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Tannehill blames footwork for current inaccuracy issues

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddPhin, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I mentioned his footwork on page 8 of the Matt Moore thread but nobody seemed to want to discuss it. Fans need to understand that Tannehill had mechanical issues last year, and they didn't appear to be properly addressed by the coaching staff then. This year [and I'm assuming with Lazor's assistance] Ryan worked exhaustingly on fixing it. The fruits of that labor seemed to show up during training camp, but there aren't games on the line during training camp so he was able to focus more conscious attention on it. Now the season is here and live bullets are flying. Ryan no longer has time to think about what his feet are doing while they're doing it. As a result, we're seeing inconsistency issues because his footwork hasn't had sufficient reps to become second nature.

    It's probably easier for most fans to relate it to a golf swing. Just because you've either corrected it or learned one properly, it doesn't mean you're gonna be hitting accurate balls right away. You likely won't go from shooting 90's or 100's to 70's or 80's overnight. You still need a ton of reps to develop that level of consistency.
     
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  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Pretty good points, phinsational.
     
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  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Who? Where? Wt-? :pointlol:
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Todd Phin? Any relation to Huckleberry Phin? :shifty:

    How about Huckleberry Hound? :wink2:
     
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  5. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    I'm sure I won't be able to articulate this the way I want to but I'll give it a shot.

    It somewhat bothers me when I hear Philbin stress numerous times (since he's been here) when asked about giving extra help against certain excellent pass rushers, his response always includes something like "an Olineman needs to be able to block 1v1".

    I get that, but your QB is young, inexperienced, played behind a horrible line, and now having accuracy issues because of footwork. WTF does it take to get him moving out more to have more space or extra blockers??

    Set him up for success for gods sake!
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Toddphins? HE IS A WITCH! BURN HIM!
     
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  7. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah fark that phinsational guy
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't have anything witty to say..

    Like meister, who just comes in and acts all like he's a comedian and sh^^.
     
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  9. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    shaddup
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    About what Todd was saying, well, he did play wide receiver in college..I'm done analyzing him, I'm just gonna let it play out for a while and show us whether or not he's good enough to go on the road in a hostile environment and play well enough where it helps our team win the game..
     
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  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Now that you mention it, if Tannehill is experiencing inconsistency with his footwork, I'm inclined to think it would behoove Coach Lazor to get him on the move more often b/c of how well he throws on the run, amIright?
     
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  12. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    It looked like they had 5 Olineman blocking that Buffalo line 90% of the time. Poor guy can't set his feet under that type of pressure to begin with. I know a good portion of it is on Tannehill, but give me a damn break....
     
  13. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    Much of this was mentioned by me and dj a couple of days ago. It's a multitude of things. Thinking too much, no time to set his feet on some plays, bad routes and drops by receivers. I really think it hurt him to be a converted WR and not play QB in high school and 3-4 yrs in college.
    [​IMG] Originally Posted by djphinfan [​IMG]
    Here's where I'm at at this point fwiw, it's really hard to figure out but we can tell something isn't going well with him, we can see that his individual performance is subpar, I think we all can agree with that, despite the non Qb variables that do impact numbers and performance.

    What I think is going on in his mind is he's practicing well with his teammates and the speed is good,in practice,and he's throwing to his spots accurately, (I mean how many times have we heard that term this offseason and camp?), " this offense is about throwing to spots on the field" I've heard it a dozen times, however when he gets in the game, everything is faster, receivers are played differently in coverage, those "spots" get moved, and he's not adjusting..if anyone thinks this dude is not in his own head then post a gif of the deep ball to Wallace in the first, he threw that like quite frankly like a pu!!y.

    He's thinking way to much, he's lost some confidence, and he's not engaging his legs at all, ( I heard a Bernie kosar reference the other day, lol) maybe we just gotta listen to Arians on this and give him another 6 games to see if he can stop thinking so much and just play, bahananananana, just be the ball Danny..I mean Tanny"



    I see the same thing. On several throws, his feet were not set and that's part of the accuracy problem. Other times, especially the long ball and the throws behind receivers, he is thinking too much and not doing it by instinct. The throw to Miller that was dropped, I saw him let that rip without thinking and it was dead on target while Miller was well covered and on the move. The TD to Wallace was thrown to a spot, and many of the come backs to Wallace and Hartline are thrown before the receiver turns around and he's accurate with those and he's accurate on the move. A couple of sacks were because he held the ball too long and that is what I think will be fixed for the remainder of our games. Lazor won't stand for those coverage sacks without an outlet receiver.
     
