Sun Life Stadium..My buzz kill.

"Desides wrote:

It was also a dump. The Orange Bowl was once a great venue because of the teams that played there, not because the stadium somehow made the home team better. Those teams, whether the Dolphins or the Canes, didn't need any help.

I'm not arguing whether or not the OB was getting old and needed to be replaced...... the point is that yes, some stadiums by design are louder than others.

The Orange Bowl was a LOUDER stadium.......PERIOD

You could take the same crowd, same enthusiasm and it was still louder....still more of a problem for opposing teams.

I went to the very first game when JRS opened and it was obvious from the very beginning....

"djphinfan wrote:

Desides...I respect your opinion..

The game is played by human being's who have emotions...you or others may think that it was time to move on from the orange bowl, but I know for a fact that the players themselves were and our, miserable about it. what kind of residual affect that can have is what Iam trying to quantify.

You use examples of a monday nite game and a playoff game, which are fine, I was at both, and relative to the rest of our games it was better, but our standards are at the bottom when it comes to this subject.

My point is that because of the construction of this stadium, it does not allow the fans to feel like they can make a difference, or effect their players emotions...the stadium itself over the years has completely changed the perception that our once proud fanbase had...how did that happen? well imo, when you dont feel like your making a difference you become a passive fan..It wasnt the team's that made us get a rep, it was the fact that the stadium allowed us to feel like we had some power, and once we felt that, we wanted more, and once we felt like we could actually give our players energy on the field, we wanted more, and once we felt like we could literally affect the game, we wanted more, so we stood, and screamed, and stood some more, and we walked around proud.

Last year monday nite was the best that stadium had to offer....

Our stadium is a wonderful place for a visiting team to play football, they love it, ive heard it many times....disadvantage Miami dolphins.

You talk about the new cowboy stadium being a morgue, and you know, ive said several times that same exact thing since the first game i watched play there..The old dallas stadium from a players perspective was such an advantage, they loved it because they played under the close eye of their fan's {pun intended}.. The new one has no connection now from the fans to its players, none, huge disconnect that mr. smarty pants Jerry jones failed to include in his blueprints {biiiig mistake}.. we are in the same boat...

No connection, that's what iam talking about.. and when you dont have your fans and players connected in this gladiator type game, your negatively affecting your team and the franchise on many levels, and Iam not just talking about surfacely, but financially.

What's scary to me is the residual affect this has on our player's conscious...

Mike Dee... if you or your researchers are reading this, its real, were a miserable fanbase that wants to be a part of our team again.....

I may sound crazy to some, and that this is quite irrelevant to results on the field, but with every bone in my body, the close details I pay to my teams emotional state of mind, the years of data proving to me, have helped me formulate this opinion...along with having been sitting in both stadiums and comparing the astronomical diiference's in energy..

But dj, you continue to assume that the crowd noise makes a tangible difference in winning or losing. I don't believe there is any evidence of that.

I bring up Lucas Oil Stadium again. The place is unquestionably quieter than the RCA Dome, to the point they tried pumping in crowd noise, yet the Colts continue to win at an astonishing pace and have been to two Super Bowls since they've been there.

When you have a good team, you play good at home and you play good on the road. A good team should beat inferior teams in the loudest stadium ever or the quietest.

"schmolioot wrote:

But dj, you continue to assume that the crowd noise makes a tangible difference in winning or losing. I don't believe there is any evidence of that.

I bring up Lucas Oil Stadium again. The place is unquestionably quieter than the RCA Dome, to the point they tried pumping in crowd noise, yet the Colts continue to win at an astonishing pace and have been to two Super Bowls since they've been there.

When you have a good team, you play good at home and you play good on the road. A good team should beat inferior teams in the loudest stadium ever or the quietest.

Shmoot, so you don't think energy in a stadium can affect a players performance?, cause if you don't, than we will never disagree on this.

Energy from fans and atmosphere can most definitly imo lift a players energy.

"djphinfan wrote:

Shmoot, so you don't think energy in a stadium can affect a players performance?, cause if you don't, than we will never disagree on this.

Energy from fans and atmosphere can most definitly imo lift a players energy.

