that there isn't a "homefield advantage". In fact, I explained to you exactly what the advantage is in an earlier post. You want to argue that the stadium itself makes a huge difference in wins and losses, which is an assertion you simply have no evidence for. There is simply no evidence, or even logic, dictating that the fins home record over the last 23 years would be any better if we were playing at the OB instead of JRS.
The bottom line is: if you have a chance to turn your home stadium into and advantage, you do so. Did I ONCE say that it has anything to do with making you a SB team? NO! Now you're just adding in extra words etc to support your weak argument. It has to to with giving your home team every extra ounce of advantage it can get. PERIOD. "Emotion?" Are you seriously joking? The game is played on emotion!! This isn't a bowling match. Dude, the field is soooo far away from the stands that the players are more isolated out there from the fans that it doesnt create as much unity. That's a fact. Would you like a tape measure for your evidence? Why don't you prove to me that homefield advantage is a fallacy!! I don't have to prove anything. I've already given you our numbers. Please explain why there's such a difference.
I didn't say makes a "huge" difference, but kudos to you again for adding in words to support your case. I said it makes a difference. In this day and age of competition, a slight difference can mean the difference between making the playoffs or losing in the last 30 seconds.
Have you sat on the field? I've sat about as close to the field as possible, and let me tell you, on a third and long, when an opposing team is on the field, is AS LOUD AS THE OB. Plain and simple.. The broadcasts on TV DOWNPLAY crowd noise in favor of the announcers. I was at the UM - FSU game at JRS a few years ago, and with 65-70% capacity, felt that stadium rock like never before, because the rabid UM base was pumped up.. There is nothing to prove.. Take a measurement device that measures decibels on the field and I'm certain that JRS falls right in the middle when it comes to stadium noise.. Obviously domed stadiums would rate higher.
Nobody said anything about tossing execution out the window, or that we're only allowed to choose 1 or the other to succeed. So you said it yourself, "the crowd can help". Thank you. That's all we needed. LOL. What Deej is saying is that there's no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too. Why cant we be a team that executes AND has a stadium more conducive to keeping the emotion and electricity alive during the ENTIRE season, not just a few games here and there?
Yes, the Pats were more talented. You said it yourself. So you're not allowing for a fair assessment here. Your example is skewed. If you wan't it to be fair, you take 2 equal teams and see how many times the home team wins. By this standard, the home team will win out more than the visitor. If you look up EVERY NFL game played and see the win-loss of home and away teams, I'd be willing to bet $1000 right now that the home team has the better record.
Because our fanbase is fickle.. The same fanbase that shows up 20 minutes late when we had Shaq and Wade on the court winning games.. The same fanbase that had difficulty selling out Dolphin playoff games.. Let's get down to the nitty gritty of this debate.. It has more to do with our fanbase than the stadium.. I challenge you to look at a picture of Investco Field where the Broncos are KNOWN to have a rabid, loud stadium, and compare the layout of the seats to JRS.. In fact a lot of NFL stadiums look as distant from the field as JRS, yet have the perception of being louder and having better fans... This team has not fielded a Super Bowl caliber team since the early 90's....
Sure 44-24 is a great road record and it WOULD nullify my argument.... if we weren't talking about the Patriots who were 59-13 at home. In this sense, that totals 15 more wins with 11 less losses at home over 8 seasons. That's a big difference. A 44-24 team is not as dominant as a 59-13 team. You tell me it's not a big difference and I'll show you a few SB rings that disagree.
Gilette Stadium is a graveyard. Totally silent. Citing the Patriots' home record is detrimental to the argument that a team is best served with a loud home crowd rather than a more talented roster.
NOBODY in here is making the case that homefield advantage means nothing. Of course playing on your homefield is a huge advantage. You however, are arguing that homefield advantage is a DISADVANTAGE in Miami.. Here is a stat, since you used 2002 as an example.. Miami Dolphins, 2002 Season 2-6 on the road 7-1 at home Does that mean that our homefield in 2002 was as good as any in the NFL? Didn't we play at JRS in 2002? What can you deduce from the 2002 season?
Of course, and we have a better home than away record too. You are arguing that our home record would be better if we were playing in the OB rather than JRS. And on that point, you have no evidence or logic. Just your gut that the OB was a louder stadium and thus we were a better team.
All you're giving is a few random examples. Go watch a Clemson Tiger football game (heck, you can even watch them play South Carolina State) and then come back and tell me about your random 3rd and longs. Fans (and players) get more pumped when they're right on top of the action..... and players seeing fans wearing their jerseys up close to the point where they can hi-5 them etc. Here a player needs an oxygen mask if he wants to do that.
