But this specifc role comes with the job of also playing Bruce Wayne, and Conroy doesnt look the part, and has no proof he can ACT the part. If Kevin Conroy was a fat black man, but did the best Batman voice ever, would you still feel the same?
First of all I did say that being a voice actor is acting, didn't I? If I didn't then that's my fault, clearly it is. I'm not trying to take anything anyway from Conroy because I do think he's a great voice actor and he does nail the part. However I don't think you can compare what he does to what a live action actor does as obviously there's more to do with the role and thus is harder, in my opinion. Just take Mark Hamill for example, is he a great Joker voice actor? Yes. But could have he done with Heath Ledger or even Jack did in a live action format? No way. Second, that's complete nonsense if it wasn't for TAS there wouldn't be a Nolan Batman movie. All 4 Batman live action films made WB tons of money, even Batman & Robin as bad as it was made the studio money. The reason why there was such a big gap between B&R and Batman Begins was because the studio needed to distance the franchise from B&R and also because it was looking for the best possibly project to bring life back to the character/franchise. In the 8 year gap between live action movies, WB went through numerous Batman movie projects before finally green lighting Batman Begins. It wasn't like they said the franchise is no more and because TAS was so popular they said to themselves "hey we might need to rethink this" ala Family Guy or Arrested Development. If TAS never happened we would still get more Batman movies. Saying otherwise is silly. There's much more money in movies then TV shows. And the one TAS movie that came out in the movies, while was a good movie/story, only made about 5 million dollars at the box office and hasn't been one since, instead they're all straight to DVD (although most of them are still pretty good). Third, I guess we'll agree to disagree about Bale's performance. Do I think another actor could have nailed the part just as good? Yeah it's possible but you could say that about 90% of the actors/actresses in Hollywood. It's very rare that an actor is just so good he can't be replaced. Anyway getting back to the original debate, I just don't think you can compare being a voice actor to being a live action actor. There's just so much more than goes into the role. Is Conroy the best Batman/Bruce Wayne voice actor of all time, of course there's no debate about that. However and this again is my opinion I just can't call him the definitive Batman/Bruce Wayne because he just does one aspect of the character, the voice. It's like how you can't call a DH in baseball the best all around player because all he does is hit; he doesn't play defense.
The thing you both are refusing to accept is that Kevin Conroy's take on Batman can be the best overall take on Batman without factoring in live action. Again, his Batman doesn't always look the same, whether its the original TAS or the redesigned version found later in the Justice League series or even in the Arkham games. That means that the looks or movement are less relevant than you're making it out to be. Its the embodiment of the character that is most important, and Conroy does that with just his voice, something no one else on the list is capable of. I don't know why you guys just up and decided that to be in the running for best Batman of all time, it has to be a live action actor. That was a condition you two made up into being and frankly its not valid. Now, if you want to say who was the best live action Batman, then fine we can have the discussion, though the three of us will likely agree on the top spot, Bale. And no, TAS/Justice League kept Batman relevant. It produced a generation of people that were ready for a grown up batman movie, as they became grown ups themselves.
I highly disagree. I think Mark Hamill would have not only been an awesome Joker. He could have done a Joker that with subtle differences could have existed in both Universes. Jack's wouldn't fit in Nolan's and Heath's would have looked so out of place in Burton's. Hamill's Joker is the only one with the range to fit in both. I also highly disagree with your last point. Conroy is Batman. Hamill is the definitive Joker. Voice acting is much more difficult then you give it credit.
I disagree with the statement that the Joker is a feat to pull off. IMO, it would be more difficult to do a good Batman/Bruce Wayne than a good Joker. Which is why there has been two good Jokers, three if you count the TV show Joker with Adam West, and maybe one good Batman/Bruce Wayne. I honestly think that Micheal Keaton did it best, as he looked like a Bruce Wayne and had a Batman voice that was not completely silly. Still that is up to debate as I know a lot of people who hate him in that role. The Joker is pretty much crazy, and if you just add a laugh to a lot of characters, they could be a version of the Joker. From Kevin Spacey in Seven to Anthony Hopkins Hannibal Lecter. In fact, I heard a rumor that Wesley Snipes always wanted to play the Joker because he is a huge comic book fan and the Joker is his favorite character. Realizing that he is black and that is never going to happen he decided to play Simon Pheonix like the Joker. Watching the movie with that in mind, he plays a really good Joker.