Sure it can, for a play or two. It wouldn't sustain for a whole game or season.

The teams that win consistently are just better teams, period. Teams with great homefields have had horrible years where no amount of crowd energy would make any difference. Even Green Bay was in the wilderness for 20 years to the point they played half the games in Milwaukee to drum up interest.

"djphinfan wrote:

Shmoot, so you don't think energy in a stadium can affect a players performance?, cause if you don't, than we will never disagree on this.

Energy from fans and atmosphere can most definitly imo lift a players energy.

Jet fans have been some of the loudest and most energy filled stadiums (old meadowlands) for years. What have they won?

You need a good team to go along with the noise.

Iam not gonna keep harpin on the topic, I don't want people to get annoyed at me, so I will say that iam on the record, and hopefully the signs that we have been seeing by the Suit's is that they understand the P.O.V, and finally are willing to take some action.

Shmoot, see ya on the other side buddy, lol.

"NJFINSFAN1 wrote:

Jet fans have been some of the loudest and most energy filled stadiums (old meadowlands) for years. What have they won?

You need a good team to go along with the noise.

Yes mam..I agree with you...some of the takes I hear on this subject make me feel that some folks think these are robots out there, and not human being's...

"djphinfan wrote:

Iam not gonna keep harpin on the topic, I don't want people to get annoyed at me, so I will say that iam on the record, and hopefully the signs that we have been seeing by the Suit's is that they understand my P.O.V and finally are willing to take some action.

Shmoot, see ya on the other side buddy, lol.

:lol:

Hey, I love the passion dj. And don't get me wrong, if moving the seats closer or doing something else will increase the value of my experience at the stadium I'm all for it, considering I plan to continue getting tickets for as long as I can afford them.

"Desides wrote:

Sorry, but I just can't get behind the notion that the stadium sucks. Are there better stadiums in the NFL? Yes, but they're all newer. And even many of the new ones aren't as good as Sun Life Stadium. Jerry Jones' North Texas Football Cathedral and Mausoleum doesn't impress me, but the Cardinals' new place is pretty good.

I really think you're off base every time you bring this stadium topic up. Go and watch the 2008 playoff game against the Ravens, or the 2009 MNF game against the Jets. The stadium is fine. The missing element is an elite on-field product.

Well said....

"jetssuck wrote:

It might be getting a little exaggerated..... but our current stadium is a library compared to the electricity of the Orange Bowl. It was insane...... it was one of the last places you wanted to play on the road for opposing teams. And it was like that even when this team was mediocre..... the Orange had always been famous for being a hostile environment to play in. No matter our record...

I'm less concerned about a roof than I am making the seats closer to the field......

And if given the choice between dumping millions more into that stadium or just building a new one...... I'd rather see them build the Orange Bowl2

Yeah, there has never been a louder stadium, thats for sure. But Joe Robbie can get very very loud with the right atmosphere. Being at the Colts playoff game where Lamar Smith put on a show, that was one hellava loud game.

With a top product it would be considerably louder thats for sure.

Would I like a new stadium? I would love one with the seats a lot closer and more of an incline to them as well but ONLY if it's an open venue with no stupid (_)_) roof...

"djphinfan wrote:

Desides...I respect your opinion..

The game is played by human being's who have emotions...you or others may think that it was time to move on from the orange bowl, but I know for a fact that the players themselves were and our, miserable about it. what kind of residual affect that can have is what Iam trying to quantify.

You use examples of a monday nite game and a playoff game, which are fine, I was at both, and relative to the rest of our games it was better, but our standards are at the bottom when it comes to this subject.

My point is that because of the construction of this stadium, it does not allow the fans to feel like they can make a difference, or effect their players emotions...the stadium itself over the years has completely changed the perception that our once proud fanbase had...how did that happen? well imo, when you dont feel like your making a difference you become a passive fan..It wasnt the team's that made us get a rep, it was the fact that the stadium allowed us to feel like we had some power, and once we felt that, we wanted more, and once we felt like we could actually give our players energy on the field, we wanted more, and once we felt like we could literally affect the game, we wanted more, so we stood, and screamed, and stood some more, and we walked around proud.

Last year monday nite was the best that stadium had to offer....

