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Sunday was the Players' Message to Stephen Ross

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Tannephins, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    which is why you personally should shoot Philbin in the forhead. Clay should still be a dolphin:pity:
     
  2. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a tough one. It seems like they wanted Clay but didn't trust him to stay healthy sonics gonna take a little longer to see whether they were right or not.

    What we do know is that they've gambled on several injury prone players and those guys have for the most part gotten hurt. Albert. Moreno, Delmas, Fox, for example. Ajayi and Parker came in with injury histories too. Both have been limited. Maybe it's bad luck.
     
  3. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I did not read the responses, but I say horse ****.
     
  4. bigpicture

    bigpicture New Member

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    There are so many threads filled with mobs trying to suggest which scapegoat to pitchfork first it's hard to tell who's trolling but this one is so silly I'll bite...

    So your premise is an entire team of players , most of whom have spoken to and have access to Ross, don't directly tell ownership of mutiny over two losses but instead passive aggressively send subliminal signals and profound monotonous mental letters? Have they not thought of wasting their money on a bill board or flying a banner behind a plane?

    Why risk putting out bad tape of yourself? If any one is fired the new staff will want guys that fit their scheme and persona not an entire team that would stop competing.

    The hot seat means everyone's job is on the line. Tannehill. Suh. Everyone. Hickey probably gets a chance to pick out a coach but any top tier candidate wouldn't want to be limited by someone else buying the groceries. So all you rabble rousers be careful what you wish for.
     
  5. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    Who calls the plays? Who sets formations? Whose brilliant flippin idea is it to never line up in a pro set, always in shotgun. Who called the pitch out reverse to Landry on 3rd and 3? Who called the pitch out of the shotgun to Miller on 2nd and 15 vs the Jags? Who can't figure out how to use an all pro D line or teach a LB to shoot a gap? All dem farkers gotta go and now would be better than later.
     
  6. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I gotta tell you I was done w/ Philbin after watching hard knocks. The players put together a leadership council to communicate with the coaching staff and the next yr all of them were off the team. That is some serious insecurity problems and alpha dog NFL players will with that ish off their cleats on your face.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ok, so it wasn't the coaching, and the team played hard? so i guess your saying that the bills are way more talented than us in a rout?
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    why cant you just say that you think the teams we lost to are more talented than us as a whole? why carry on so?
     
  9. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Entirely possible. We're a forum full of fans, of whom I am but one. It's entirely possible that 99.9% of what we say here is horse****.
     
  10. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Bills are the most talented team in the AFC outside of QB imo. I wouldn't say they are way more talented but it only takes a couple bad matchups to turn a game on its head.
     
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  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps they played hard, but were not focused, which leads to bad playing.
     
  12. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    You're neglecting to consider that the team serves to harm itself more by parting with such players than by tolerating less than what's expected from their play. Such is the nature of some players' contracts.
     
  13. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Suh is the only guy who's job is guaranteed, the 64 mil in guarantees, guarantees that.
     
  14. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    My sense of what's going on here at this point is that Suh is dissatisfied with the coaching staff, and the "power" he has from having his job guaranteed is setting the tone in the locker room and essentially determining the team culture at this point.

    The opposite process happens in New England, where Tom Brady has all the power, and his stamp of approval of Bill Belichick creates the (winning) culture.
     
  15. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Eh, whatever. I don’t think it comes down to a lack of effort or mere complacency. This is ineptitude and incompetency which is much worse. This is a bad organization from top to bottom. The owner is clueless. The guy charged with making it happen, Tannenbaum, has proven to be more of an empowered fan than a professional team builder. The coaching staff is horrible. The bad players are all over this roster. Even the good players are unresponsive and mentally checked-out. The fans are by the day becoming less and less interested. This organization is about as lost as it could be. It may just need to volunteer to move to LA to get some sort of a fresh start or something.

    If players want to mail it in, that’s fine, but they’re shooting themselves in the foot. While a few highly paid players do have sufficient leverage to send a message through that sort of action and still be retained, the vast majority will just wind up getting replaced because of a lack of production. It’s not like the next HC is going to be sympathetic to all the players who are performing badly. They’ll likely all be released and most will have nothing to show on tape but lackadaisical effort which no team will want.