Because, in my opinion, Conroy only does half the battle with simply being the voice of the character. While the live action actors' roles are much harder. Can you imagine James Earl Jones putting on a Darth Vader costume and having to do action sequences? Again it's just my opinion that when discussing who's the best Batman/Bruce Wayne you can't count voice actors because their roles are imcomplete when you compare them to the guys that actually put on the cape and cowl. You can't tell me it's harder to be a voice actor then a regular actor, yes both roles take a certain type of skill but it's not the same thing. Not sure how it's not valid either besides from being an opinion doesn't Batman/Bruce Wayne have to do other things besides talk? What else does Conroy do for the character? And again how can you say TAS kept Batman relevant and because of that show we got the Nolan movies? TAS ended in 1995, 2 years before Batman & Robin. You can't even make the case that DVD sales helped because the DVDs came out in 2004, which was after Batman Begins was green lit and started production. Again not taking anything away from TAS because it was awesome but without more Batman live action movies get made. It did little to change that. Look we're obviously not going to agree whether or not Kevin Conroy or some live action actor is the best Batman. So what are the most important qualities for THE definitive Bruce Wayne/Batman to have? Why is Conroy the gold standard for the character? What puts him over the edge or ahead of the pack? He doesn't look the part as either Bruce or Batman. We've never seen him in a fight scene. Never seen him in the suit. Besides from his voice, how is he any better then the others before him? See what I'm getting at? He's not a complete Bruce Wayne/Batman actor, hence why I don't consider him in this debate.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that Jack couldn't do Nolan's verison of The Joker and Ledger's couldn't do Burton's because they played the part they were given with the direction that fit with the script/movie. Burton's film and Nolan's movie are completely different in every aspect so of course either character would look out of place. Both Ledger and Nicholson are very good actors though and probably would have done a fine job, maybe not as good as the other but still probably could have done an acceptable job. Mark Hamill on the other hand, I'm not so sure he would have been awesome as a live action actor. It's not like he lit the world on fire in anything he's done before and he's clearly not as good as Ledger or Nicholson. Again I give the guy tons of credit because he's a great voice actor but there's a reason why he's behind a mike instead of being in front of a camera. I agree that voice acting is hard to do and not everyone can to it. It takes a special talent to be truly good at it, which Hamill and Conroy have. But being a live actor is harder. Can we agree on that?
I actually believe that voice acting is more difficult. You have to get a lot over with your voice and you can't use your face and body to convey the emotions. A good voice actor is much more difficult to find than a good actor.
Again I think being a voice actor is hard but I think you're completely wrong to think it's more difficult/harder to be a voice actor than a regular actor. There's a reason why voice actors are voice actors and not in front of a camera. But to each his own I guess....
I watch a lot of things with voice actors. Most of them are really bad. Even if the they are accomplished actors. There are some great actors that can also be great voice actors, however I find that few and far between. Just from my experience in watching things, most good actors are pretty bad to terrible voice actors. The reason why most voice actors are not infront of the camera is because they aren't pretty enough.
Kevin Smith (Silent Bob) just tweeted Ben Affleck is the new batman......anyone got more than that? Or is he full of ****?
edit: http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/ben-affleck-set-play-batman-man-steel-sequel-112801 Thoughts?
Love the choice. I know a lot of people knocked my suggestion of him playing the role but I think he's a good choice. He's really turned into a very good actor, can't wait.
Me too bro. He was awesome in Argo. This isnt the same actor from mallrats. Ben has some great chops under him, and with Cavill and Snyder, this can be a damn good movie.
He was good in The Town too. I know he's not the popular choice but I think he's more then capable to pull it off and do the character justice. David Goyer, the writer of the film, commented that while nothing is official it will most likely be Batman vs. Superman or Superman vs. Batman. More a marketing perspective it makes sense to have both character's names in the title.
I wouldn't be shocked if Affleck also ends up acting and directing the Batman solo reboot film either.
The outcry about Ben Afleck as Batman on twitter has convinced me the Afleck will be a good Batman. Seriously, though, I love the choice. I think he'll kill the role as Bruce Wayne. Make him look like a bad *** in a Batman costume, and I think he'll be fine.
I'll try to be optimistic about Affleck. willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until it comes out.