Our stadium is a wonderful place for a visiting team to play football, they love it, ive heard it many times....disadvantage Miami dolphins.

You talk about the new cowboy stadium being a morgue, and you know, ive said several times that same exact thing since the first game i watched play there..The old dallas stadium from a players perspective was such an advantage, they loved it because they played under the close eye of their fan's {pun intended}.. The new one has no connection now from the fans to its players, none, huge disconnect that mr. smarty pants Jerry jones failed to include in his blueprints {biiiig mistake}.. we are in the same boat...

No connection, that's what iam talking about.. and when you dont have your fans and players connected in this gladiator type game, your negatively affecting your team and the franchise on many levels, and Iam not just talking about surfacely, but financially.

What's scary to me is the residual affect this has on our player's conscious...

Mike Dee... if you or your researchers are reading this, its real, were a miserable fanbase that wants to be a part of our team again.....

I may sound crazy to some, and that this is quite irrelevant to results on the field, but with every bone in my body, the close details I pay to my teams emotional state of mind, the years of data proving to me, have helped me formulate this opinion...along with having been sitting in both stadiums and comparing the astronomical diiference's in energy..

I've been to both stadiums as a season ticket holder for over 30 yrs and as much as I totally loved the atmosphere of the Orange Bowl, I liked the idea of a more comfortable stadium to attend games. The seats at the Orange Bowl were soooooo uncomfortable it was not even funny, and god forbid if you got stuck behind one of the many columns that obstructed your view of the game. I just thought they moved out too soon.

The only total disadvantages are that the Dolphins fans dont sell it out and show up consistantly. The stadium was built with too many seats imo and should hold only 68,000, at most 70,000 people. We Dolphins fans are at fault for letting any team other than the Dolphins feel at home. BUT when it's full of Dolphins fans it can be very loud and annoying for the opponent. Payton Manning once said that he was really effected by the crowd noise there so it's definitely not a disadvantge to the Dolphins when WE FINS FANS fill it up...

"Ozzy wrote:

I've been to both stadiums as a season ticket holder for over 30 yrs and as much as I totally loved the atmosphere of the Orange Bowl, I liked the idea of a more comfortable stadium to attend games. The seats at the Orange Bowl were soooooo uncomfortable it was not even funny, and god forbid if you got stuck behind one of the many columns that obstructed your view of the game. I just thought they moved out too soon.

The only total disadvantages are that the Dolphins fans dont sell it out and show up consistantly. The stadium was built with too many seats imo and should hold only 68,000, at most 70,000 people. We Dolphins fans are at fault for letting any team other than the Dolphins feel at home. BUT when it's full of Dolphins fans it can be very loud and annoying for the opponent. Payton Manning once said that he was really effected by the crowd noise there so it's definitely not a disadvantge to the Dolphins when WE FINS FANS fill it up...

maybe iam in the minority OZ, but I woukld sacrifice my own comfortability in a second to have our team play in a stadium like the OB, in a second...

Look at a stadium like Lambeau Field... does sitting on a hard metal bench (not seat, I said bench) in below freezing temperatures, gusting winds and snowfall... does that sound like a fun way to spend a Sunday afternoon?

But yet there is a 30 year waiting list to get Packer season tickets, plus Green Bay is by far the smallest market in the NFL.

I recently saw on YouTube a clip of the 85 Bears/Fins game at the Orange Bowl, the game literally came to a stop because of the frenzied crowd noise. If anyone was there I'd love to read about your memories. They had to basically stop the game because the fans were so loud and the Bears couldn't hear anything. You would have never convinced me that happened at a Dolphins game, no way.

"frozenfin wrote:

Look at a stadium like Lambeau Field... does sitting on a hard metal bench (not seat, I said bench) in below freezing temperatures, gusting winds and snowfall... does that sound like a fun way to spend a Sunday afternoon?

But yet there is a 30 year waiting list to get Packer season tickets, plus Green Bay is by far the smallest market in the NFL.

