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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 14, 2018.
LOL, all I said was that Osweiler got the ball in our playmakers hands more times than Tanny does. Unless Tanny unloads his one bomb per game all he does is throw within five yards. Osweiler took more chances. Nothing more nothing less
Just a couple of points.
1) The “Wilson made the plays” and “poor Chicago tackling” mantra is really dissing some very stout downfield blocking
1a) These are also the type of plays the offense is designed to generate which is why Landry was allowed to walk.
2) the strip sack would be brutal on any shoulder.
3) If the OL had put the same effort in against Cincy and NE as they did against Chicago then we’d be a very good chance of being 6-0. I do think it is a legitimate question to ask why the OL seems to put more effort into protecting the backups than RT.
O'Leary, Drake, and Stills all deserve credit for Wilson's 75 yard touchdown pass.
If he's not 100% I say rest him, but if he's 100% you play him. I know this will be unpopular but foreseeing that our offensive line will always be that dominant or brock will play the way he did is just foolish. Ryan is still the better athlete and has the bigger arm when he is healthy. I will say that he's looked slow mentally the past few weeks but that could also be rust against certain defenses. But again, he faced a lot more pressure than Brock did this past weekend. You play the guy with the better skillset that gives you a better chance to win against any given opponent. Ryan Tannehill is more gifted than Brock, you play him.
Gisecki and James on the 43 yarder too.
I think there is probably a team-wise effort to compensate for the backup QB that extends beyond the offensive line.
I didn’t play football, I played rugby. But, I remember one of my friends who did play tell me a story from his college days as an G.
At the college he went to (from memory it’s a division III school not a big name colleg) the starting QB was very talented but a complete arrogant a-hole. One of the Betas pretending to be an Alpha types I gather. Anyway if the ball got fumbled the QB stood back and waited for others to dive in, never blocked on reverses, would jog routes with wildcat plays but would always finger point and blame others if plays got unstuck. Anyways normally there’s 2,3 or 4 sacks a game plus some more QB hits fairly run of the mill pressure allowed.
In his senior year the QB was injured and replaced by a sophomore QB, who had a much inferior arm. However on the kid’s first olay the center fumbled the ball and the young kid dove straight on top of the ball. After that he didn’t get another grass stain on his jersey and the OL refused to allow him to get hit for 3 games until the regular QB came back, and then the sacks started again.
In my buddy’s case it wasn’t lifting their effort for the backup. It was lifting their game for a guy they respected.
Isn't this like the 3rd shoulder injury we have had this year? Damn, the luck!
Here's why I think it's more than a sore shoulder-
1) Gase is instantly irritated and becomes increasingly more frustrated as he talks.
2) He starts with HIPPA laws...who brings up patient privacy over a sore shoulder? Injuries are always shared in the NFL unless its a personal issue.
3) Then he says, "I don't know"...referring to the HIPPA law. He's uncomfortable because he's a poor liar. Then adds, "I don't ask him ALL THESE QUESTIONS...." When has a coach ever not asked how long he'll be without his starting QB? That's one question and it's a very simple one.
4) He closes his little rant with "Go ask him. He's not ready right now and we'll keep those details to us. You don't need to know that." So which is it? Should we ask him or is it private?
Again, Gase is a terrible liar and these four statements don't add up. There's something else going on here that the team doesn't want us to know. I think it's as simple as RT wasn't showing the confidence to start and we used the shoulder as an official excuse. But there's definitely something more to this story for Gase to be that uncomfortable. Ryan has a personal problem that the media can't know about.
Whats so funny? Are you laughing at yourself? Because, I suggest you go back and watch the plays where Brock "gets the ball to the playmakers hands" then. They're exactly those same plays we run every week where Tannehill only "throws within 5 yards", and guess who he's throwing those to? Usually Wilson, Grant, and Drake... aka the play makers on this offense. One is a WR screen, the other Albert is on a simple crossing route, Brock had tons of time, and it actually looks more like a checkdown throw as he was looking deep first, Albert just made things happen after the catch. Those were identical plays to those we call with Tannehill all year long, that everyone complains about. They're almost never going to work out like they did on Sunday, and they didn't several other times that game, including after the Wilson TD's. The point I'm making remains here, Brock did some things well and better than Ryan (especially with respect to pocket presence), but those big plays aren't indicative of QB play, much like Ryan's 3TD game against Oakland isn't. Again, the biggest thing that happened Sunday we got better pass protection, we established and stuck with a running game, Albert Wilson made 2 HUGE plays with the help of the Bears D, we didnt take unnecessary sacks. We can agree to disagree here, that's fine. People just need to keep themselves in check here over this win, that's all I'm saying.
