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Tannehill with another first....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Shane Falco, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Nobody ever said he couldn't ...... but obviously you're here to bait and not have actual discussion.

    In the world of the happy adjuster, singular games define trends. Singular games wash away an entire career of inconsistency and downright futility (at times) vs. the rest of the division. A man who's:

    1. 8-16 starting record vs the AFC East
    2. Completed 57.7% of his passes
    3. 30 TD's vs. 25 INT's
    4. 75.5 passer rating
    5. 6.22 YPA

    But, but, but if we just tweak here and add a little bit there ..... find the utopian offense for him we can win when it matters!
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah, gotta agree with Rock Sexton on this one (about the trend issue). He's quoting the splits you can see here against the AFC East:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TannRy00/splits//

    Anyway, regarding "coming through in the 4th quarter", the problem is Tannehill is really bad with less than 4 minutes left in the 4th quarter while trailing. We were never behind in the 4th in the NE game so the "clutch" issue talked about around here doesn't apply.
     
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  3. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The only "baiting" I'll be doing tonight is in private while watching Tannehill highlights from Sunday.
     
  4. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    By the way, our defense gave up 30.8 PPG against the division this year. BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!!!

    And in a stunning development, the one division game where our defense played well, we won.

    One last thing, Tannehill in the last three division games:

    64% completion
    1,008 yards
    7.6 YPA
    5 TD
    1 INT
    97 PR

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    /end stupid Thill hate
    /end BS lies about his production
    /end thread
     
  6. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Haha I was actually gonna make a crack about that, but didn't know if it would ruffle feathers.
     
  7. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    ..... and yet the offense manged what, 18-19pts a game in those three contests?

    It's simply not good enough. Shows you how unimpactful a decent stretch of games for Tanny is to that unit. I'd even be curious how much of those were inflated by garbage times #'s vs. the Jets/Bills.

    In fact, where has he had a consistent stretch of games like that vs. the division when the season mattered and when the team was actually in the game?

    Btw, how about that defense right?! That means they are actually good and that the offense wasn't holding them back right? LOL ...... a defense that faced 21 attempts by Tom Brady. Ya, that always happens.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    It shows you that there's more to an offense and winning then the QB.
     
  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Nah, you've simply said that and not demonstrated it .... my narrative-obsessed forum friend.
     
  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Look, I have no real interest in debating Tannehill again. We all know where everyone stands at this point. No one is changing anyone's mind.

    I'll just say this, no one has said the offense and even Tannehill himself doesn't need to improve. We all know we need to score more points, but I don't agree that the main problem is Ryan Tannehill. I think he's held back by other factors. That's all I'm really saying. We'll see how it plays out.
     
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  11. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm not saying he's the main problem either. But I've long maintained he's as mediocre as the rest of them, although certainly capable of some scattered "flash" games.
     
  12. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Let's see- a below avg OL facing defenses with their ear's pinned back. That is going to be tuff for all the QBs in the league.
    Might be a better stat if the scores at those 'last 4 minutes' of each of those non-clutch performances were posted.
    Down by 10+, defenses blitzing thru our OL, DBs knocking our WR's heads off, QB running for his life, no running game used, etc.

    Can't someone be clutch earlier in the game... like on defense or saving the QB's neck. Hint... OL!
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    No, it shows it.

    When a defense gives up 30+ points a game and the QB is putting up a 97 QB rating, then its likely we aren't winning because of the defense. Its also likely there's an issue with the running game.

    I know, I know, you don't understand football so you think if the defense gives up 72 points, the offense should score 73 pts else its their fault, but, hey what can I tell you, you're wrong.

    But enough about what I have or haven't shown.....what exactly have you shown to support your stance? Oh that's right, not a goddamned thing.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah, it would be nice if the defense played better, or if both the defense AND offense (includes Tannehill) were "clutch" earlier in the game.

    But the idea that knowing the scores in those last 4 minutes would help much given the assumptions made here about our defense actually makes the stat worse for Tannehill. The assumptions here are that the defense will have probably created a bigger deficit on average than for most other teams. That means the QB should have better stats (i.e. garbage time stats) because the opposing team doesn't care as much if you score.

    Anyway, the key thing about these stats when trailing with less than 4 (or 2) minutes left is not the stats per se (regarding your first 2 sentences), but how they compare to the same stats when leading or tied. We see a huge drop-off in our case not seen with practically any other team that has a franchise QB. That's the problem.
     
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  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    The progression of moving benchmarks due to Tannehill hate.

    First, long passes went from 20+ yards to 40+ yards.
    Then, wins went from a GM stat to a HC stat to a QB stat.
    Now, clutch performance is an early game thing.
     
  16. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    yeah you are right QB's that lead their teams to the playoffs are bad LOL ...... you do entertain me!!
     