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  14. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    He was a prick, but he's still a prick as well.
     
  15. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    There wasn't any doubt in my mind his accuracy problems were related to his footwork. Glad he sees it and will address it.

    I don't know if he'll ever fix it though. He's got naturally dead feet. No rhythm in his drop backs.
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    From the bottom of my heart, I truly appreciate all the love I'm receiving in this thread.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    Whatever happened to the annoying thesis guy?
     
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  18. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Ryan absolutely has footwork problems, and to top that off it looks like last years 58 sacks have given him "happy feet" one of the worst things a QB can develop in his career.

    I'm watching Matt Ryan step up in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield, and make excellent throws pretty consistently. I was hoping Tanny would get to that Matt Ryan level this year...a combination of things are ruining the kid before our eyes. And no sports fans, I'm not basing this off of last Sunday.
     
  19. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    And that's precisely what Tannehill doesn't do. He doesn't multi-task and respond to the rush with movement while he also goes through his reads downfield. He's transfixed on his reads and pays too little attention to the rush.
     
  20. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Anyone else notice Ryan doesn't stand well in the pocket also?? Not sure if I'm explaining what I'm saying right....but his posture looks undecided. If any of that makes sense.
     
  21. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    He doesn't seem to have command of the position overall. The entirety of the position is not second nature to him. Watch Tom Brady in his prime and see how much command he has of the position. Tannehill has comparatively little of that. Consequently he isn't "in command," and like you said he looks "undecided." Brady and the other great quarterbacks by contrast look very in command.
     
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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    During the Buffalo game I noticed he wasn't consistently squaring up with his targets. I thought much of these involved either leaving his footwork open [upon throw] or opening up his hips too soon and leaving his arm trailing behind, thus causing his passes to sail or fly right/left. Maybe it'll help his footwork a little just by getting more accustomed to his new sets of progressions, b/c right now his feet don't seem hardwired well to his eyes. His eyes might be looking at his target but his left foot or right hip might be looking elsewhere.

    Not to mention, having oodles of pressure in your face probably isn't very conducive to sound footwork shortly after you've made adjustments to it.
     
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  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    IDK, I haven't kept up with Shouright to be honest. :shifty:
     
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  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    And therein lies the rub. Is Tannehill like this because he truly lacks in these areas, or is he like this because he's unfortunately had far fewer pass reps than most QBs at this same stage b/c of his time spent at receiver?

    There's another angle as well to consider. During the previous two years there was criticism of Mike Sherman's handling of Tannehill's status in the pocket, specifically that he was limiting Tannehill's ability to use his legs, rather instead keeping him steadfast in the pocket at the expense of developing his instincts. Now with that said, who was Tannehill's coach in college? Do you see what I'm plausibly getting at?
     
  25. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    There's a lack of urgency or suddenness or twitchy-ness in his lower body. It's slow and almost too smooth to the point of looking a bit weird at times. Like, i want to see that choppier ability to climb/bail/reset/turn through progressions in a manner that's quick and sudden and reactive to what's around him. He doesn't seem to have that. He glides through things kind of haphazardly and even robotically at times. He just has the arm to make up for it in lots of instances.
     
  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Ohhh..Im sure hes closer then you imagined
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Not here at least. I've yet to see a wikipedia reference since he departed.
     
  28. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    There was always much more projection involved with Tannehill than people want to admit. His fundamentals being an issue isn't that big a surprise when you consider:

    a) When he got to A&M he was third-string-ish, not good enough to be kept at QB full-time.
    b) When he did move back to QB he got beat out for the job by Jerrod Johnson.
    c) He was consistently in the bottom of FBS in YPA (while playing in a conference that barely played defense)
    d) He never won big at A&M, and lost just about all of his big games (highest-ranked finish #21)

    That's not exactly the resume of a stud QB prospect. Some people look at his WR time as a good thing, that there's still time for him to "get it." But the fact that he was moved to WR for almost over two full collegiate seasons speaks to his history of "not getting it."
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Who the **** are you?
     