I think you're missing the bigger picture here. He just doesn't want to give out the information. Coaches don't like to give it out. Why reveal your hand in advance, especially when it comes to QB. I think this is a simple as Ryan is hurt, they're not sure how long he's out which is why he's calling him day to day rather than week to week or something worst. Gase is just pulling a Belichick here and doesn't really care to reveal to everyone why, and is probably frustrated he's losing his starting QB again. He's just dodging from telling the media the truth and doesn't really give a **** IMO. The only part that makes it weird to me, is the "go ask him" part, but I assume that's just out of frustration at that point. He made it pretty clear to the media that he wasn't going to reveal anything, and said he didnt know, but then got asked how many more times?
I think everyone is just blowing this out of proportion here. He's hurt. They don't want to reveal why or what, or when he'll be back. What's the big deal? It's not like NE, or any other team hasn't done similar things in the past. This speculation about it being beyond that is crazy IMO. Although Ryan and his wife just did have a second child, maybe there's an issue there that's troubling them, but I doubt it. When you see that hit he takes to the arm on the strip/fumble, it's pretty easy to look at that and see how he's possible got a potentially big issue with that shoulder.
Identical play calls correct. However, Brock did something that Tannehill fails to due quite a bit, and thats get the ball there on time. RT has an issue anticipating plays. Hes got the see the opening or the play before he throws it. Tannehill is effected by pressure more than what Brock was yesterday. You even said "we didnt take unnecessary sacks". That is Tannehill. Ryan is likely taking at least one, probably two of those sacks yesterday.
Look, there is little to no chance that Brock has all the sudden turned into the QB he was Sunday. So Ryan has to be the guy if healthy. But do not diminish the fact that Brock played better than Tannehill has in a while. When was the last time RT threw for 380 yards? When was the last time this offense was so good on 3rd down?
Tannehill guys are talking about Wilson making 2 huge plays, which he 100% did, but Brock still threw for 380. Not too long ago Wilson and Grant took shovel passes a long ways and RT fans defended them as "ALL QBs GET THOSE KIND OF YARDS"...oh by the way, the game that Tannehill had those two shovel passes he threw for more than 100 yards less than Brock. Like I said, RT is the guy, unless against Detriot Brock starts and repeats, then you have to actually take a look at it.
I am not sure if there is more to it than the shoulder, but if Gase is holding RT out because he is not running the offense like he thinks it should be run, then I respect Gase more than ever. For me, the nice thing about BO winning is that if RT continues to struggle then Gase might pull RT and put in BO. Sure, that would start a QB controversy, but maybe in doing so it may elevate both their games. Something, I think would be nice because the games are going to get tougher.
You could be right....maybe it is Gase playing coy. It really didn't feel that way to me though since he started lying. If that's the case, then why not just say we don't know today and I'm not talking about it. Why go into making up HIPPA crap and backpedaling?
I didn't even think about the newborn. Maybe he's not getting enough sleep and that's throwing off his mental preparation. I just think there's another wrinkle to this.
Oh, absolutely! I've been saying that all along, I'm not trying to take anything away from BO's performance. I'm just saying people need to keep it in perspective with what REALLY happened with those two big plays. It's not like that success was from a change at the QB position. That wasn't much at all to do with the QB. One was a WR screen. It's take the snap, set, throw. The other was quite simply a checkdown where he had all the time in the world that Wilson blew up.
The part I loved, was the times he got out of the pocket, and threw it away. I can't remember the last time I saw Ryan do something like that.
I've also been quite clear about not giving a rat's *** about the Oakland game. That's the pure definition of QB stat padding on those two TD's from the shovel passes, I'm with you there.
I don't think we can sit here though and look at the 380 number and go yeah... That's all Brock, he's better. It's as if some are thinking that, and that's where I'm saying.. hold up! Especially with so many RAC yards contributing to that 380 total. Sure, better QB play can lead to RAC yards if you're hitting guys downfield in stride, with good anticipation and placement, it can make a HUGE difference. It did appear his placement and anticipation was good on some of the more downfield stuff, but still the majority of those RAC yards came on those little quick short screens, or dump offs. That's the WR and sometimes the D not playing it well, not the QB. That's all I'm saying.
Again, let me be clear, I saw, and am aware of the other things that Brock appeared to look better at. I'm not disputing that. I'm not trying to defend Tannehill in anyway either. Quite frankly, I dont care. I don't see either of these guys under center for Miami next year, at least not in my opinion anyways.
I do agree though, if we see Osweiler again this weekend, and we see some of the same in those positive areas, there's something to consider. IF we see more WR screens and checkdowns being taken to the house by guys who make guys miss, and shoddy defense/tackling, I'm still not going to be all that impressed. Now if we start taking more shots downfield, and he's making beauty throws hitting guys in stride with good anticipation and that leads to RAC, or simply chunk plays, again, I'm now taking notice. I'm just not going to put alot of emphasis on screens and dump offs that lead to big gains. It's a positive for the team, but not necessarily for me when I'm looking at the QB's performance.