I recently saw on YouTube a clip of the 85 Bears/Fins game at the Orange Bowl, the game literally came to a stop because of the frenzied crowd noise. If anyone was there I'd love to read about your memories. They had to basically stop the game because the fans were so loud and the Bears couldn't hear anything. You would have never convinced me that happened at a Dolphins game, no way.

yes sir, I was there, and let me tell you, that wasn't the only game that happened at..at that game it happened 3 times in a row, than they said we were gonna get penalized if we continued...freakin brilliant man.....I think that was a first then, and still stands to this day...Ive watched teams fold under the pressure, and ive watched our team raise their level of play with a heightened sense of awareness that only a specific type crowd can create.

You wanna talk about being a proud fan, when your team respects you as a fan base its the ultimate praise....

"djphinfan wrote:

The game is played by human being's who have emotions...you or others may think that it was time to move on from the orange bowl, but I know for a fact that the players themselves were and our, miserable about it. what kind of residual affect that can have is what Iam trying to quantify.

Not arguing that. What I'm arguing is that you're aiming at the wrong target. The stadium isn't the problem, the lack of compelling on-field product to cheer for is. You can go back and watch games from 2007 and then compare with games from 2009 to see what I mean.

You use examples of a monday nite game and a playoff game, which are fine, I was at both, and relative to the rest of our games it was better, but our standards are at the bottom when it comes to this subject.

Only "better"? I think you might have an overinflated opinion of other teams' stadiums and crowds...

"djphinfan wrote:

maybe iam in the minority OZ, but I woukld sacrifice my own comfortability in a second to have our team play in a stadium like the OB, in a second...

But see I said I looked forward to a new stadium. Not that I wanted it. I loved the Orange Bowl but the seats at Joe Robbie are much more comfortable and the biggest thing is there are no columns and not one bad seat in the house as far as the view.

I've always said the seats should be moved closer on the sidelines and more than anything, the incline needs to be steeper. The place was originally designed sort of like a soccer stadium and if you listen to a big time soccer game they can be loud as hell.

But the one thing I totally disagree with you on, is that it is not a disgrace of a stadium. It was state of the art in it's time.

Should they upgrade or build anew? YES! I've been saying it for a while but the one thing I am so against is a freaking roof.

"frozenfin wrote:

Look at a stadium like Lambeau Field... does sitting on a hard metal bench (not seat, I said bench) in below freezing temperatures, gusting winds and snowfall... does that sound like a fun way to spend a Sunday afternoon?

But yet there is a 30 year waiting list to get Packer season tickets, plus Green Bay is by far the smallest market in the NFL.

I recently saw on YouTube a clip of the 85 Bears/Fins game at the Orange Bowl, the game literally came to a stop because of the frenzied crowd noise. If anyone was there I'd love to read about your memories. They had to basically stop the game because the fans were so loud and the Bears couldn't hear anything. You would have never convinced me that happened at a Dolphins game, no way.

I was at the game and the game was stopped like 5-6 times or more. The refs kept going over to Shula threatening to penalize the team, and Shoes was waving his arms at them like wtf do you want me to do.

Green Bay is not comparible to South Florida. They've had a tradition there that was/is second to none. Winning championship after championship before the NFL was even formed but the one thing they have that makes it impossible to compare is NOTHING, and by that I mean they have absolutely NOTHING but Packers Football in Green Bay.

You show me a Dolphins team that is a legit SB contender year in and year out and I'll show you sell out after sell out and waiting lines for tickets but the second they suck I'll count the cricketts for you. AND it's like that in 90-95 percent of all NFL venues.....

"schmolioot wrote:

Sure it can, for a play or two. It wouldn't sustain for a whole game or season.

The teams that win consistently are just better teams, period. Teams with great homefields have had horrible years where no amount of crowd energy would make any difference. Even Green Bay was in the wilderness for 20 years to the point they played half the games in Milwaukee to drum up interest.

See the this kinda goes with the point it is important. Close games and momentum change on a play or two IMO.

Sure if ya have a bad product on the field it will not make ya a winner but the advantage is real and tangible.

there is something called adrenaline in the game of football...adrenaline can lift your game...adrenaline can be enhanced from energy that does not come from your own body.

nobody has given me a reason why some players called out their own team for being unemotional and flat to start games".. does that sound right coming from this sparano/parcells team?...Are we blaming that on JT and Porter?