No matter who got the role there was going to be outrage over Twitter/internet about it. Seriously, when was the last time, in recent memory, that an actor/actress was cast for a superhero role that the internet went nuts over (in a bad way) and they ended up being right? People HATED the Heath Ledger casting, didn't like Anne Hathaway for Catwoman, Chris Evans as Captain America, Hemsworth as Thor, etc.
Rumor is Bryan Cranston will be Lex Luthor in the film. Makes sense, another great actor, big name coming off of Breaking Bad.
Cranston would be an excellent Luthor. We'll finally have a Lex that isn't silly. I'm not sold on Affleck though. I could actually see him as Green Lantern or even Hank Pym (Antman in Marvel)....but I don't know that he's capable of the darkness of Batman. To me, he excels at playing the "bad" guy with a heart, like in the The Town. Batman is the opposite to me, a good guy with a dark side, and I'm not sure Affleck can portray that. I sincerely hope I'm wrong though.
I personally am not a fan of Affleck as Batman as all. To me, he's almost too well known. I'm going to have a hard time buying him playing Bruce Wayne as Batman and not Ben Affleck as Batman. Affleck did okay previously with Daredevil, though that was an obviously flawed movie. The director's cut makes it a little better but it's still somewhat of a mess. His acting has improved - albeit slightly - with age but I've always thought he was a stronger director than actor. I would have rather seen Jon Hamm, personally. Stunt casting was one of the things that doomed the Batman franchise in the late 90s, with guys like Tommy Lee Jones, Jim Carey, Arnold, etc., coming in to ruin the promising start of the Batman franchise. With the casting of Affleck, I'm officially worried about the direction of the next film - and this is coming from the guy who went and saw Man of Steel 4 times over the summer.
I kind of hope they film a deleted scene of Affleck doing the Bale Batman voice while wearing a Batsuit with nipples talking about how he wants to quit being Batman because a girl dumped him.
Oh man, Cranston as Luther would be great. I see this movie being Superman Vs Lex/Batman (indirectly, they wont be working together)....then Batman coming together with Supes at the end to bring down Lex, with an awesome Darkseid tease at the end leading to JLA and I'd be thrilled! Also, glad its not another Batman reboot, give us batman in his late 30s-mid 40s and start from there. No more watching his parents die, and him starting as batman from square one.....jump off from the middle. Love it!
Agree with you about Daredevil and the director's cut. Much like Clooney in B&R, Affleck did a pretty good job with what he was given. Hamm pretty much would have been impossible to get due to Mad Men as both the show and movie will be filming around the same time. WB wants to get this film out by July '15 and there's no way Hamm would walk away from Mad Men in the final season. I don't see this as stunt casting at all. I think Affleck fits in with the 40ish/older Batman Goyer and Snyder are taking the direction of the character. The casting of Jones, Carrey and Arnold weren't the problem with why the Batman franchise was ruined, it was due to WB wanting to make it more kid friendly, the director, the direction and rushing B&R out. Also to say Affleck's acting improved "slightly" with age is a pretty understated. Give him credit, he turned himself into a very good actor and an even better director. After all he has two Oscar awards and was the leading actor in a film that he directed that won best picture last year.
I agree. Batman Begin's origin story was perfect. People know the origin now and Begins is still fresh in people's minds (one of the reasons why I thought it was important that Man of Steel redid the origin was because Superman the movie was over 30 years old). If they want to spend 5 minutes in flashbacks in the first solo Batman film to reintroduce it fine but not the whole movie. Plus, I really think this is going to lead to Affleck writing, directing and starring in the next series of Batman solo films. And based on Affleck's other films he directed that can't be a bad thing at all.
@ThatKevinSmith Holy ****... BEN AFFLECK IS THE NEW BATMAN!!! http://variety.com/2013/film/news/ben-affleck-is-the-new-batman-1200586881/ … Do you know what this means? It means that I've seen Batman naked!!! Kevin can also now say he owns Batman's house as he bought Ben Affleck's house years ago. By the way if your a Kevin Smith fan and a Batman fan.....Kevin does a podcast called Fatman On Batman. Good stuff. http://smodcast.com/channels/fatman-on-batman/
Did he kill anyone in that movie? I honestly can't remember, I thought it was only Jeremy Reiner who did. Regardless he was the protagonist in that movie, he can pull off a good guy with a darkside.