Yeah, but all coaches lie to the media, especially on injuries where it's not blatantly obvious what happened. Guy blows out his ACL, breaks a leg, yeah, not much you can say. If you've got a muscle issue, strain, sprain, something that is a day to day thing like this very well could be, you really don't know how he's going to feel and when he's going to be back, you just BS your way through it. He seems very frustrated and impatient with the media in general. With the guys down there in Miami working in that media room, wouldn't you be? They're just constantly looking for negativity to report, and ways to cause problems and issues, so he's likely looking at it more from the standpoint of I'm not giving you guys anything. Quite frankly, I don't blame him. I wish he was maybe a bit more gracious with it, but if the teams winning, I really don't care what he says to the media, or how.
I doubt it would be a sleep thing from a newborn. If it's related to that, it's likely more serious. Lauren posts an awful lot on social media, and did when their son was born, there's been one post I recall seeing about the newborn daughter and she's been relatively silent since. So, maybe something is up health wise there.
Personally though, I doubt it. I think it's more on the shoulder, and the frustration of having a last minute change of plan having to go to Osweiler last minute without being able to prep him, and the uncertainty of knowing when Ryan may be back.
I don't buy it as a preparation thing, a lack of focus or sleep, or anything else personal related. It's a shoulder problem likely, one that just doesn't have alot of clarity on his return.
I read yesterday that mack had an ankle injury he was playing through!!
The play that stands out to me of a play RT would have never made was the first pass to grant, the one where he looked off grant went through his progression and grant did a double move and went up field. The best part of it is BO threw it b 4 grant even started up field after coming back from his progressions. it was a very nice play from BO on 3rd and 5 and hitting grant 15-20 yards in the air. if that were RT it would a been a 4 yard pass or screen and a punt (most likely).
Not being an X's and O's guy myself, I am curious though if someone has game footage from this year of both RT and BO executing the same play? It would interesting to evaluate them for comparison and see who executes those plays better. I have suspected that RT can be late with his throws, and when watching the highlights it looked like BO had better timing. Of course, this is me and my untrained eye. No worries, if it's not something anyone wants to do. Just thought I would ask because it might shed some light on who is better at executing our offense.
Gisecki? lol....He totaled whiffed on his block.
I agree on most points here, and to expand a bit...
#1... Tou're right, there was some good downfield blocking that we don't normally get when we call those plays. I'm not sure I'd suggest that was on Gesicki's part though. There was also tough some pretty poor angles by some Bear defenders. It was almost as if they really had no clue how fast and shifty Wilson really is.
#1a. Exactly. Landry was shifty, but he was slow while doing so it seemed. Felt a bit like slow motion. Wilson and Grant on the other hand, are quick. I'm talking quickness here, not speed. Obviously their fast, but they're quick and decisive in and out of their breaks and cuts as if it's natural. With Landry, he was shifty, but he lacked that quickness and top end speed to really make those plays work like Wilson and Grant can.
#2. Absolutely. It's hit at essentially the worst possible moment during the throw, and it's hit at a really bad angle too. Have to wonder if there's some joint issues going on there.
#3. Not so sure if it was effort, as much as really just having Tunsil out there as opposed to Young. Some of the folks here who bash him should take notice of the difference in our OL with him in, as opposed to with him out. Qb play though, has a bit to do with the OL too. BO I thought did a good job of avoiding taking sacks by moving, throwing it away, and possibly even with protection calls. That being said, OL did a great job opening running lanes too, which they struggled with the last two weeks really.
Brock played well enough to win. 99% of the time, RT plays well enough to win. Neither QB will carry the team. In fact, there are 2 QB's currently playing that carry their team on a regular basis...Rodgers and Brees...so finding a QB like them probably won't happen.
However, what we witnessed on Sunday was a total team win. A win that teams like the Pats and Steelers, for example, make all the time. (Albeit, typically with less mistakes than the Dolphins made) However, if the TEAM plays for the rest of the season like they did this past Sunday, no mater if RT or Brock is back there, they have a good shot at the playoffs.
Mack had 17 rushes from the right side and 12 from the left side. Either way both tackles with a little help did a good job on him. Needs to be mentioned that Mack had an ankle injury he played thru that also helped slow him down as well.
Normally I'd 100% agree with you on RT playing well enough to win- he's been great the past 15 games overall. People have short memories though and there's no getting around him losing that Cinci game. And until he shows that he's shaken that off, it's going to remain in the back of people's minds. I'm not in love with Osweiler but his presence in the pocket is worlds better than Tannehill's. That's impossible to ignore with that Bengals game still on everyone's mind...we lost a game that we basically dominated because of pocket presence.