    I’ll say right now that inevitable turnover is something we all need to keep in mind because it’s coming. This roster stinks to high heaven outside QB, WR, and DT. Whether Tannenbaum has the guts to do it is debatable. This team may not properly rebuild for another 10 years, idk, but at some point they will have to.

    I’ve heard people say that this defense has the talent to be great and that it’s just Coyle holding them back. While they’re right about Coyle, those people are still delusional about the roster. It’s simply not good. Half of the secondary is comprised of Walt Aikens, Brice McCain and Jamar Taylor. They are all very bad players. All three need replacing. There’s not a defensive secondary in the NFL that wouldn’t be limited if half its players were that bad. Those guys aren’t even back-up material for the NFL’s better secondaries. Aikens doesn’t even look worthy of being in the NFL, let alone being a starter. He’s entirely unprepared and incompetent. McCain and Taylor are just flat out lousy. Motivated or not, those aren’t players with which you can win.

    Look at the LBs and you’ll see the same thing--1 guy who might be a long term answer, OLB Jelani Jenkins. Meanwhile, both Misi and Sheppard are bad and McCain seems to have no real consistency. After them are a bunch of inexperienced no-names. Again, what top defense can be named that features a LB-corp with only 1 young OLB to its credit?

    Even the defensive line isn’t that good because both DEs are highly over-rated. I won’t say anything other than I hope I’m not watching either Wake or Vernon next year. Vernon isn’t worthy of a big new contract and Wake is simply over-the-hill and unproductive for what he’s paid. He should’ve been traded a season or two ago so the team could rebuild with a developmental player.

    Thankfully, the offensive issues are almost entirely involved with guys who block. The team will need a RB as Miller hits FA but they can ride Williams, Ajayi and Gray while they build the O-line.


    As I said, this franchise is in the toilet because it doesn’t work at any level—from Ross to Tannenbaum to Philbin to Lazor and Coyle to the roster itself. This team is a tragedy that really does need to rebuild from the ground up. Sadly, that probably won’t happen because Ross can’t be run out of town and Tannenbaum will probably sell Ross on the idea that the team really is 1 offseason away from grand success.
     
  16. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    Can't fault anyone for not endorsing philbin.
     
  17. bigpicture

    bigpicture New Member

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    So a 3-4 coach would tear up his playbook to feature Suh? or move him to nose tackle? His contract is prohibitive but as long as multiple other teams are interested he could be traded
     
  18. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    If that were the case, I doubt it would deter Suh from giving less than 100% here. If he's in demand elsewhere, he'll make his money either way, and if he lands elsewhere, he might have a better chance of showing off his skills.

    In other words, Suh stands nothing to lose from giving less than his full effort here.
     
  19. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think most of us would trade him in a heartbeat because he's not a good guy and more importantly, he's not the answer, but I doubt it's going to happen. There's way too much guaranteed money and I doubt there are teams lining up to take over his contract.
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think it's WAY too early to give up on Suh. It's 3 games into a long-term contract. Personally, I think the coaches are more to blame because I don't think Suh suddenly lost his ability. Let's revisit this after at least a bunch more games are played (I'll admit he hasn't shown what we paid him for so far, but really.. it's WAY too early to say this was a bad deal).
     
  21. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No matter how well he plays Suh will never live up to that contract.
     
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  22. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    They WERE flat and NOT ready to play. Lets just stop the nonsense about it being the players ineptitude more than the coaches inability to do a sufficient job motivating and preparing these guys. Philbin is not head coaching material , it`ll sink in eventually.

    How about last year ? By your reasoning the players were good enough to go 7-5 , but not good enough to finish better than 8-8? Strictly on them , not philbin? Please.

    You`re quick to say you`re not a Philbin fan but clearly you are. Hey, hows that working out for you?
     
  23. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    He wont because the expectation when you sign a DT to that price tag is JJ Watt. Dareus looks better than Suh this year and he got a sack against us fighting off a double team..
     