  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    To counter that argument. Did you see the play where he stared at his receiver for like 5 seconds waiting for him to get open and then it looked like the he FINALLY though oh **** I can run, and he took off for a great play with his legs. That is exactly what I see from him way too often, just locking on a guy. Why do you also think he gets the ball batted down so much. My example happens way more then yours does.
     
  18. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    If falls at the feet of both units, as there is a symbiotic relationship involved. However, not too long ago we already established the first half futility this offense has seen all season long.
     
  19. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Tannehill hate? LOL ..... I see we're back to kindergarten again on here. "You guys are haters!!!! Nyehhhh!"
     
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  20. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Tanne did quite a bit of stat padding in the 4th quarter this year to bring his rating up to 84, 5 of his 8 4th quarter TDs were garbage time not to mention a lot of yardage, or he'd be down near 75 as usual, like his 77.7 vs AFC east this year.
     
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  21. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Not surprised at all tbh.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    We've told people the problem with Tannehill's deep passes was Wallace, everyone said that wasn't true. Wallace leaves and his deep passes improve.
    We've told people his oline is the problem. His oline improves for a stretch he plays at a Top 5-10 level.
    We've told people running the ball more will help us win. We run the ball more and we win.
    We've told people he needs to be allowed to audible. He audibles we play better.

    In spite of all this, you guys NEVER change your tune. That's irrational. Hate makes people do irrational things.

    1 + 1 = 2.
     
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  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Ha, the newest one is that Tannehill needs to play better in the 4th quarter and when he does, he's just padding his stats.
     
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  24. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Oh it does alright. It convinces certain people to patrol an anonymous internet forum 24/7 in order to try to "control the narrative" about a player.
     
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  25. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    You're the one *****ing about when defenses pin their ears back vs. Tanny and now you're being completely biased in not assessing the "blowout" factor where he's passing against defenses laying off.

    Not surprised though.
     
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  26. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    We would score our 1 TD a game thing and I would feel like the game was over.
     
  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    He also goes by the assumption that his opinion is proven fact, so there's that...
     
  28. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Are the stats compared to other 'franchise QB' stats in the last 4 (or 2) minutes with a crappy OL? Franchise Brady didn't fare too well last weekend with his OL weakened, no running game and pressure. Hard to compare QB stats anyway unless you include other stats like last 4 minutes with one of leagues worst OLs and some of the worst play-calling in the league. Your stats would suck too if you called a 9 yd out on 3rd and 10... regardless of game time.
     
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  29. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Exactly, and does anyone notice that the mighty Aaron Rodgers is having difficulty lately playing behind a patchwork O.L. ? In fact, I watched this past weeks game against the Vikings and he looked downright terrible with some of his throws. One redzone interception into the endzone was an absolutely horrible throw that was easily picked off when his receiver was wide open in the corner. If Tannehill made that throw some people would be calling for his head on a silver platter. And, before anyone gets their drawers in a bunch , NO, I`m not comparing Q.B`s , I`m simply pointing out that even the elites need protection to be effective.
     
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  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I lol'd too. Apparently being clutch refers to the second quarter
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I don't hate you guys. Your steadfast adherence to BS and your childlike ability to do the forum equivalent of "lalalala I can't hear you" makes for good internet. It gives me something to do in between the dullest moments of my job. I actually thank you guys for that.
     
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  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Yup. In fact, that was specifically said earlier in case you missed it:

    .
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How are we defining "garbage time?"
     
  34. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Anytime tannehill plays well
     
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  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Priceless
     
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  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    That job must have an overwhelming amount of downtime. Are you furloughed?
     
  37. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    The argument I'm making doesn't depend on the overall level of OL play. I think we can all agree our OL is crappy, but it's crappy throughout the game. The OL isn't good when we're tied with <4 or <2 minutes left and crappy when we're trailing. It's crappy in all situations. If it's crappy in all situations, then QB stats should on average be lower across the board than league average (because the OL affects QB play), but the relative drop-offs in performance among different situations should still be around league average (based only on OL play).

    Problem is that while almost every QB sees a drop-off in performance when comparing "tied" with <4 or <2 minutes left vs. "trailing" conditions, our drop-off is abnormal relative to the average drop-off. Making the assumption the OL is crappy all the time really suggests the QB is more at fault for the drop-off than anything else. I mean, all the things that are different in "trailing" conditions happen to other teams too.
     
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  38. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Easier to just compare Brady with a decent line and without one... regardless of time of the game or day of the year.

    When our OL plays ok (regardless of time of game) Tannehill does excellent... if the play calling is at least decent.
     
  39. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    If frequent posting is a sign that someone has been furloughed, then I just want to say after reading this thread that you need to keep your chin up. 2016 is going to be a great year, man, don't you doubt it.
     
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  40. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    That would be worth doing too, but it's harder to do statistically because you don't have available stats for "good" vs. "bad" OL play as a function of game situation readily available.

    Either way, none of that invalidates the argument I'm making. You'd just have a better idea of how well different QB's play with different lines (which is very useful info of course but as I said hard to obtain).
     

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