You are dead-right though that all of our wins this season have been team wins. Although Albert and Grant have scored most of the points, it's been great blocking, great defense and very high effort all across the roster. Our rookies and young players are also playing great and showing real growth since week 1, which means we're only getting better with time. I am very excited for this team and I think we have an excellent shot at the playoffs. Heck, I still think we have an excellent shot at winning the division outright.
Biggest difference I saw was when the play wasn’t there BRock three the ball out of bounds and played it safe for the most part. Ryan tends to force a play and causes the INT in the past.
I want to see Brock with a full week of practice under his belt.
Strike 12 your out.
What I think will be an interesting study is how far can Brocks style of leading and communicating and game managing with his teammates can take the team, and, what that looks like in production relative to how ryan operates..
Can’t wait for Sunday, really hope the fan base is energized now and gets behind the team.
Osweiler has less talent than Tannehill, we all know that.
Osweiler has a much better feel for the game than Tannehill, this is not saying BO is some great intangibles guy. Tannehill is simply horrible in that department.
BO was calling out protection pre snap, changing plays and able to feel the rush when it was coming. I don't know how many times i have watch RT stand there survey the defense watch the receivers point to a blitzer and go deer in headlights as that blitzer bears down on him. Sadly, BO is not the answer, and this team with a really good qb would be a REAL contender.
The 2 point play is a play that Tannehill would never make. Both his first 2 options are on the ground, that play is drawn up for Amendola. He stays with the play and drops a great touch pass to stills. RT has zero chance to make that play. primary down, 2nd option down, thats where RT goes to robot mode.
Yes the line played better than after Tunsil went out, they played pretty ,much how they have all year outside the Sam Young meltdown. It isnt a coincidence they didnt allow a sack, they didnt magically go from sucking to good against arguably the best front in the league.
Tannehill has great arm talent, is a really good straight line runner, and a great dude. he just isnt a football player at the position, he doesnt have the feel for the game. Thats how you take a preseason top 10 college team and go 7-6 when you are a first round pick.
I always want the best player to play. I don't care if you are an undrafted rookie, a big-time free agent, or an incumbent starter. That is the only way to keep the respect of the players and reward hard work.
If Tannehill is hurt then Osweiler is probably the better option.
Nope laughing at you. You really love to hear yourself talk. You think someone is reading all that? Ha. You spend way too much time here
Wow, thanks for the highly intelligent conversation. Exactly what I figured I'd get from you. Apparently you're the one who likes to hear yourself talk since you aren't interested in what anyone has to say. Why spend time here if you aren't going to read? This isn't twitter; nobody really cares about your short little hot take responses. I guess maybe reading is beyond your skill set? Or maybe you just can't handle an intelligent conversation around something that it appears is clearly beyond your level of understanding. That's ok too I guess. I'll make it easy for you, I'll block you, or you can block me... then I won't have to see your nonsense, and you wont have to see something you don't want to read? Deal?
That article said he needs 2-3 weeks of rest to get past it...but their main source was 3 Yards per Carry. Isn't that us? (or our Fin family anyway, LOL) Do we trust us on that? I get nervous when an article quotes a source that heard it from numerous unnamed sources.
In any case though, it looks like we'll have Osweiler for the next two games since the Texans will be on a short week.
Here, I'll keep this one short for you. Re-read your bolded statement above and lets have a laugh together, shall we?
Courtesy of our very own Travis AKA Aqua4ever04(Thanks for your great work!):
"Only five of Osweiler’s completions traveled more than five yards" Including all 3 TD throws. I'll count the rest for you too so you dont have to look/read. He threw 11 past 5 yards, completing 4.
Again, the only point here to laugh at is yours. Especially that bolded one.
You can stop reading now if you like. I don't want this to get too long for you.
However, if you can find the time... take a look at the other charts from previous weeks. You'll see Tannehill throws past 5 yards more than you think, but you should also see that we throw short of 5 yards regularly, typically by design. That's just this offense. Now, if BO plays again Sunday, and that trend shifts, then we're definitely on to something that the offense has been limited by RT and shifting more downfield with Osweiler at QB. However, from what we saw Sunday, that's just not the case. We simply saw WR's making plays off of our usual short passes
On a side note.. What I like about that chart for Brock, is how many past 5 yards were on 3rd/4th down. I mean, it sucks that we're having to go that long on 3rd/4th down, but nice to see him trying to throw deeper when it matters. Context there is missing though.
You should just block the trolls. I doubt this guy is even a Dolphins fan.
Long lanky awkward Brock is about to pull a Kurt Warner, a Jeff Hostetler and take this team to the promised land!
Adam BeasleyVerified account @AdamHBeasley 3h3 hours ago
UPDATED: Ryan Tannehill ruled out for Lions game
I guess we'll see wtf happens this sunday when Detroit has time to prep for the Lobster.
Hoping having a week practicing with the starters helps