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  30. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Idk. I kinda miss being told that if I disagree with an argument about a sports team that I am having a clinical failure of my cognitive abilities and may need to seek medical attention


    Sent from my Note 3
     
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  31. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Good to see Mr T in the house.

    I agree on the footwork. I worry that, at this point, there are just several flaws which are fundamental that I wonder when or if he'll ever be ready. I also don't think he scans the field well at all. When I can, I watch the games over and over again and it's something I look for when I'm watching games live. He just doesn't do that well. It's the antithesis of Marino saying to Bill Walsh: "Hey man, I just see the open man and I'm going to hit him". I know that's the extreme example, but he needs some of that in his game. BTW, I wish we would hear what Dan thinks.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As in not quick..lateral agility is not good..

    If you gonna be a pocket Qb you better be a good one..imo, screw all that crap and run your *** off.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I respectfully don't agree with the above.
    a) I believe Tannehill was moved to WR simply b/c A&M's offense was thin at the position while they transitioned from an option offense under Dennis Franchione to a spread offense under Sherman. It's not uncommon for a freshman QB to be on the bench, and Mike Sherman felt Ryan would be a greater asset to the team on the field at WR than off it as a QB. Who Tannehill was on the bench behind is irrelevant. Joe Montana was the 3rd QB on the depth chart during his fourth year in college, and he might not have become the starter in the fourth game of that season had Notre Dame's backup not broken his back.

    Why is it an issue that Jerrod Johnson, one of the nation's highest regarded option-QB recruits who had already been groomed in Franchione's option offense for a year, beat out the first year Tannehill for the backup job? Ditto for Stephen McGee who was no slouch of an option QB as the starter and was in his 4th year when Tannehill arrived. Now, McGee was rightfully deemed a developmental QB when he was drafted because of the option offense he came from. So, if the offense stunted McGee's development as a passing QB, how much development or lack thereof as a passer do you think occurred during Tannehill's first year at A&M? Probably not much. Also keep in mind that the developmental McGee attempted more career passes at A&M than Tannehill did.

    b) Tannehill spent year 2 at WR. Meanwhile, Jerrod Johnson continued to develop at QB where he added 326 pass attempts and 22 passing TDs to his belt, so why would it be a knock on Tannehill to get beat out his third year when Jerrod clearly had an experience advantage and was playing at an All-Big 12 level?

    Once Tannehill was edged out at starting QB in year 3, he was again moved back to WR because he was yet again deemed more valuable on the field than off it.

    So that's 3 consecutive years with little development as a passer- 1 due to an option offense and 2 due to playing receiver. On top of that, he spent the first 6 games of year 4 at WR, as Jerrod Johnson headed into 2010 as the preseason All-Big 12 Offensive POY, again- hardly a knock against Tannehill. Ryan moved to QB during the 7th game where, despite his stunted development and lack of experience, he proceeded to throw 4 TDs and 445 yards in his first career start. Over the next four games he beat then-11th ranked Oklahoma, 9th ranked Nebraska, and in-state rival Texas en route to All-Big 12 Honorable Mention in half a season of play. Not bad for a spread QB who spent much of the previous three years as an option QB and receiver.

    After including his senior year, for all intents and purposes Tannehill only had a year and a half's worth of college time spent as a passer compared to most everyone else who benefitted from 4 or 5 years. He might be beginning year 3 in the NFL but he's basically only in year 4 as a passing QB. Andew Luck was at Stanford when he was in year 4 as a passing QB. Let's also not omit the fact that at a time when most QBs are receiving an upgrade in coaching as they reach the NFL, Tannehill was saddled in Miami with his same assistant QB coach Zac Taylor from A&M.