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  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I'll say he lived up to his contract only if we end up having a top 5 run defense and a top 5 defense measured by what matters most: points allowed. Even if we don't know precisely what the cause for the effect was, if that's the effect after signing Suh, then he was worth it.

    Of course, it's not looking at all like that yet.
     
  25. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think I've been pretty clear that it's not strictly on anyone. Players, coaches, personell guys, everyone. The difference is we can all see the players screwing up on gameday, this stuff about the coaches is mostly conjecture and playing the result.

    If you'd like to point out all the players who were flat on Sunday, please do. Otherwise you're blowing hot air. Imho.
     
  26. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol yeah it's liking nothing like that at all. I went into the season assuming that the DL would mask the back sevens deficiencies for the most part. Hasn't happened. The DL has actually been a part of the problem. Wake and Vernon have been invisible. Suh is stuck playing NT bc there's no viable alternative. If this defense isn't stuffing the run, creating a bunch if obvious pass situations and terrorizing the QB then they're going to continue to have major problems.
     
  27. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t think anyone is “giving up” on Suh despite the cynicism floating around. That’s not what I meant when I said I’d trade him in a heartbeat…

    …But I certainly would if I could!

    I really feel most of the criticism we’ve heard over the past couple weeks regarding Suh is just frustration. I can’t speak for the fans, but I know I’m still optimistic he’ll produce at an above-average level this season. After all, he averaged 7+ sacks a year during his 5 years in Detroit. Having faced Kirk Cousins, Blake Bortles and Tyrod Taylor, it’s hard to figure how he’s not off to a hot start. But like you said, it’s 3 games. I’m not worried from a production standpoint because that’s too small a sample size, despite the fact he should be highly motivated with his new contract and that his opponents have all been very sack-able QBs.

    However, I’d still trade the guy in a heartbeat because his contract won’t be good for the team as it goes through a rough period of rebuilding the entire defense. Miami needs defensive talent that’ll be maturing over the next 10 years, not expensive players who are at their peak now. I’m sure it’ll be nice to have him in the same way it was nice to have Cam Wake for a few years.

    It’ll be that same luxury all over again. It’ll be a luxury right up until it’s a curse. It’s a curse when you find out the player has slowly degraded and the production can be matched by relatively average and certainly much more inexpensive players.

    In the meantime there are two challenges. Firstly, Suh has to produce at or near the league leaders in order to justify his salary. That’s certainly not a given. It’ll be hard. That kind of production is never guaranteed. Secondly, you still have to build a unit around that player, and now you’ve got less money to do it.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i can see that...Ive been a big fan of taylor coming out at v-tech, we know they have better skill players, better oline play...better dline overall...your right, we got beat by a better team of talent, but dont ya find it interesting and strange that we got our asses kicked.?

    inferior talent alongside no belief in the coaches equals spanked at home.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i agree, thats why wake is following his lead and not playing well, same with vern and the rest...ur a smart dude.
     
  30. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Wow, ok. I'll just chalk it up to the fact you're not seeing the same unprepared team the majority of the rest of us are. Carry on.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    no check it out, he speaks in code sometimes but his main point is hard to argue against..

    dont you think the bills have more talent as a whole then us?....i do.
     
  32. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Dolphins really need to think outside the box in terms of upgrading the roster bc the Suh contract, plus the other big $$ players severely limit what they can do.

    If Jamar Taylor doesn't come around I'd seriously consider going the Antrell Rolle/Malcolm Jenkins route and moving him to FS. He can run and tackle well enough to do it and he can slide down a cover a slot wr if need be w his CB skills.

    Jawaun James may have to play LT if Albert continues to be unavailable. Can't afford to pay that salary for a part time player. It's not deal but the alternative is spending a 1st round pick. Given the needs at CB, probably two of them given Grimes' age, Id rather spend a 1st rounder there, hipe for the best w James and try to find a decent RT.There won't be enough cap space to fill those spots in FA.

    MLB is also an issue. A top pick isn't absolutely necessary the way it is with CB or LT but a little luck will be needed to find a good one. Then there's DE. Vernon is gone after this year, Wake is off to a painfully slow start. It's another position that doesn't come cheap.