Then a weak fan base is all the more reason to pull them in closer to the action and make them seem "larger to life" then they really are. Now you're just proving Deej's point for him. If the fans are as bad as you say, then the last thing you want to do is further isolate them from the players and field.
We aren't Clemson and the stadium isn't going anywhere.. How many Championships has Clemson won with that homefield?
BTW, from 1968 until the arrival of Favre, the Packers had a total of 5 winning season, playing in a stadium where players could jump on the fans...
It's not detrimental to this argument. The fact remains that teams play better at home. I don't care what Gilette sounds like; the Pats STILL play better AT HOME.... by far. That's what matters. My argument is that the home team has a site advantage, and we are not fully maximizing on ours. It's one of the reason's the SB is played on neutral turf: to keep all things as equal as possible.
What can I deduce? I can deduce that you isolated 1 season to only serve your argument where as I used our ENTIRE Phins history of home and away games.
And we all know what a monster homefield advantage Clemson has... yet, their home record is not that great since 2006. considering that it is College and you get more cup cakes at home.
And the debate about playing the Super Bowl in NY made it apparent that weather plays a huge role in determining how teams adjust, come gametime.. Let me ask you this - Let's assume the Dolphins make it to the Super Bowl.. They have the choice to either play New Orleans in the Dome (assuming NO has the Super Bowl that year) or in the Meadowlands against the Packers with a snowstorm on the way and a temperature of 5 degrees.. What do you think would be more favorable to the Phins?
Yup.. Csonka, Shula, Marino, Griese, the no name D and our storied history has nothing to do with our record post the OB.. I mean Fiedler, Cameron and Ginn are on par with our great Dolphin teams from the past.
I tell you what..... I already know the answer to this so I'll let you do the leg work on it. Why don't you poll the long time season ticket holders who saw years of games at the OB..... and ask them if the OB was a louder and more electric stadium. And stop adding in your extra stupid little jabs like "thus we were the better team" as if I'm saying that the reason we were good was b/c of the OB. How infantile are you? Can't you argue on your own merit? If you want to have a debate, don't cheapen it by continuing to add in extra crap to support your side.
I've been to Dolphins and Canes games at the old OB.. Back when the Canes were winning Championships and the Dolphins had the greatest QB IN NFL HISTORY. I was at several games last year where the energy and crowd noise was JUST AS LOUD as the OB.. Now JRS doesn't shake like the OB did, but the again I'm not sure how safe it is to feel an entire, outdated stadium shake.
And lest we forget that during this time of public welfare, Joe Robbie took his own cash and built that stadium.. People also forget how nasty the OB was when it came to concessions and using the bathroom.. Or good luck finding parking... We are romanticizing the past.. The OB was a great stadium and was loud, but JRS offers other benefits and has had to deal with a perception problem the second it was built.
The OB was an old outdated steel skeleton stadium. So it shook and when you stomped your feet, it made noise. We use concrete now. So any "comparison" is BS. Compare it to other concrete stadiums. it is just as loud. You need a good team to make it loud.
Actually...Ole' Joe screwed ALOT of people in the construction industry. There are still people that have not gotten paid from that fiasco. he basically gave out a ton of IOU's that never got paid.
Again: you can't try to claim the existence of fan loudness as a home field advantage by citing the record of a team that plays in a mausoleum. It simply doesn't work. It's like arguing that the sky is green, then looking up and ignoring the fact that it's actually blue. The ultimate home field advantage is talent, not decibel level.
We've actually won a Championship thank you. And I can tell you for a fact that playing FSU and South Carolina at home is a big difference compared to playing them on the road. On road games you don't see "your" players raising their hands trying to pump up the rival crowd. Clemson is one of the most "involved" stadiums in the country and I can tell you first hand that the players feed off it. When I say first hand, I mean first hand. We don't have to be Clemson, and I know the stadium isn't going anywhere, but it can still be modified to make it more energetic on a regular basis, more fan friendly, and more fan-player interactive.
neither would be favorable. They would both be "unfavorable"..... only NO would be less of the unfavorable, but unfavorable none the less. Let me ask you this: Would you rather play the Saints in the SB in NO..... or play them in Indy?
It absolutely was....... even during times when the team was mediocre. And anyone who's not close to 40 years old...... sorry but you should be asking someone older what it was like.