    C) As far as his YPA and "beating top teams", it's difficult to accomplish either when his receivers were busy dropping as many balls as they caught. On paper it's easy to say Tannehill couldn't beat then-7th ranked Oklahoma State and had a bad day with 3 INTs; on film, however, that conclusion isn't supported. He beat Robert Griffin's 20th ranked Baylor, out-dueling RG3 in the process- throwing 6 TDs to his 3. It's not Tannehill's fault A&M's defense allowed 42 pts to 18th ranked Arkansas, 41 pts to 7th ranked Oklahoma, 53 pts to Kansas State, and defensively ranked 70th in scoring for the season. Sherman was fired by A&M. I think he had more to do with A&M's inability to win big games in 2011 than Tannehill.
     
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  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'm :batman:
     
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  35. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I remember reading a scouting report that said Tannehill was a duck footed. It's hard to tell with TV camera angles. Anyone notice this issue?
     
  36. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    Precisely. I think if Tannehill had been selected by another team in the first round, we'd be expecting very little from him in his career at this point. When he's selected in the first round by your own team, however, you hold out hope until the final hour.
     
  37. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Probably because he's not sure which DL is about to smash into him. I thought in the Bills game he was starting to get happy feet which isn't a good sign.
     
  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think I'll spend the day digging up that thread where and when I realized Phinsational was Toddphins and everybody laughed at me and told me I was crazy… :shifty:
     
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  39. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Good points, Toddphins..
    Sometimes in considering what's happened with the QB position for the Dolphins two things come to mind.
    If you're old enough, you are spoiled by Marino - even though he brought no championships to the team, his QB play was phenomenal. The failure of those teams was mostly on the inability of the defenses to hold.
    Now, because of that, we are consumed with the instant gratification mindset. Any QB coming into the league has to be a winner by year three - never mind changing coaches, lousy offensive lines, no running game, or anything else whatsoever. The QB HAS to carry the team and all responsibility for the W-L record lies solely with him. El Torro Poopoo!

    That reasoning is what makes impatience a virtue, and demands blind mindless change no matter how unreasonable it may be. Unfortunately, real life is not like the majority of television programming - all problems are not sorted out and corrected in half hour or full hour segments - and teams are not built overnight - in spite of howling viewers/fans. The point Toddphins made about Sherman and Taylor are significant. His coaching was the 'same old same old' in a different venue.

    I think he needs the majority of this year to see if he can pick up the new coaching, get his rhythms down, and, hopefully, have a line that can give him time to get ready to pass instead of ready to run for his life. We have far too many fans who are desperate for a winner to give the team time to come together as a unit before beginning to retool the whole thing - which is what starting with a newly drafted rookie QB would be. It would also be a knucklehead move unless Tannehill just totally augers in this year.
     
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  40. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Ive been reading some stuff on the QB position over at trojanfootballanalysis.com and came across this. After reading this...take at a look at his throws...does the timing seem correct?

    One of the cornerstones of efficient quarterback play is the ability to control your drop so that you
    reach the end of it just as the receiver is about to break open. Usually, this means that the quarterback should employ a controlled drop and glide back rather than rush or hurry back in a violent manner. When a quarterback sprints back too fast, he has to be just as violent in trying to stop himself. When this occurs, it’s very hard to be balanced and have his shoulders level for the throw, or have any rhythm with the receiver. When a quarterback glides back, creates a rhythm in his drop and in his throw, he isable to see things down field more clearly and throw the ball more effectively in an efficient, smooth manner. It is imperative that the quarterback be in
    a position to see the entire field during his drop

    Moreover, by throwing the football precisely at the end of the drop, the offensive
    line is better able to control the rush of the defenders. When quarterbacks hurry their drops, they end up having trouble with their mechanics because they are usually off-balance when the try to throw the pass. Many times when they do get to the end of their drops, they have to wait for the receivers to break open. Often they will be just standing back there getting tense while the rushers now have an aiming point. Once the quarterback hits the end of the drop, the rushers can really push up field toward them. When a quarterback glides back, hits the end of
    his drop, and releases the pass, the defenders eventually let up right away. In fact, later on in
    the game, you will notice that when this type of quarterback hits the end of his drop, the rushers usually let up, even when the quarterback is hitching up in the pocket to throw. The quarterback has trained the defense to realize that the ball is gone as soon as the he hits the last step in the drop. Creating this rhythm can really have an effect on the pass rush, and also increase the accuracy of the throw.

    http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/pdfdocs/2009qbmanual.pdf
     

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