    Parker, Stills, Landry is a decent foundation at WR, Matthews is likely a goner. Jennings should be a goner. Paying Cameron may or may not be affordable, same goes for Miller.

    Whoever the GM is they're gonna have a lot more problems than solutions.
     
  33. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No offense but you sound like one of the guys who watches the game live them draws conclusions on the spot. Its no biggie. I get where you're coming from. But when you say "the majority of us" I can't help but think the "majority of us" don't watch the tape.

    Like many, I assumed the team was flat based on the results. Then i watched again. I strained my eyes trying to find guys who weren't playing hard or engaged in the game and I came up empty until midway thru the 4th quarter. What I saw was guys playing hard, long after the game had been decided. It was both comforting and scary.

    My conclusion is that the Dolphins just aren't a good team. And they played poorly vs a better team that played very well and caught a few breaks. That can easily equally blowout, even if the team is playing hard.
     
  34. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Years of bad drafts got us to that point... This year's draft I won't write off yet, because I like Parker, Phillips, Lippett and some others.... I would have preferred Morse over Phillips but Phillips still has upside, especially since we did sign Suh and Morse fills a need and was the best guard in the draft.. but last year's draft I wrote off immediately. That was just a terrible first draft by Hickey and I said it right away, completely dumbfounded we got James instead of Clinton-Dix. But nevermind the first round, look at the rest of the rounds, with the exception of Landry... how dare he use that many picks on division 2 talent is beyond me. That was just dumb.
     
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  35. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah I gotta give u ur props for calling out Tyrod Taylor.

    But damn, the most upsetting thing about Sunday was how easily the Dolphins D allowed him outside the pocket to make easy throws. I'm thinking that should have been priority one. And after watching NE sack him 8 times I figured Miami could really disrupt him but it was more like a walk in the park. Inexcusable.

    To your point about getting spanked, I talked about it in a previous post. It was several factors. As soon as I saw overcast skies and rain I was bummed. I was hoping for 94 degrees and blazing sun. Then it was Taylor having a cakewalk. Jennings dropping passes that killed two drives. Missed tackles. Bad angles. Sheppard out of position when he should have been in Clay's hip pocket. Landry with a freebie for the D. Tannehill with a pick 6.

    I understand the anger with Philbin and the staff. For me though, I'm pissed at everyone. No one should be let off the hook.
     
  36. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    A wild card might be if Warren Buffett, Suh's friend, dropped a hint to Ross about dissatisfaction with the coaching staff. I wouldn't bet on that, but you never know, but what I'd imagine that Ross has a world of respect for Buffett and whatever he would say/hints that he might have dropped down here last week. I can only hope.
     
  37. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thank you Vert. EVERYBODY needs to feel the heat. Not just Philbin, he's just one of many culprits. I don't get how Hickey signs a bunch of injury prone guys, who guess what? Get injured again. And gets a free pass. Albert, Moreno, Delmas, Fox, wtf?

    I'll take Nolan Carroll over Brice McCain all day long. Chris Clemons is no star but we never saw balls flying over his head every week. Stills, Jennings, invisible. Yeah, Hickey needs his turn on the rotisserie...
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    excellent point about switching jamar to safety, when he was coming out I was enamored with that thought, I thought his tackling ability, especially in a downhill fashion was excellent, he really took the right angles and measured his opponent nicely, fantastic blitzer and just moved like a safety to me, I thought he had that versatilty..amazing to me we havent heard a peep about that.
     
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  39. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Yes, I do. But I wasnt referring to that fact. I was debating his notion that the team wasnt playing unprepared and flat.
     
  40. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Missing the point, again. Listless, lacking energy, not properly focused- this is how the football world saw the Dolphins this year, especially last week. No NFL team, ever, can look as effortless as the South Central Louisiana State University Mud Dogs from the Waterboy- before they turned it around, of course. Discerning a lack of effort or mental preparedness from an NFL team is far more subtle. The team didn't look into it, mentally or emotionally- on a national stage they're not going to show a discernible lack of effort for all or most of a game, not remotely acceptable or passable. You could see it before the game, the players weren't jacked up on what we would call a normal level- energy level of weekly bridge game, not an NFL game. The players were not into it, it's that simple.
     

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