I agree with you, Deej. Home field advantage is not a myth. It's called this for a reason, and right now our stadium doesn't allow us to consistently have it..... plain and simple. A home field should NOT allow for even play; it should be acting as a 12th man.

Case in point- Our home record:
Sun Life: 117-73 (.616)
Orange Bowl: 120-43-3 (.737)

Now I'm no mathlete but I think the numbers display a clear variance between the 2.

It's ironic how in 82' we went to the SB.
In 83' we're 12-4
In 84' we're 14-2
In 85' we're 12-4

Say hello to Joe Robbie Stadium:
In 86' we're 8-8
In 87' we're 8-7
In 88' we're 6-10
In 89' we're 8-8

I know there are other factors involced, but just sayin.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I agree with you, Deej. Home field advantage is not a myth. It's called this for a reason, and right now our stadium doesn't allow us to consistently have it..... plain and simple. A home field should NOT allow for even play; it should be acting as a 12th man.

Case in point- Our home record:
Sun Life: 117-73 (.616)
Orange Bowl: 120-43-3 (.737)

Now I'm no mathlete but I think the numbers display a clear variance between the 2.

It's ironic how in 82' we went to the SB.
In 83' we're 12-4
In 84' we're 14-2
In 85' we're 12-4

Say hello to Joe Robbie Stadium:
In 86' we're 8-8
In 87' we're 8-7
In 88' we're 6-10
In 89' we're 8-8

I know there are other factors involced, but just sayin.

Yeah, the other factors were the talent level of the team. We went to the AFC Championship in '92 at JRS. And you're complaining about a .616 home mark?

Come on guys. When we were 11-5 2 years ago was our homefield that bad? I know we lost a few games but to better teams (except thwe Jets, but we sucked the first 2 weeks)

"jetssuck wrote:

I'm not arguing whether or not the OB was getting old and needed to be replaced...... the point is that yes, some stadiums by design are louder than others.

The Orange Bowl was a LOUDER stadium.......PERIOD

You could take the same crowd, same enthusiasm and it was still louder....still more of a problem for opposing teams.

I went to the very first game when JRS opened and it was obvious from the very beginning....

I watched the 85 bears Dolphins game this last weekend.. the OB crowd was SO loud they stopped play for more than five minutes... I remember it being so loud in the closed end my eyes blurred... you might argue that crowd noise has no effect, but we owned the nfl for homefield advantage for years and years at the OB.. even in our bad years.

"schmolioot wrote:

Yeah, the other factors were the talent level of the team. We went to the AFC Championship in '92 at JRS. And you're complaining about a .616 home mark?

Come on guys. When we were 11-5 2 years ago was our homefield that bad? I know we lost a few games but to better teams (except thwe Jets, but we sucked the first 2 weeks)

Yeah I am complaining about it. What part of 30 more losses with 3 fewer victories (compared to the Orange Bowl) do you not comprehend?

Big deal- 1 AFC Championship appearance over 24 years. True mark of a quality.:shifty:

1992- you mean the year we lost to the Bills twice at home including the Championship game? Sure, great home field advantage there!!!

"cnc66 wrote:

I watched the 95 bears Dolphins game this last weekend.. the OB crowd was SO loud they stopped play for more than five minutes... I remember it being so loud in the closed end my eyes blurred... you might argue that crowd noise has no effect, but we owned the nfl for homefield advantage for years and years at the OB.. even in our bad years.

I completely remember that. The Orange Bowl was revered in its day! It had a mystique about it.

"Joe Robbie Stadium" became something nonchalant and "matter of factly" like: I can picture Bob Eucker saying "It's 90 degrees and humid as balls today.... and oh yeah, the game's being played at <psssst, what's this place called again?> (whisper from the side- Joe Robbie Stadium) yeah, that place."

"cnc66 wrote:

I watched the 95 bears Dolphins game this last weekend.. the OB crowd was SO loud they stopped play for more than five minutes... I remember it being so loud in the closed end my eyes blurred... you might argue that crowd noise has no effect, but we owned the nfl for homefield advantage for years and years at the OB.. even in our bad years.

I watched the 85 Bears game...... eerily similar to the one you're referring to.... eerily.